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Ultradog MN 12-30-2012 06:57:12 184.100.109.75 Report to Moderator	The engine generally stops in the same couple of places when it shuts down so one or two areas of the ring gear are usually worn much more than others. Pull your starter out and look at the ring gear as you turn the engine over by hand. You should see those couple of bad/worn spots and determine if the ring gear is the problem. If you see no bad spots it could also be caused by a loose ring gear that is spinning on the flywheel. Cheap and easy fix for that is with the starter out weld the ring gear to the flywheel with about 4 good tacks at 90, 180, 270 and 360 degrees. You MUST follow a certain grounding procedure to do this so you don't wreck your main bearings in the engine. If you don't know how ASK! Otherwise if the ring gear is bad in a few places the only way to fix it is to split the tractor - which really is not a hard job. [Reply]   [No Email]
L. B, 12-30-2012 11:32:07 64.187.79.169 Report to Moderator	Re: Starter ring gear problems in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-30-2012 06:57:12   UD how does that tacking not unbalance the fw and then what do ya do if ya break teeth off the rg and ya have to remove the tacked in ring? I would think when you would have to grind into the fw that would be a no no. Just asken, not saying it wont work. [Reply]  [No Email]
Ultradog MN 12-30-2012 13:29:43 184.100.109.75 Report to Moderator	Re: Starter ring gear problems in reply to L. B,, 12-30-2012 11:32:07   Part One) I'm guessing that the weight of a 1/2" long tack is about a penny weight = 2.3 grams. I'm also just guessing that the weight of an N flywheel is about 50 lbs. 50 lbs X 16 ounces to the pound X 28.3 grams to the ounce = 22,640 grams. One tack is about 2.3 ÷ 22,640 = .01% I seriously doubt that when the flywheels were new they were within .01% in balance. Secondly, I suggested four tacks around the circumference of the flywheel. Lets try to make them reasonably equidistant and let's say any decent welder can make each tack within 10% the same size and weight. So now we are looking at 10% of .01% out of balance. If my arithmetic is right that is about .001% out of balance. Do you really think that matters?? Do you think even Formula 1 race cars are so exact? I don't. Part Two) Ever heard of a slitting wheel for a 4" angle grinder? They are about 1/16" thick and will cut through ferrous metal like a hot knife through butter What is to prevent any decent welder from cutting those welds back off should the tractor need to be split for something else? And at that time installing a new ring gear (or new/used flywheel)? Part Three) If the ring gear has damaged teeth then the Only way it can be repaired is to split the tractor and install a new one. If the ring gear is good but only slipping then a reliable and inexpensive way to repair it is to weld it. Part Four) See photo below. About 6 years ago I bought a decent little 8N for $900 because the ring gear was bad. The guy I bought it from had paid a guy about $500 to split the tractor and put a new clutch in it because the ring gear was slipping. The new ring gear also slipped so he threw in the towel and sold it. I assumed the flywheel was bad - if two ring gears were slipping. So I had my neighbor carefully hold the ground on the bolt on the front of the crankshaft and welded the ring gear to the flywheel through the starter hole in 4 approximately equidistant places. The whole process - R&R the starter and welding took less than an hour. Then I bolted the hood on properly and installed a used grill I had. I put $25 worth of gas in it and bought my neighbor a case of beer. Then I sold the tractor to a guy I know for $1500. A tidy profit. I know that tractor is still running today because I see it/him when I go up to my land. I am entirely confident my repair will last as long as the new clutch will. Part Six) You may fix your tractor as you see fit. I will fix tractors as I see fit and not fritter away my time on things that do not need it. Jerry [Reply]  [No Email]
TheOldHokie 12-30-2012 16:14:47 108.22.200.173 Report to Moderator	Re: Starter ring gear problems in reply to Ultradog MN, 12-30-2012 13:29:43   Ultradog MN said: (quoted from post at 17:29:43 12/30/12) Part One) I'm guessing that the weight of a 1/2" long tack is about a penny weight = 2.3 grams. I'm also just guessing that the weight of an N flywheel is about 50 lbs. 50 lbs X 16 ounces to the pound X 28.3 grams to the ounce = 22,640 grams. One tack is about 2.3 <font size="4.5" color="black">÷</font> 22,640 = .01% I seriously doubt that when the flywheels were new they were within .01% in balance. Secondly, I suggested four tacks around the circumference of the flywheel. Lets try to make them reasonably equidistant and let's say any decent welder can make each tack within 10% the same size and weight. So now we are looking at 10% of .01% out of balance. If my arithmetic is right that is about .001% out of balance. Do you really think that matters?? Do you think even Formula 1 race cars are so exact? I don't. Part Two) Ever heard of a slitting wheel for a 4" angle grinder? They are about 1/16" thick and will cut through ferrous metal like a hot knife through butter What is to prevent any decent welder from cutting those welds back off should the tractor need to be split for something else? And at that time installing a new ring gear (or new/used flywheel)? Part Three) If the ring gear has damaged teeth then the Only way it can be repaired is to split the tractor and install a new one. If the ring gear is good but only slipping then a reliable and inexpensive way to repair it is to weld it. Part Four) See photo below. About 6 years ago I bought a decent little 8N for $900 because the ring gear was bad. The guy I bought it from had paid a guy about $500 to split the tractor and put a new clutch in it because the ring gear was slipping. The new ring gear also slipped so he threw in the towel and sold it. I assumed the flywheel was bad - if two ring gears were slipping. So I had my neighbor carefully hold the ground on the bolt on the front of the crankshaft and welded the ring gear to the flywheel through the starter hole in 4 approximately equidistant places. The whole process - R&R the starter and welding took less than an hour. Then I bolted the hood on properly and installed a used grill I had. I put $25 worth of gas in it and bought my neighbor a case of beer. Then I sold the tractor to a guy I know for $1500. A tidy profit. I know that tractor is still running today because I see it/him when I go up to my land. I am entirely confident my repair will last as long as the new clutch will. Part Six) You may fix your tractor as you see fit. I will fix tractors as I see fit and not fritter away my time on things that do not need it. Jerry While I don't disagree with you the math/physics doesn't work that way. A typical automotive flywheel static imbalance specification would be roughly .5 ounce-inch maximum. That value represents the static torque caused by an uneven weight distribution across the crankshaft centerline which gets further magnified by dynamic forces when spinning at 2000 RPM. Coincidentally (??) that imbalance on a 12" diameter flywheel works out to be .5/6=.08 ounce (2.3 grams) at the circumference. So it would be wise to keep the tacks very much the same size and evenly distributed. TOH This post was edited by TheOldHokie at 16:48:07 12/30/12 3 times. [Reply]  [No Email]