Bad Day for my 8N

Howdy all,

Woke up to 6" of the white stuff this morning. So I fired up my 49 8N and let it warm up while I cleared the cars and front deck. I hoped on and drove toward the street and she started to sputter. I Turned around to head down the drive and she died. Now my tractor was half on the drive and half in the street. I had to get it off the street before the snow plow came a blazin by. It was still dark out too. I checked for spark using an old plug a keep around for just such an occasion and nothing. No sparkie. BTW it has a 12 V conversion with Electronic Ignition. I had to figure out how to get the tractor off the street so in desperation I unhooked the starter wire from the push button switch and cranked the starter while the tractor was in 1 st gear. I successfully moved the tractor off the street but now my starter only goes click click when I hit the button. I probably smoked it huh. I can't do any more diagnosing since I cant get the engine to turn over. So I guess it's first things first. A new starter is in my future.

Hec
 
'Click, click' usually means low battery! Charge the battery and see what happens. May have been the cause of no spark also.
 
Use a jumper cable from the battery + to the starter since it is - ground. BE sure it is out of gear. If it spins over then you have a bad solenoid. Next try a hot wire from the + side of the battery to the coil and do the jumper thing. If it fires up then you have a problem from the coil back to the battery. By the way since this is a front mount do not leave the hot wire hooked up a long time or you may fry the coil but at least that might be enough to get it back to where it would be easy to work on
 
Old,

Thanks for the trouble shooting tips. I will try that when I get home. At least there is no new snow predicted here for the near future!

Hec
 
the bendix is likely hung in the ring gear since you use the starter to motor it off the road. loosent he starter a bit then rockt he back tires while in 4th gear.. then give her a try.

do , however, check ytour electrical connections.. especially ground starp. remember .. both sides.

as for the ei failure.. Ultradog may be along in a while to help, he really likes the ei modules.. otherwise.. time to call tech support and check out the warranty.. or buy a new one. or put your old breaker plate and points back in and be able to use your tractor in the mean time..

soundguy
 
Sound Guy,

Thanks man! The starter was cranking and moving the tractor forward when it stopped moving forward. Makes sense. Keep ya all posted!

Hec
 
since it never started and was thus never thrown back, one can assume it's still 'dating' the ring gear..
 
With heavy wet snow plus a warm engine and radiator, you may have kicked some water into the dist cap. I have had this happen in our "warmer" winter weather. The water may follow the sides of the coil past a bad spot in the upper dist cap gasket, and "poof" the tractor engine kills. The same thing will happen if the antifreeze overflows a bit. So pull the dist cap off and check for any moisture inside.

And the other guys are right about checking the starter, as it is probably still engaged into the flywheel ring gear. I doubt that your EI has been fried if it was working reliably before. Don't put too much force on the starter if it is still engaged, you can break out the sleeve bearing in the starter's end plate on the bendix side. The end plate is aluminum and I have seen a number of them broken. Loosen the starter bolts and wiggle it real good while rocking the tractor in gear.

Paul in MN
 
Soundguy,

I got home and loosened the starter bolts. I wiggled the starter around and it seemed free. I wasn"t able to move the tires back in forth while in fourth gear due to my loader bucket and rear snow blower laying on the ground. I tightened the starter back up and hit the starter button and she cranked! I tried it a second time and got the click click again. I repeated loosening the starter and still have the click click. When it did crank it was cranking really slow. The battery is 100 charged up. BTW the battery is only a couple of months old. What do you think?

Hec
 
SoundGuy also mentioned checking the connections to it.
That is what I would check before assuming the starter was bad.
Moving the tractor with the starter draws a lot of current.
Once you have them all clean, shiny and tight if it still rolls slowly
you may want to have the starter tested.
 
The "click" "click" can be the sound of a low battery as others have suggested, but it can also the be sound of an incomplete circuit. Since you pulled the starter already, you might have introduced a short at the bell housing. Make sure that surface is clean. Maybe there's even some ice in there, preventing good surface contact.

Before you think that the health of the starter is in question, try jumping directly to the starter. Your battery may have less juice than you think.

Good luck!

Colin, MN
 
(quoted from post at 20:14:56 01/30/13) Howdy all,

Woke up to 6" of the white stuff this morning. So I fired up my 49 8N and let it warm up while I cleared the cars and front deck. I hoped on and drove toward the street and she started to sputter. I Turned around to head down the drive and she died. Now my tractor was half on the drive and half in the street. I had to get it off the street before the snow plow came a blazin by. It was still dark out too. I checked for spark using an old plug a keep around for just such an occasion and nothing. No sparkie. BTW it has a 12 V conversion with Electronic Ignition. I had to figure out how to get the tractor off the street so in desperation I unhooked the starter wire from the push button switch and cranked the starter while the tractor was in 1 st gear. I successfully moved the tractor off the street but now my starter only goes click click when I hit the button. I probably smoked it huh. I can't do any more diagnosing since I cant get the engine to turn over. So I guess it's first things first. A new starter is in my future.

Hec

Some valuable info is needed,,,, what dose your amp meter read :?:

Get'er to crank the EI thang-a-ma-jig should be no problem to diagnois but we need to know what yer AMP! gauge is reading at the time of the clicker noise...
 
IF the battery IS charged and it cranked slow.. then you got bad cables.. bad clamps, bad wires, bad ground, or corrosion at starter mount.

something in the line is preventing current flow.
 
Hobo,

When I hit the starter button my amp meter barely moves. It moves more if I turn on the lights compared to when only the solenoid is clicking. I have new battery cables that are Size 1 gage. I installed them about 2 months ago. When I installed them I wire wheeled every connection to shiny metal. I am getting a solid 12.5 V measured at the positive batt connection at the solenoid. I don"t think its a connection although I will check. The starter worked perfectly that morning to start the tractor and then to move the dead tractor about 50 feet onto my drive. After that nothing. I will try the moving the Batt positive connection to the other side of the solenoid and see what that does.

Hec
 
I have Electronic ignition on my 8N as well. It gets wet, dies. Nature of the beast. Dunno why or how moisture upsets it. Makes plowing snow difficult since I have to wait for the storm to be over instead of staying on top of it. Not sure if a side mount wouldn"t have the same issue or not.
 
(quoted from post at 19:18:16 01/31/13) Hobo,

When I hit the starter button my amp meter barely moves. It moves more if I turn on the lights compared to when only the solenoid is clicking. I have new battery cables that are Size 1 gage. I installed them about 2 months ago. When I installed them I wire wheeled every connection to shiny metal. I am getting a solid 12.5 V measured at the positive batt connection at the solenoid. I don"t think its a connection although I will check. The starter worked perfectly that morning to start the tractor and then to move the dead tractor about 50 feet onto my drive. After that nothing. I will try the moving the Batt positive connection to the other side of the solenoid and see what that does.

Hec

Just as I thought that proves the amp meter useless unless the amp meters lubbers can tell you how that useless amp meter can help you on your no crank...

Try a voltmeter and report your findings... While not trying to crank and trying to crank... If voltage stays at 12.6 either way Google voltage drop testing...
 
Hec.......Hobo's right, amp-meter don't tell you 'nuttin' about magic solid state electronic ignition. (its the way xstr ign is wired) Unfortunately, xstr ign either works or it don't and when it don't, its time to replace the $150 magic points. You doubt? Call Pertronix and complain. 4-nipple dizzy's don't like Pertronix modules. The module wiring don't like the cork water proofing gaskets. And sparkies don't like moisture inside the 4-nipple cap.

As fer using yer starter motor to move yer tractor outta the driveway, good thinking. Now yer starter drive is stuck in yer flywheel ring. Just loosen yer 2-LONG screws a little bitt and wobble yer starter motor and that should release the binding pressure. (remember to re-tighten) Using yer starter motor to move yer tractor should NOT burn yer starter motor up. (unless you ran it for 5-minutes) ........Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister
 
Moisture is a ign killer. If ya have cold moist air the 1st place to address starting or running problems is the cap and rotor as it gets condensation inside.Remove cap and take a hair dryer to the inside of the cap and rotor. Its not always the problem but its my starting point.
 
Dell,

Thanks for the input. I haven't worked on it today. Too Darn cold outside. Its 5 degrees adn windy! I will work on it this weekend. Should be in the 30's to 40's. I am thinking I may have smoked the solenoid. I only cranked it for about 30 seconds at a time then waited a couple of mins and cranked her again. I was heading down a gentle slope so I would get the tractor rolling with the starter, then hold the clutch in till she stopped. I'll keep everyone posted. As for the ignition issues I am betting its my ignition switch. I will jump the switch and see what happens after I get the tractor cranking.

Hec
 

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