Author	[Modern View]
kylemorley 03-03-2013 09:01:14 96.61.82.205 Report to Moderator	I would like to hook up a hydraulic cylinder to the internal hydraulics on my 8n via the test port. Looking over the manuals and parts books for some of the old manure buckets that did this, there is a dearth of details as to how it is done. I know you have to chain the lift, but I am not sure why. And is another valve needed, or once the lift is chained will the 3pt lever control the cylinder? Some of the buckets seem to have just a really crude needle valve on the line from the port to the single action cylinders. Is this used for control or just adjustment? Also, anyone know what would I need to run a double acting cylinder of the internal hydraulics? [Reply]   [No Email]
R Geiger 03-03-2013 18:35:08 50.39.135.182 Report to Moderator	Re: External cylinder running of internal hydraulics? in reply to Dell (WA), 03-03-2013 09:01:14   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see If the 3 pt is unchained and the arms down, If you open the valve to the loader the bucket will lower. Will not go back up until you chain the arms back down. and like TOH says. [Reply]  [No Email]
kylemorley 03-03-2013 16:13:45 96.61.82.205 Report to Moderator	Re: External cylinder running of internal hydraulics? in reply to kylemorley, 03-03-2013 09:01:14   So with the manure bucket you'd use the 3 pt lift lever to raise and lower the bucket, then use the needle valve to lock the bucket up while you went back and unchained the arms if you should need to use the 3 point? If so, would the bucket lower just by opening the needle valve, or would it be necessary to rechain the arms so you could lower it using the 3 point lever? [Reply]  [No Email]
TheOldHokie 03-03-2013 16:59:17 71.176.184.109 Report to Moderator	Re: External cylinder running of internal hydraulics? in reply to kylemorley, 03-03-2013 16:13:45   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see If you open the "needlevalve" with the 3pt control in the raised position and a raised load on both the 3pt and the loader the heaviest load wins If the 3pt load is less than the load in the loader bucket the lift arms will go to the top and the the loader will drop. If the load on the 3pt is greater than the load in the bucket the loader will go to the top and the lift arms will drop. Trying to use both at the same time without a modification to the top cover and external control valves is an exercise in frustration and can get downright dangerous - easy to accidentally drop a load. TOH [Reply]  [No Email]
R Geiger 03-03-2013 11:56:38 50.39.135.182 Report to Moderator	Re: External cylinder running of internal hydraulics? in reply to R Geiger, 03-03-2013 09:01:14   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see And yet that little cylinder was enough to bend your upper arms like a pretzel! :lol: [Reply]  [No Email]
notjustair 03-03-2013 15:47:08 174.229.65.203 Report to Moderator	Re: External cylinder running of internal hydraulics? in reply to R Geiger, 03-03-2013 11:56:38   It was kind of funny to look at those bent arms. It didn't happen fast just sort of over time. I will bet the amount of weight we put in that loader all the time didnt help. Weird thing was that they didn't bend evenly. We replaced one and then the other about 5 years later. Made it hell to level the mower and blade. [Reply]  [No Email]
TheOldHokie 03-03-2013 16:48:15 71.176.184.109 Report to Moderator	Re: External cylinder running of internal hydraulics? in reply to notjustair, 03-03-2013 15:47:08   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see The maximum bending force that can be generated on the chained lift arms is 1500 PSI x the area of the 3pt lift cylinder. The relief valve won't let the hydraulic pressure exceed that limit regardless of where the load to be lifted is located. The N-series lift arms are simply a tad under designed for the loads the hydraulic system can lift. Prolonged lifting of a heavy implement on the rear will bend them just the same as prolonged lifting of heavy loads in a loader bucket. TOH [Reply]  [No Email]
Notjustair 03-03-2013 10:41:49 174.229.65.203 Report to Moderator	Re: External cylinder running of internal hydraulics? in reply to kylemorley, 03-03-2013 09:01:14   We ran an 8N that way for about 20 years. We eventually got to replace both upper arms as then had bent like a pretzel over time from being chained to the trumpets. I don't recall the wagner loader being slow, but I would sure be adding on a live pump if I did it now days. If you have ever had that top cover off you know you are not going to get much out of that little cylinder. Works great for three point, but that is about its sweet spot. [Reply]  [No Email]
TheOldHokie 03-03-2013 10:27:38 71.176.184.109 Report to Moderator	Re: External cylinder running of internal hydraulics? in reply to kylemorley, 03-03-2013 09:01:14   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see There is a dearth of details only if you look in the wrong places ;-) I know you have to chain the lift, but I am not sure why Because if you don't as soon as the pressure in the system starts to rise the lift arms will come to the top and shut the pump off. It's a feature required by the design of teh internal pump :roll: And is another valve needed, or once the lift is chained will the 3pt lever control the cylinder? The quadrant control can be used to operate a single acting cylinder. Also, anyone know what would I need to run a double acting cylinder of the internal hydraulics? You would need to connect the test port to an external opencenter DA control valve and the return line from the DA valve to the sump. Then chain the lift arms down and raise the quadrant lever. The control valve is now receiving the full flow from the tractor hydrauilic system and can be used to operate the cylinder. I have built lots of these systems and I can provide you with more information than you probably want. The pictures below are just a sampling of the things I've done for different people. In brief your options are Chain the lift down and do it tthe "old fashion" way with the puny internal pump Modify the top cover as shown in the top 4 pictures, add the appropriate vlaves, and you won't need the chains but you still have the puny flow rate from the internal pump Add a modern external pump and go modern with live hydraulics and/or real remotes as shown in the last 3 picture TOH 301.655.0631 (EST) oldhokie@verizon.net [Reply]  [No Email]
tachnem 03-04-2013 14:14:17 170.215.159.118 Report to Moderator	Re: External cylinder running of internal hydraulics? in reply to TheOldHokie, 03-03-2013 10:27:38   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Do you sell the fill plug return port fitting? Looks great! [Reply]  [No Email]
TheOldHokie 03-04-2013 15:27:21 71.176.184.109 Report to Moderator	Re: External cylinder running of internal hydraulics? in reply to tachnem, 03-04-2013 14:14:17   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Thanks - they are new steel toe Red Wing boots TOOH bought me for Xmas and the fit as good as they look ;-) I sell any individual item you want. TOH [Reply]  [No Email]
R Geiger 03-03-2013 10:17:23 50.39.135.182 Report to Moderator	Re: External cylinder running of internal hydraulics? in reply to old, 03-03-2013 09:01:14   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see I have a single action loader running off of the test port. Pipe fittings to top of trans area and shutoff valve there where I attach the hose to the loader ram. I can shut off the valve, which holds up the loader which then allows me to use the three point. mine is just single action cylinder. [Reply]  [No Email]
old 03-03-2013 10:01:19 209.86.226.19 Report to Moderator	Re: External cylinder running of internal hydraulics? in reply to kylemorley, 03-03-2013 09:01:14   To work a single acting cylinder you can just run a hose for the test port to the cylinder and chain the 3 point arms down. Inside the 3 point is a sort of shut off so when the arms are all the way up it shits of the flow to the cylinder and test port so that is why you have the chain the arms down. To run a 2 way cylinder you have to add a control valve tie the 3 point arms down and then have the 3 point lift control set to lift all the time. Either way yes it will work but not well and also very slow [Reply]  [No Email]