electronic ignition conversion

i was thinking about swapping my 1940 ford 9n over to electronic ignition. is it worth spending the money or not? any thoughts are greatly appreciated. thanks in advance
 
I would not do so. A good set pf points can and will last a decade plus for what they cost you can buy a heck of a lot of good brand points.
 
yummy.. a (possibly) few hundred dollar answer to a 20$ question.

Here's the deal. you are gonna get a few posts each way.

at least one person will tell you that electronic ignition is the only option. world can't rotate ithout it. will add horsepower, guarantee your machine to start in any conditions no matter what, make it an all around mor e reliable tractor. probably restore hair and testosterone , help you loose weight and repair your credit and lower your cholesterol....and other claims that probably aren't true or can not be verified.

On the flip side there are those that simply don't like new tech and won't move forward at all.

here's the middle ground for you and your mechaninc, your wallet, and your skillset to decide.

1, it's a front mountsystem. it has a few issues that always tend to add complication for some.. especially those that aren't particularly clever or andy, or good around any kind of things that involve moving electrons.

2, IF you are going to go EI on a front mount then i suggest that you:

a, start out with a fully functional system that starts and runs good on points, and then go from there. nothing like being arms deep into a non starting project already.. and then complicate it by totally changing the ignition system.

b, convert to a 12v system .. preferably using a gm 10/12si 3 wire alt. and get that and the battery and a new harness in palce and operational. reason for this is. 6v front mount ei is cheesy at best.

3, ok.. you got the alt, and new bat. she starts and charges on 12v and points. runs good, no issues, and you still have 100-200$ to blow. ( and you want a lil more hair and less cholesterol ). go get the 12v ei.. and get the kit that eliminates the square coil and lets you use a real true round coil.

that gets you away from any need for a resistor inthe system.

ei, 12v coil.. etc.

once you get all that in and instaleld and paid for.. you will be pretty good.

PS.. premium set of pints cost about 20$... Many of us that atually clean our ignition tools and check gap onece in a while and are otherwise average or better on maint.. can keep a set of those premium points going for years or decades.

I've got points going over 10ys now.

at that rate.. I'd have to live another 50-100 years to break even on the cost of installing just the basic ei.. not to mentiont he other stuff.

if you count converting all to 12v and whatnot and the ei. I'd probably have to make it another 100-200 years to recoup the conversion and bat and alternator costs, and then get past the break veen number.. :)


so yeah. if you want it.. go for it. don't handicap yourself on a 6v front mount ei. go 12v and ei. start with a running tractor.. and end with one so you aren't troubleshooting 2-3 problems at one time.

nothing like taking a running trator.. converting .. not having charging or ignitin work.. andhave 100-300$ tied up in it.

those ar ethe bare facts.

I'm an engineer.

I have both points and ei systems.

I know how to build and maintain both systems.
 
Is it worth the money? Most likely not. However, the Ford N tractor front mount distributor is getting to be a rare beast. Good points, rotor, cap, 6 volt regulators and 6 volt batteries are getting harder to find. If your tractor is running good or only needs points then get a set of Blue Streak points. You should be good for years. If you have 6 volt generator/regulator problems and need to replace some parts you may wish to consider converting to a 12 volt alternator. It will cost a little more but replacement parts and batteries are available at any car parts store. If your tractor has a 12 volt system and you have some extra money EI works great. I have converted all three of my 8 N's to 12 volts. One of my 1949 8N front mounts has EI. All start great. All run great except the EI runs a little smoother. I have purchased three tractors when I only need one. I have rebuilt all three at a cost of $3K+ each. It is a hobby not a business. None of the expenditures I have made on my Ford 8 N hobby was worth it in terms what I could get back if I sold any of them. Its your money and your tractor. Spend your money the way you want and do whatever you want with your tractor. Have some fun. Its a hobby.
 
I did the ei 6 volt conversion....ram good for a few days...then erratic. I returned the kit and went back to points. I figured that with poits I would be less likely to get stranded.
 
I recommend EI.
I put it in one of my tractors and did not have to touch the distributer again for 7 years. I sold the tractor and it is still running on it 1 1/2 years later.
I think the engine started faster - especially in very cold temps - and ran better.
You will find this board is very much anti EI - for some reason, even though there hasn't been an engine built that has points for most of 20 years. Not in an auto, outboard motor, lawn tractor, Briggs or Honda stationary engine, motorcycle, snowmobile, 4 wheeler or anything else that is a gasser. There is a reason for that.
Ei is more reliable, more fuel efficient and requires ZERO maintenance.
One thing I would suggest however is that even though they do make an EI kit for 6V positive ground I would not buy it. But if you have already converted to 12V negative ground and you like the idea of "set it and forget it" then EI is definately the way to go.
 
there you go Doggy........recommending a technically challenging installation to electrical neubie. You are recommending a $150 electronic ignition ...and... a $150 12V-alternator conversion just to save $20 on points for the weird 4-nipple frontmount dizzy. And you know yer 5-nipple ignition is NOT the same as the 4-nipple frontmount dizzy.

And you can't B-S me about electronic ignition. I scratch built my first EI in 1963 for my 1956 Dodge D-500 Hemi. I also have a CD ignition for my 7000rpm semi-race 165hp dyno'd 1969 BMW 2002. ........respectfully, Dell retired Electronics Engineer
 
And there you go Dell.
Recommending to an electrically challenged newbie that he keep his same antiquated charging and sparkie systems that need constant maintenance and are not as reliable as modern stuff.
And to top it off you have inflated the price on both items since EI for a front mount can be had <a href="http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Ford-8N_Electronic-Ignition-Conversion-Kit-12-volt-negative-ground_1247.html" target="_blank">From this site for about a C note.</a>
A 10si alternator can be had from any auto parts store for about $50 and a 12V battery for about $50.
I recommend he just take it to a ma and pa type shop and spend the extra $100 and have it done.
Then he will likely Never touch his electrical system between battery changes.
Plus he'd have all of the extra benefits of 12V which you with your engineering background can explain better than I.
Of course if everyone did this it would put you out of a job since you seem to think everybody should embrace the learning curve needed to keep it original.
Jerry,
(With a worthless degree in literature who doesn't like messing with automotive electrics if there is a better way)
 
(quoted from post at 00:12:39 05/07/13) I recommend EI.
I put it in one of my tractors and did not have to touch the distributer again for 7 years. I sold the tractor and it is still running on it 1 1/2 years later.
I think the engine started faster - especially in very cold temps - and ran better.
You will find this board is very much anti EI - for some reason, even though there hasn't been an engine built that has points for most of 20 years. Not in an auto, outboard motor, lawn tractor, Briggs or Honda stationary engine, motorcycle, snowmobile, 4 wheeler or anything else that is a gasser. There is a reason for that.
Ei is more reliable, more fuel efficient and requires ZERO maintenance.
One thing I would suggest however is that even though they do make an EI kit for 6V positive ground I would not buy it. But if you have already converted to 12V negative ground and you like the idea of "set it and forget it" then EI is definately the way to go.

Whut he said he's not skeered and neither am I... I figure as the supply of know good parts dwindle away folks will learn how much EZ'er EI and 12Vs are over a less desirable OEM 6V system... EI does work with 6V either polarity its a myth it does not work well...

EI may be a struggle for some,,, even a points set up is,,, EI will suffer from the same symptoms a points system does.. It would not make me mad if I never see carbs are points again I am addicted to EI and EFI...
 
Jeeze Jerry........the original poster asked a question about whether it was financial worth it. So I quoted a few $$$ off'n the top of my head and yer reaming me fer it. The point I was trying to make $20 points will last at least 5-yrs. And while 12V conversions really help start semi-wornout low compression engines, so will 6-volts start low compression engines. And comparing yer OHV 851 to flathead 4-nipple dizzy ain't even in the same ballpark. ........respectfully, Dell who is NOT anti-electronic ignition
 
I didn't pick this fight Dell.
You did by naysaying my recommendation that he convert.
The truth of it is that every time the topics of points vs EI or 6V vs 12V come up you weigh in with your "EZ starting 6V 8N" and your knowing "8 different ways to convert to 12V and every one of them work right the first time" and your tried and true method of taking a clean, crisp dollar and "wipe off the invisible corrosion between the points" and your "retired Boeing electronics engineer" stuff.
This time you just added the hyperinflated prices.
All of it is said to keep the newbie's tractor original and get him on your learning curve.
Now I will give you credit for being a good teacher and for your altruism in helping the folks who just want their tractors to run.
But I happen to think there is a better way for the electrically challenged and have been around here long enough to not care for some of the "prevailing wisdom".
I happen to think that more people would be better served by converting.
And I realize that $400 is a small sum for a spanking, modern electrical system - especially when we daily see how much dough some guys spend on their restovations.
So I voice my opinion - and invariably catch some flak for it.
Perhaps you aren't anti EI.
But you do your best to muffle anyone who advocates anything other than original.
And round and round it goes...
 

All I got was a free guru patch how many post does it take to get them degrees... Is a degree sum'n if you don't use it you lose it I keep hearing this other guy say the navy gave him one but he forgot it... :D
 
...over to electronic ignition. is it worth spending the money or not?

Just the EI module is $100 and I would not recommend the "Kit' , gut your own coil and add a bullet proof round can .

Some of the Nurses at work drink Keurig coffee at a buck a cup because they enjoy it , I'll stick with the free stuff . I installed an EI because I enjoy no longer having to replacing a set of points that start sputtering at an inconvenient time . I also do not enjoy pulling a front mount distributor , I know it ain't hard but I would rather spend my time working on something else .

EI won't solve your problems but they may keep you from having any . Your money - your call .
 

Dells got more post that you I bet he gets to drank free..

I think I can figure out how to get one I need to post more "Whut he said post"...
 
While I won't give my opinion either way, I DO wish I had the option to "LIKE" some of these posts....

Flat out entertaining to read and there is no way to express my delight!!! :)
 
Hi William-
Lotsa good advice here and also some biased opinions and incorrect information. I often run across N-owners who want to do an EI switch because they are having problems with their current setup and A) the tractor won't start, or B) the tractor won't charge, or C) the tractor runs for a while then quits. The thinking is to just go to a an EI system and all problems will be eliminated. Here's what I think...

First, how often do you use your tractor? If it is not a worker, don't invest in EI. You say you have a 1940 9N, Those are becoming more and more collectors items. You may have some rare parts on yours that would make a full restoration project more worth the investment.

Secondly, as mentioned, if you have a working tractor, I would go to a 12V system at least, maybe EI if I used it everyday. FWIW I have an early '48 8N still original 6V system that I maintain correctly, and is a working tractor, but I will get her gussied up on occasion and take her out to local shows.

Next, if EI is the way you want to go, heed the advice here and make sure it is already in good running condition before you start converting. As I said earlier, I see many fellas with tractor issues figurin' a 12V conversion or EI conversion will fix all issues when in reality the true root cause of their problems lies elsewhere like in fuel and carb system, charging system, bad wiring, bad switch, or ignition -no spark.

Lastly, I have never done an EI conversion so I cannot say whether the investment is worth it or not, but if you are having starting issues now, you need to do a logical systematic problem solving procedure to dig to the root cause.

Most starter/alternator shops will bench test your components for FREE. Take your generator, ammeter. coil, battery, and voltage regulator or cutout to them and start there. Polarizing your generator whenever the battery has been disconnected then reconnected is mandatory. Always hook up the battery last after mucking with electronics. There are procedures you can do yourself to test components as well.

Hope this helps

Tim Daley(MI)
 
William, I converted my 8N to 12v neg. and EI. I bought the kits from Y/T and they send directions. FOLLOW the directions exactly and it's not to hard to get it right. My tractor starts great in all weather. As to the cost, you have make that call. It's your money. I don't regret it. My tractor works (90 acres) this year. So, what do you think, would the investment be worth it to you?
 
where are you getting 50$ batteries that aren't lawn tractor batteries?

( and I'm not doubting you.. i'm asking )

around here, between napa, car quest, auto zone, and discount auto, nad now oreilies.. a small car 12v battery is in the 65$ range.

walmart beats all of them by about 2 bucks on the low end.

a better universal sized truck battery is a whopping 89$

that's the size battery that fully fits all my 00/01 bat trays.. so it's what i buy on my converted machines. has the side benefit in that i can swap them in and outta my diesiel pickup truck ( 2 batteries ) to trade out during the winter so the bats don't just set there.

at work we are an interstate dealer and it's still 79$ for a 'truck' sized megatron.

we used to have a champion battery dealer nearby.. and those IMHO were a lil cheaper than walmart 'yellow' grade bats.

can't find them no more. where are you getting them?


no dekka dealers here either.

locally i can find 10/12 si alts for 29-35$ with a 10-15$ fore.. for a median price of 45$ + tax.. so the 50$ is about bang on for a 10si.

having a core on hand is helpfull. I've managed to grab a few free cores that i have seen set out at the dump... so that will save me 10-15$ if i need another'n.
 
I'm a firm believer in 12v and EI in all my 4cyl gas tractors.
12v immediately when I drag them home.
(even if it's just a 12v battery and a quick direct wiring job,
alternator later.......til then, battery tender)
EI goes in when I go thru the ignition.
The price gap between points and EI is closing.
$75 for the last one I bought.
They all will get a no-resistor round coil regardless,
so that cost is a given anyway.
One thing I don't see mentioned is that when
it is running good, a 12v 4cyl gas tractor with EI or points,
will start easily and function just fine with a $19 on sale
lawn tractor battery.
1/4" bolt with a wingnut makes a handy battery disconnect on those too.
4 of my tractors have lawn tractor cheapo batteries, work fine
 

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