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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

FEL Suddenly dropped under load ??

Author  [Modern View]
Mr. T. Minnesota

01-11-2013 10:55:10
68.170.114.158



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Forum Members,
Is it Friday the 13th?? I am trying to load wood into the basement before the north winds blow tonight. The hydraulics have been acting up but nothing major. Now the lever to lift is not cooperating. What is my first move. Any and all help will be appreciated. Could it be the lever has come disengaged from the intake and outlet valves?
I went through the pump this summer and it is clean.
Mr. T. Minnesota

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soundguy

01-11-2013 19:19:04
107.41.102.121



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to Mr. T. Minnesota, 01-11-2013 10:55:10  
if 8n.. see if the valve moves in and out as arm moves from top... if 9n/2n, see if fork is off.. or if T-valve moves in and out



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Mr. T. Minnesota

01-11-2013 19:46:03
68.170.114.158



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to soundguy, 01-11-2013 19:19:04  
SG,
This evening I did a complete running check, removal and reinstall of the pump, but to no avail?? Is there anything on the upper mechanism that could snap? The three point lift arms are not operating either. They used to move some before the FEL arms would move, not now.
Any other thoughts or ideas are appreciated.
Mr. T. Minnesota



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old

01-11-2013 19:55:08
209.86.226.34



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to Mr. T. Minnesota, 01-11-2013 19:46:03  
So you pulled the Hyd pump but not the top cover?? Sounds like maybe the hyd cylinder has a major leak or the top cover gasket may have blown out but that is not common unless the relief valve stuck closed and of that happened that could have much worse things happening and blowing pump gaskets etc.



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Mr. T. Minnesota

01-11-2013 20:09:40
68.170.114.158



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to old, 01-11-2013 19:55:08  
Old,
If the hyd cylinder had blown there would have been a fluid shower when I did a visual operating check before taking things apart. Checked the relief valve when checking the intake and exhaust valves. All valves were in good shape. Still think something snapped in the top cover. Will check that tomorrow. Any other thoughts are welcome.
Mr. T. Minnesota



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soundguy

01-12-2013 13:05:47
184.233.184.22



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to Mr. T. Minnesota, 01-11-2013 20:09:40  
you are missing HUGE diagnostic observation opportunities.

nothing magic happens int he top cover.

if you manyally actuate the control valve, the pump will do it's thing with the top cover setting on your kitchen takle no where near the tractor.

when you move the valve int he pump.. what happens?



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old

01-11-2013 21:01:01
209.86.226.19



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to Mr. T. Minnesota, 01-11-2013 20:09:40  
Well if something snapped it would be the lift arm cylinder linkage and I can not say 100% sure but if that did happen I would think you would get a mass amount of fluid from the cylinder area but with a set up like that one at best it is a I hope it works. Never have liked trying to tap into the hyd system on the N series fords or for that matter the hundred or ?01 either



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old

01-11-2013 16:53:20
209.86.226.32



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to Mr. T. Minnesota, 01-11-2013 10:55:10  
Are you saying you can not move the control lever or are you saying it moves but does nothing?? Is the lever the type with what looks like a chain link master link on it or other such type. If you had it up and it just dropped all at once the one cylinder could have started bypassing by the seals in the cylinder. Or you could have a broken hose but that I think you would see



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Mr. T. Minnesota

01-11-2013 19:08:48
68.170.114.158



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to old, 01-11-2013 16:53:20  
Old,
Thanks for the reply. It will not lift anything?? Has worked well for the past five months. When moving the lift lever to up position, the three point arms barely twitch?? They used to lift a little and then the FEL would lift. It is 8:30pm and I just completed an inspection from the side plates running with fluid, drained and removed pump and checked the exhaust and intake valves and everything appears fine. Put it back together getting minimal movement. Could the problem be in the upper mechanism? Could something have snapped? I went through this pump last summer and repaired sticky valves. Forum members suggested checking a pin that may give problems. The pin was in reasonable condition-2/3 remaining. Any thoughts are welcome. Not a happy camper!!
Mr. T. Minnesota

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Dell (WA)

01-11-2013 20:28:28
71.217.23.84



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to Mr. T. Minnesota, 01-11-2013 19:08:48  
Mr T........so yer using the weak sister corner test port to power yer FEL. There are several "schemes" to do this. One rigidly ties down yer 3-point lift arms and forces the hydraulic pressure out the corner test port to power up yer FEL. 'nutther scheme uses a lever operated valve to block the hydraulic pressure to yer 3-point lift cylinder. (leaky valve could slightly move yer 3-point lift as you've observed)

Best guess, yer seat top-cover gasket sprung a leak ...or... yer hydraulic lift pipe (you doubt? feel) just inside yer 6"-roundy dipstick plate sprung a leak. (if it leaks, it will SQUIRT across yer tranny housing)

BTW, yer weak sister hydraulic pump is rated at about 2.5gpm and 1700psi and stops pumping every time you clomp yer clod-hoppers on the clutch pedal. The preferred scheme for powering a FEL is the front pulley mounted remote hydraulic pump which is usually rated at 5gpm and 2000psi. As long as yer engine is running, you have hydraulic lift power. Kinda handy when yer backin'n'forwarding ........HTH, Dell

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Mr. T. Minnesota

01-11-2013 21:01:31
68.170.114.158



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to Dell (WA), 01-11-2013 20:28:28  
Dell,
You have given me a lot to nightmare about tonight??
One that caught my attention is the leaky top cover gasket. Never thought of that! If that is the case, would that not spray all over the internal cavity housing too? I used picture framing mat board for the gasket material. Is there a way to determine if that is the culprit without removing the top cover? Any other thoughts or ideas are appreciated.
Mr. T. Minnesota

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old

01-11-2013 21:33:12
209.86.226.32



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to Mr. T. Minnesota, 01-11-2013 21:01:31  
In one of my posted I did say something about the top cover gasket. guess you many not have noticed that which is ok



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Mr. T. Minnesota

01-12-2013 02:11:44
68.170.114.158



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to old, 01-11-2013 21:33:12  
Old,
You did mention the top cover gasket, but I must have been too intent on something snapped, just not my brain:) Not much goes unnoticed on this forum, keeps us going!!
Mr. T. Minnesota (4:10 AM)



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old

01-12-2013 07:30:06
209.86.226.54



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to Mr. T. Minnesota, 01-12-2013 02:11:44  
4:10AM guess this has you worried so bad that your not sleeping LOL. One thing to do that may help is start it up with the PTO spinning and look inside for oil moving. If you see much movement that is the area that the problem is in. Yes you should see a little bit but not all that much



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Dell (WA)

01-11-2013 21:15:00
71.217.23.84



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to Mr. T. Minnesota, 01-11-2013 21:01:31  
Mr T........leaky top cover gasket oughta have "squirts" when lookin' thru the 6"-roundy dip stick plate hole. Simple, eh? ........Dell



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old

01-11-2013 19:17:58
209.86.226.34



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to Mr. T. Minnesota, 01-11-2013 19:08:48  
So your using some sort of rigging that uses the PTO driven hyd pump to work the loader right??? Never have likes that set up and sounds like you have either a relief valve problem or a internal linkage problem. On all my loaders on the fords I use a crank shaft driven pump because of the slow and weak PTO hyd driven system



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Notjustair

01-11-2013 15:27:12
174.237.160.178



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to Mr. T. Minnesota, 01-11-2013 10:55:10  
How cold is it?

Don't shoot me here guys, but if it is really cold how about cutting the viscosity down with a little diesel (or fluid that has lube qualities) or something. That may help your valve until spring when you can drain it and put a valve in it.

Many old tractors recommended cutting fluids when it was very cold but I have not heard whether this was a practice for Fords with a common sump.

I'd do something to help that sticking valve until spring when it was warmer.

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Paul in MN

01-11-2013 13:28:37
174.20.144.217



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to Mr. T. Minnesota, 01-11-2013 10:55:10  
With MN winter comes ice, and ice can play havoc with hydraulics. I suspect that you have some ice crystals being stirred around by the tractor's hydraulic system. If there is a lot of water=ice, then it will go to the bottom of the sump. But with our current "warm" temps we can get ice crystals within the oil. The ice crystals can mess with the pressure relief and exhaust valves and may make the pump act eratically.

PS. Don't get your body parts in such a place that a falling bucket or load can trap or injure you. If you want to leave the loaded bucket partially up, then block it up. Stay safe!!

Paul in MN

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L. B,

01-11-2013 12:20:55
64.187.79.169



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to Mr. T. Minnesota, 01-11-2013 10:55:10  
Full of fluid? Fluid level is the #1 reason for Hyd trouble. Internal leaks weak check, or pressure relief valve? You will just have to trouble shoot it step by step till ya find the problem sorry no short cuts. If it will finish the job and and then get her out of the wind your next day is planned.Be careful cause a sudden pressure drop is like lighting, ya cant get out of the way if your in harms way. Good Luck

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Mr. T. Minnesota

01-11-2013 12:51:47
68.170.114.158



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to L. B,, 01-11-2013 12:20:55  
LB,
Thanks for the reply. It has plenty of fluid. I make sure not to over fill so it does not run down the axle to the brake linings. Been there, done that.
Removed the dip stick side cover and observed the commotion inside. Looked to be in order. The lever linkage is in order-maybe?? Have been told not to theorize on possibilities but there may be a logical solution. When the FEL dropped, it was in the down mode. Wonder if the drop under load could have jammed the exhaust valve open. It has been sticking when attempting to lower under heavy load lately. Maybe I could drain fluid and tap the exhaust valve. Any other thoughts or ideas are welcome.
Mr. T. Minnesota

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TheOldHokie

01-11-2013 16:39:38
108.22.202.27



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to Mr. T. Minnesota, 01-11-2013 12:51:47  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

The N-series three point control valve was never intended to provide the fine grained control needed for controlling a FEL. A dump valve installed in the loader hydrauilc line that was manually activated by lowering the 3pt quadrant was the 40's/50's way of dealing with that twitchy and erratic behavior. Personally I would recommend an inexpensive SA directional control valve with separate return cicuit installed between the test port and loader cylinders. Leave the 3pt control in the full up position (constant ouput at the test port) and use the loader control valve to raise/lower the loader. Cost you about $75.

TOH

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L. B,

01-11-2013 13:18:43
64.187.79.169



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 Re: FEL Suddenly dropped under load ?? in reply to Mr. T. Minnesota, 01-11-2013 12:51:47  
MTM I must confess I ASSumed it was a front mount pump all I know about the N pump is its not my cup of tea. I am very lucky 35 yrs and all I ever had to do was drain old fluid and put new clean fluid in all my Ns. That said you are on the right track with the logical solutions you will never get the famous Minn Banshee to habitate in the N sys. Wait and I bet somebody knows exactly what to do,

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