aftermarket spin on oil filter

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http://www.ebay.com/itm/8N-Ford-Tractor-spin-on-oil-filter-adapter-NEW-/130903257231?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item1e7a71308f

If I remember correctly, the oem filter only filters about 20% of the engine oil which is the same as what this would do...is this correct? Would you guys recommend these or not?
 
Not me! Once a year when you change that spin on it will have oil running down side of engine. Does no better or worse filtering than original. Is an eye-sore. Costs money. ............but it is your money!
 
That's what I thought, JMOR, but it has been a couple years since I have been posting here when I asked the question.

Time to change the oil again. Ever since I adjusted my base timing my 8n starts within 2 seconds. I am very happy about that.

I'll probably look into adjusting that slightly ticking valve sometime in the near future. I think there is a special tool for that too. Now to find one.

Gotta love the low comp. slow rollers.
 
I bought a spin on oil filter adapter from Wix for mine. Even though the bypass filter doesn"t filter much I"ve always felt it could use more filtering. It would help extend the life of these engines. I know a guy, not sure how he did it, but he done something that he could use a Fram PH-8A on his.
 
I was working in A Ford garage when the first spin on filters came out.Service manager sold a fellow with a Ford 6 a conversion.The Ford 6 was easy to change but the V8 was a stinker.I put the conversion on.A few days later the owner called saying there was oil on the drive way.The car was towed in because of low oil.I was blamed for the oil leak. A stone had hit the corner of the filter can on the bottom.I cut open the filter and measured the can at.010.Large dent, big stone.This happened only once that was enough..The first filter cans were heavy steel.The ohv Ford engine on tractors has a filter that is often hit with sticks in the woods, roots in plowing and stone dropped from loaders.My 640 has the original filter.We have many people buying toys for their tractors.The thin wall filter has no place on a tractor.I lost the brakes on a dirt road on a car.A stone had hit the brake line right by a front wheel.The line was not rusty.
 
No spin on.Can you prove that every bit of oil Dosent go thru the filter.20% is a fable.I exspect this BS was put out by the birds selling adapters.
 
Statistically speaking, all the oil will eventually pass through either filter type......may take a year or so, but will make it. :)
 
Yes, adjustable tappets I required during rebuild.

When I said 20%, I meant 20% at best during a normal 4 or 5 gallon cycle of oil. I am a BIG believer in changing oil often and would go with synthetic but the clearances on these old flatheads are bigger than newer cars with tighter clearances. That along with sythetic likes to find it"s way between gaskets and outside the engine doesn"t appeal to me.
 
If I remember correctly, the oem filter only filters about 20% of the engine oil which is the same as what this would do

This would be the one to get as it bolts up the same and has an .062 inlet orifice .

ebay vertical spin on filter adaptor


Personally I feel 20% is generous with an .062 orifice restriction , but we have been down that road before . You have a lot of oil going other places especially if you have loose bearings .

I would not be worried about a rock hitting the oil filter , piercing the metal , losing all of your oil , and burning up your motor any more than I would worry about being hit by a meteor .

The advantage of the spin on is you can get a synthetic media filter that will filter far better than the cartridge will ever catch , especially if you use synthetic oil that suspends contaminates instead of letting them settle to the bottom .

Its your tractor and your money , personally I'll stick with the adequate oem system even though I think the spin on's are just cool .
 
(quoted from post at 07:45:28 05/08/13) No spin on.Can you prove that every bit of oil Dosent go thru the filter.20% is a fable.I exspect this BS was put out by the birds selling adapters.

Can you prove that it does ?

Semantics , you know what the OP was saying . The OEM bypass filters do not filter all of the oil pumped on each cycle the way that modern motors pump ALL of the oil through a filter an EACH cycle .
 
There is an .040 hole at the inlet of the filter can.Oil pressure would be low without it.But it seems the oil flow at 40lb pressure could be calculated and the answer found.No mention of full flow filters leaking down and no oil to the bearings until the can is full.The poor quality of some filters comes to mind.
 
There is an .040 hole at the inlet of the filter can.Oil pressure would be low without it.But it seems the oil flow at 40lb pressure could be calculated and the answer found.

[color=red:662bea9036]It is obviously not 100% like the modern systems so I stand by the "BS Myth" of 20% by using an educated guess[/color:662bea9036]

No mention of full flow filters leaking down and no oil to the bearings until the can is full.

[color=red:662bea9036]That is because we are talking about a vertical filter on an 8N with a by pass system . It would not matter if the filter was empty at start up .[/color:662bea9036]

The poor quality of some filters comes to mind.

[color=red:662bea9036]Again that is not the subject matter , we are talking FL-1A , PH-8A , and synthetic medai filters in this thread .[/color:662bea9036]
 
(quoted from post at 05:40:07 05/09/13) There is an .040 hole at the inlet of the filter can.Oil pressure would be low without it.But it seems the oil flow at 40lb pressure could be calculated and the answer found.No mention of full flow filters leaking down and no oil to the bearings until the can is full.The poor quality of some filters comes to mind.

A few months ago I did a little spreadsheet calculation on oil flow inside the flathead so I just happen to have some numbers already on hand for you to chew on. I'll be happy to provide you with a copy of the spreadsheet if you would like to verify the algorithm or play with the clearance numbers to see what happens in a worn engine:
  • [*:691286903c] The cross sectional area of the .040 orifice in the filter housing is .0013 square inches.[*:691286903c]Assuming "like new" journal oil clearances of .001 the sum total cross sectional area of the oil clearances in all of the journal bearings is .129 square inchs. That is just the flow area around the camshaft, main and rod journals and does not include oil squirt holes, wrist pins, etc.[/list:eek::691286903c] Based on those basic numbers care to hazard a guess on what percentage of the oil pumped out of the sump goes through the filter? The oil filtering system on the N-series flathead is a joke.

    TOH
 
(quoted from post at 09:56:52 05/09/13) 6 quarts every 5 minutes? :mrgreen:

I think that might be high - maybe someone that's really bored (hint) can pull the governor line off and measure the outflow. Then we wouldn't have to guess. :idea: Or does that bypass the bypass?

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 10:49:51 05/09/13)
(quoted from post at 09:56:52 05/09/13) 6 quarts every 5 minutes? :mrgreen:

I think that might be high - maybe someone that's really bored (hint) can pull the governor line off and measure the outflow. Then we wouldn't have to guess. :idea: Or does that bypass the bypass?

TOH
on't you remember?!!?? I'm disappointed! I already did that back in Nov, 2009. One pint in 25 seconds at 25PSI on gauge. But then there is always those one or two drops that may not pass that way for weeks! :wink:
 
(quoted from post at 11:40:42 05/09/13)
(quoted from post at 10:49:51 05/09/13)
(quoted from post at 09:56:52 05/09/13) 6 quarts every 5 minutes? :mrgreen:

I think that might be high - maybe someone that's really bored (hint) can pull the governor line off and measure the outflow. Then we wouldn't have to guess. :idea: Or does that bypass the bypass?

TOH
on't you remember?!!?? I'm disappointed! I already did that back in Nov, 2009. One pint in 25 seconds at 25PSI on gauge. But then there is always those one or two drops that may not pass that way for weeks! :wink:

I remember you doing some tests but I thought that was on the inbound side. I got to start writing this stuff down. Of course I'd forget where I put the list.... :roll:

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 12:12:12 05/09/13)
(quoted from post at 11:40:42 05/09/13)
(quoted from post at 10:49:51 05/09/13)
(quoted from post at 09:56:52 05/09/13) 6 quarts every 5 minutes? :mrgreen:

I think that might be high - maybe someone that's really bored (hint) can pull the governor line off and measure the outflow. Then we wouldn't have to guess. :idea: Or does that bypass the bypass?

TOH
on't you remember?!!?? I'm disappointed! I already did that back in Nov, 2009. One pint in 25 seconds at 25PSI on gauge. But then there is always those one or two drops that may not pass that way for weeks! :wink:

I remember you doing some tests but I thought that was on the inbound side. I got to start writing this stuff down. Of course I'd forget where I put the list.... :roll:

TOH
id that, too. Inbound (before the 0.059 orifice), one pint in 5 seconds @20PSI. All were measured at WFO.
 
  • [*:eaa5705e83] The cross sectional area of the .040 orifice in the filter housing is .0013 square inches.[*:eaa5705e83]Assuming "like new" journal oil clearances of .001 the sum total cross sectional area of the oil clearances in all of the journal bearings is .129 square inchs.
    [/list:eek::eaa5705e83]
    Based on those basic numbers care to hazard a guess on what percentage of the oil pumped out of the sump goes through the filter? The oil filtering system on the N-series flathead is a joke.

    TOH



  • Please correct me if I am wrong , if we adjust the cross section to .059 and get about .011 square inches we would still be under 10% on a tight motor ? So I would assume about 5% on the average working motor .
 
(quoted from post at 21:06:26 05/09/13)
  • [*:f401d8caa7] The cross sectional area of the .040 orifice in the filter housing is .0013 square inches.[*:f401d8caa7]Assuming "like new" journal oil clearances of .001 the sum total cross sectional area of the oil clearances in all of the journal bearings is .129 square inchs.
    [/list:eek::f401d8caa7]
    Based on those basic numbers care to hazard a guess on what percentage of the oil pumped out of the sump goes through the filter? The oil filtering system on the N-series flathead is a joke.

    TOH



  • Please correct me if I am wrong , if we adjust the cross section to .059 and get about .011 square inches we would still be under 10% on a tight motor ? So I would assume about 5% on the average working motor .
  • nd...........your point is??????????
 
Now we have to find which drops didnt get through the filter.Quart a minute aint bad.Same system was used on Ford cars and trucks 1940 to 1953,must have worked.Now where are the 20% turkeys hiding?I have had a JD H running for a long time with the gas line disconnected.Not just on the gas in the bowl.Had to pull the ignition wires to stop it.
 
(quoted from post at 05:14:17 05/10/13) Now we have to find which drops didnt get through the filter.Quart a minute aint bad.Same system was used on Ford cars and trucks 1940 to 1953,must have worked.Now where are the 20% turkeys hiding?I have had a JD H running for a long time with the gas line disconnected.Not just on the gas in the bowl.Had to pull the ignition wires to stop it.

It "works" just not very well. The N-series oil pump produces several GALLONS per minute so we are back to that 20% or less number. Typical flow rate on a full flow filter is 10 gallons per minute.

TOH
 
And...........your point is??????????
I was not trying to make a point . You and TOH have spent some time and effort on the subjet and I was trying to see if I understood it correctly . I trust your judgement , so if one of Y'all officially verify the 10% then I would accept it as a fact .
 
(quoted from post at 09:40:31 05/10/13)
And...........your point is??????????
I was not trying to make a point . You and TOH have spent some time and effort on the subjet and I was trying to see if I understood it correctly . I trust your judgement , so if one of Y'all officially verify the 10% then I would accept it as a fact .

"Officially" verify? All I can say is Jesse has measured the flow through the filter at 1/4 GPM. The pump produces 2+ GPM. The math is pretty simple - .25/2 = 12.5% or less.

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 10:06:52 05/10/13)
(quoted from post at 09:40:31 05/10/13)
And...........your point is??????????
I was not trying to make a point . You and TOH have spent some time and effort on the subjet and I was trying to see if I understood it correctly . I trust your judgement , so if one of Y'all officially verify the 10% then I would accept it as a fact .

"Officially" verify? All I can say is Jesse has measured the flow through the filter at 1/4 GPM. The pump produces 2+ GPM. The math is pretty simple - .25/2 = 12.5% or less.

TOH

Opinions very but some actual testing by reliable sources make it "Tractor board Official"
 
(quoted from post at 09:40:31 05/10/13)
And...........your point is??????????
I was not trying to make a point . You and TOH have spent some time and effort on the subjet and I was trying to see if I understood it correctly . I trust your judgement , so if one of Y'all officially verify the 10% then I would accept it as a fact .
guess that maybe that sounded a bit 'smart-A', but that wasn't the intent. Intent was that I believe that we have sort of lost the fox with all the percentages. As has been pointed out early on in thread, ALL of the oil gets filtered......the percentage of total flow going through the filter simply equates to 'how long' a time period will be necessary for all the 6 quarts to be filtered. As to what that exact percentage is, I can't tell yo, because I don't know the clearances, oil pump condition, etc. in any given engine. TOH spread sheet analysis begins will a set of reasonable clearances and your ratio analysis holds water. too. Since I have measured the filter flow volume per unit time on one 8N, IF, I knew the pump volume per unit time on that same tractor at same RPM, then I would know that percentage number........but you see the 'IF'. Based on all the factual info that I have seen, I would feel safe with numbers in the maybe 5 to 20 percent range, which means that in order to get ALL the oil filtered, then we need to operate for a longer period of time if 5% than if 20%. Or stated another way, the more worn out you engine is, the longer you need to operate it to get all the oil filtered. Nothing here of great importance as I see it, since without an engine oil system re-design to make it a full flow system, such as later NAA, hundred series, etc., then there is not really much anyone can do to improve the system.....as I see it. Full flow is only way to ensure that all oil supplied to bearings is passed through the filter immediately before reaching bearings. Contrast that with a no filter system, where all oil supplied to bearings is pulled from the sump, unfiltered. Or with the bypass system where all oil supplied to bearings is pulled from the sump, where over time, little by little, the sump volume has been filtered, but at any given instant, there is unfiltered oil returning to the sump & being supplied to the bearings......sometime in the future, it too will get a chance to be filtered. :) Feel free to disagree......its only an opinion.
 
You dont have to filter oil that fast.Ford cars and trucks didnt get oil filters until 1940.They were an option.The Model A ran with no pressure on the rods, just had dippers that scooped oil from a tray in the oil pan.Primitive but it worked.My 6 volt tractor starts fine, why should I spend money on 12 volt conversion?
 
There are times when you can get too much information on a subject.In electronics practical demonstration was better than theory.I have never seen an electron but sure have felt them.Has anyone run a flow test on the Franz toilet paper filter?
 
(quoted from post at 08:03:51 05/16/13) There are times when you can get too much information on a subject.In electronics practical demonstration was better than theory.I have never seen an electron but sure have felt them.Has anyone run a flow test on the Franz toilet paper filter?
ow you up & did it! That made me realize that I need to find the toilet! :shock:
 

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