Electronic Ignition starting problem

HeyObie · Nov 12, 2012

This is my first post so I hope I don"t screw up.

But here is my situation. I recently bought a 49 8N because my 50 8N developed an engine problem and I had to keep running. So I have basic 8N knowledge

What I didn"t know when I bought the 49 was that it was converted to an Electronic Ignition system (this is a 6 volt system).

Now I did a little reading on the boards and I understand that I have the bad combination for EI systems. That is 6volt side mount.

With that said, I"d like to make it work if I can. So here is my problem.

It seems to usually starts right up but not always. But what is really unacceptable is that if I turn it off, it won"t start back up. It is like no spark but not sure. On another board, I was told that this is a sign of a bad coil. So I have one on the way.

My concern is that I an afraid that I will just fry the coil because the coil does not connect to the ballast resistor. The coil is grounded to the engine. There is a wire that runs from the electronic ignition to the same negative terminal as the ignition switch.

So I don"t know what to do to make this 49 start consistently. I don"t want the expense and effort of going 12 volt.

So if no one has a fix for me, I may just go back to points and condenser which will be another adventure because I don"t know what was yanked out of the distributor. I would prefer to make this work as it is if I can

Thanks,

Obie

Dell (WA) · Nov 13, 2012

Obie........electronic ignitions do NOT like 6-volts. Why, 'cuz the solid state electronics quit working at about 5.7-volts. Just starting drags the 6-volt battery down to about 4.5-volts. Ittza LAW, lead-acid law. You can NOT do anything about the LAW.

Unfortunately, the squarecan coil needs the "infamous ballast resistor" ...or... the internal insulative tar melts and shorts out the sparkies. Howsomevers it takes about 1-hr fer the tar to melt. NOT yer problem.

Didja know that you can replace yer points (0.015") every year for 10-yrs for cost of poorly performing electronic ignition?

Ittza 2-bolt, 15-min job to remove the weird 4-nipple frontmount and replace the points (0.015") on the kitchen table. Just un-snapple yer capple and letter dangle. Installation is a reversal of the removal ...except... gently start yer 2-bolts and putt'chur rotor ON. Now rotate yer rotor until the OFF-SET drive tang fits into the OFF-SET camshaft drive slot. Now tighten yer 2-bolts and re-snapple yer capple. Simple, eh?

Remember to "polish" the INVISIBLE CORROSION from between the points. (0.015") Me? I use a clean $1-bill clamped between the points and pull. Iff'n yer really cheap, tear a strip from HEAVY brown paper grocery sack and use that. ........Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

NOXJohn · Nov 13, 2012

I am a fan of EI but only when the tractor has been converted to 12 volts. If your tractor is actually a 1949 it is a front mount not a side mount as you indicated. Regardless you best solution is to purchase a new breaker plate assembly and convert the tractor back to points. Both this site and nnalert sell the plate assembly for $30-40. I would call and ask the manufacturer of the points prior to purchase. If they are made by TISCO I would buy some place different. TISCO points are junk.

Hobo,NC · Nov 13, 2012

(quoted from post at 09:51:04 11/13/12) This is my first post so I hope I don"t screw up.

But here is my situation. I recently bought a 49 8N because my 50 8N developed an engine problem and I had to keep running. So I have basic 8N knowledge

What I didn"t know when I bought the 49 was that it was converted to an Electronic Ignition system (this is a 6 volt system).

Now I did a little reading on the boards and I understand that I have the bad combination for EI systems. That is 6volt side mount.

With that said, I"d like to make it work if I can. So here is my problem.

It seems to usually starts right up but not always. But what is really unacceptable is that if I turn it off, it won"t start back up. It is like no spark but not sure. On another board, I was told that this is a sign of a bad coil. So I have one on the way.

My concern is that I an afraid that I will just fry the coil because the coil does not connect to the ballast resistor. The coil is grounded to the engine. There is a wire that runs from the electronic ignition to the same negative terminal as the ignition switch.

So I don"t know what to do to make this 49 start consistently. I don"t want the expense and effort of going 12 volt.

So if no one has a fix for me, I may just go back to points and condenser which will be another adventure because I don"t know what was yanked out of the distributor. I would prefer to make this work as it is if I can

Thanks,

Obie

Keep the EI for-go the those troublesome issues with points... Your 6V EI wiil work just fine... Points and EI suffer from the same electrical issues you coil probably needs to go thru a resistor. Its EZ to try run the wire from the top of the coil thru the OEM resistor and from the resistor to ground ...

BUTTTTTTTTTT before you go fudgen with it just in-case it was not like the one I have worked on post ex-zackly how its wired... JMOR is the resident EI expert I am sure he will help you get it wired correctly...

HeyObie · Nov 13, 2012

Here is how it is wired as I mentioned in the
original post. I can not use the ballast resistor
because my EI is grounded to the tractor (this is
the opposite polarity - positive ground vs the
ballast resistor which is Negative) The coil does not connect to the ballast resistor. The coil is grounded to the
engine. There is a wire that runs from the
electronic ignition to the same negative terminal
as the ignition switch.

Hobo,NC · Nov 13, 2012

(quoted from post at 17:57:38 11/13/12) Here is how it is wired as I mentioned in the
original post. I can not use the ballast resistor
because my EI is grounded to the tractor (this is
the opposite polarity - positive ground vs the
ballast resistor which is Negative) The coil does not connect to the ballast resistor. The coil is grounded to the
engine. There is a wire that runs from the
electronic ignition to the same negative terminal
as the ignition switch.

The wire from the top post of the coil runs from the post to the chassis ground (engine),,,, if so run the wire from the top post of the coil to the Original ballast then from ballast to chassis ground...

You do not want any resistance in the circuit from the switch to the EI unit :wink:

HeyObie · Nov 13, 2012

Correction - I said side mount in the above post, this is a FRONT mount 49 8N

HeyObie · Nov 13, 2012

Hobo,

Let me get this straight. If I am standing at the
FRONT of the 8N looking at the ballast, you are
saying, run a wire from the top of the coil to the
LEFT post of the ballast. On that same LEFT post,
run a wire to GROUND.

Obie

JMOR · Nov 13, 2012

(quoted from post at 11:05:20 11/13/12) Hobo,

Let me get this straight. If I am standing at the
FRONT of the 8N looking at the ballast, you are
saying, run a wire from the top of the coil to the
LEFT post of the ballast. On that same LEFT post,
run a wire to GROUND.

Obie

o, that isn't what he said. To re-work your statement, he said,
"If I am standing at the
FRONT of the 8N looking at the ballast, you are
saying, run a wire from the top of the coil to the
LEFT post of the ballast. On the RIGHT post,
run a wire to GROUND".
NOW, let me add MORE. At this point, you have not even established that the EI/coil/spark is your problem, sooooo, the FIRST order of business is to determine whether of not you have a spark at that moment when the tractor won't start. Pull a plug wire, hold it near grounded metal parts & look to see if a quality spark is present or not. Go from there.

IF you do determine that under 'no start' conditions that you do not have a spark, I suggest that you measure the coil primary resistance. Coils vary (maybe 0.5 to 2.5 Ohms) and Pertronix recommends that combined coil + any ballast resistance add up to a total of 1.5 Ohms for your 6v system. That may mean that a resistor is needed and it may mean that no resistor is needed......it depends on that primary resistance number.

Hobo,NC · Nov 13, 2012

(quoted from post at 19:05:20 11/13/12) Hobo,

Let me get this straight. If I am standing at the
FRONT of the 8N looking at the ballast, you are
saying, run a wire from the top of the coil to the
LEFT post of the ballast. On that same LEFT post,
run a wire to GROUND.

Obie

Ground the other side of the ballast to complete the circuit... The circuit flows thru the ballast to ground....

This will reduce the amps to around 4/5 amps,,, with out a ballast you are in the 8 amp range...

HeyObie · Nov 13, 2012

Electronics is not my strength. I have a meter but I do not know where to put the probes to check the resistance. I assume the engine and ignition is off.

Hobo,NC · Nov 13, 2012

(quoted from post at 03:36:27 11/14/12) Electronics is not my strength. I have a meter but I do not know where to put the probes to check the resistance. I assume the engine and ignition is off.

If you add the resistor and its starts and runs good don't worry about checking it with a meter ....

Maybe Bruce will come along and fill you in on zackly how to check it iffin you wannna go their,,, the check is very similar to a points set up

Points and EI suffer from the same electrical issues...

HeyObie · Nov 20, 2012

Got busy at work. Back to my problem.

So I need to run the coil through the resistor which it is not currently doing. As I said earlier, the coil is grounded to the engine because of the EI conversion.

What I need to do is remove the coil wire that is grounded to the engine and run it back to the left side of the ballast resistor (standing at the front of the tractor) and ground the right side of the ballast to the 8N.

To do this I need to buy a SECOND ballast resistor because the one that is on there is HOT (battery negative). Nothing is on the Left terminal (since it was converted to EI). but the Right terminal and bottom terminal has several wires on it

So am I correct that I need a new ballast resistor (I'd rather not use the old one, because it may not even be working)? Will this one work from nnalert? It has 1.0 resitor and cost $5.

http://www.external_link/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=541

or do I need to buy the original that costs $20

http://www.external_link/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=884

Hobo,NC · Nov 20, 2012

The original is being used as a junction at this time,,, Find another way to tie those wires together... Then use the original as has been stated... If it has a aftermarket amp meter (not the original loop style) you can move the junction to one of those studs...

HeyObie · Nov 20, 2012

How do you test the resistor ballast? I'd like to make sure it works before I hook up a new coil

JMOR · Nov 20, 2012

(quoted from post at 16:30:44 11/20/12) How do you test the resistor ballast? I'd like to make sure it works before I hook up a new coil

o most of the world, it looks like a few inches of wire coiled around an insulator that should conduct electric current just like a wire is expected to, so if your ballast will do that, then call it good. If you have a lab or shop full of variable loads, power supplies, ammeters, voltmeters, then you can determine the resistance as a function of power (heat) input to it and even correlate resistance to temperature. It will be about 0.1 Ohm at room temperature & about 1.3 or so Ohms when glowing red hot, enough to set paper on fire or char wood.

HeyObie · Nov 20, 2012

Thanks for the help guys. I am getting there slowly.

I checked to see if there is resistance on the resistor. There is. So it is not broken.

Moved the hot wires off of the resistor and grounded the resistor tonight.

Tomorrow, the new coil and new ground wire from the coil to the resistor go in.

HeyObie · Nov 21, 2012

Well, I got it all hooked up with the new coil. Ground runs from coil to LEFT side of resistor. RIGHT side of resistor is grounded.

My red bellied baby will not start. I find no spark at the plugs.

I took my analog meter to the resistor. The RIGHT side of the resistor to the negative battery terminal reads a tad over 6 volts. The LEFT side of the resistor to the negative battery terminal reads a little under 4 volts.

Not sure where to go from here. Not sure the the EI will fire at 4 volts. This may be why the guy before bypassed the resistor and grounded straight to the engine block.

Any thoughts appreciated.

JMOR · Nov 21, 2012

(quoted from post at 15:57:39 11/21/12) Well, I got it all hooked up with the new coil. Ground runs from coil to LEFT side of resistor. RIGHT side of resistor is grounded.

My red bellied baby will not start. I find no spark at the plugs.

I took my analog meter to the resistor. The RIGHT side of the resistor to the negative battery terminal reads a tad over 6 volts. The LEFT side of the resistor to the negative battery terminal reads a little under 4 volts.

Not sure where to go from here. Not sure the the EI will fire at 4 volts. This may be why the guy before bypassed the resistor and grounded straight to the engine block.

Any thoughts appreciated.

K, first, what the devil are you doing referencing all your voltage measurements to the negative side of the battery in a POSITIVE GROUND system???!! You should always (almost) reference to the tractor chassis, which in your case is the POSITIVE battery terminal. So now that I have un-wound your convoluted measurements, they look OK. A nominal 4 amps thru coil. 4 volts across coil and 2 volts across resistor. That means module is "ON" (as if it were points closed). So that means it is OK or that module is internally shorted, or you created a pigtail short when you installed your new coil.
Check for that short first. Next, with meter from chassis gnd (batt pos) to LEFT of resistor, key on, crank over watching for meter movement as module switched 'on' -'off' -'on'. What do you see?

HeyObie · Nov 21, 2012

JMOR,

Thanks for working with me on this. I do not understand what you are saying to me.

I am measuring a 2 volt drop, I think. Again, my electronics is weak. I don't know if I am properly measuring anything but I am very clear about what I did. I do not know if what I did makes sense. But to me it shows what is going to the Voltage Regulator.

I put a the red prob on the RIGHT side of the Resistor/ballast contact and the black prob on the battery (-) and got a little over 6V.

I then put the red probe on the LEFT side of the Resistor/ballast contact and the black prob on the battery (-) and got a little under 4V.

If there is something else to check, please let me know. Should I probe at the coil?

I did notice a 1/2 volt drop that I did not expect. I think I am losing a 1/2 through the key/ignition switch. I probed a little ove 6V when I hit the HOT terminal at the bottom of the ballast/resistor (this is the 3rd terminal on the bottom of the ballast resistor which is always hot and not keyed). When I probed the the new hot terminal that I moved off of the right terminal of the ballast resistor (which I had to move because we were changing this to go to ground) which is keyed, I lost about 1/2 a volt.

I believe with the 6 volt EI, every 1/2 volt is important. Not sure.

Any thoughts as to what I should check? Is a 2 volt drop caused by the resistor too much? Will the EI work with 4 volts going to it?

JMOR · Nov 21, 2012

2v is about right. Important thing now is to see if voltage on left resistor terminal changed with engine rotation, key on.

HeyObie · Nov 21, 2012

Left Resistor terminal (ground +) and battery (-) is 4.2Volts with engine cranking

Left resistor terminal (ground +) and Post going to EI with engine cranking is 3.5Volts

HeyObie · Nov 21, 2012

I reset the coil. Lifted it straight up an put it down. slid the clamping wire over the top.

I put one probe on the chasis and one on the left resistor. This I don't understand since they are both grounds.

Anyway, I turn the key on and it registers 1.2 volts. When I crank it, it drops to .8 and pulses a tiny tiny amount. not worth mentioning. probably the tractor shaking.

JMOR · Nov 21, 2012

(quoted from post at 21:38:53 11/21/12) I reset the coil. Lifted it straight up an put it down. slid the clamping wire over the top.

I put one probe on the chasis and one on the left resistor. This I don't understand since they are both grounds.

Anyway, I turn the key on and it registers 1.2 volts. When I crank it, it drops to .8 and pulses a tiny tiny amount. not worth mentioning. probably the tractor shaking.

"I put one probe on the chasis and one on the left resistor. This I don't understand since they are both grounds. "

I don't either, because earlier you said right resistor terminal was ground. Now here, you say Left. Which is it?

HeyObie · Nov 21, 2012

The right terminal is grounded to the chassis. This goes through the resistor to the left terminal. The left terminal goes to the coil. To me the left terminal is still ground. Just my ignorance

If I put the meter on the left post and to chassis, I would expect to see nothing. To me, it is ground to ground.

Anyway, the reading was 1.2 volts. When I cranked it, it went to .8 volts. What reading would you expect to see? I wish I could help you more with diagnosing.

leej · Nov 21, 2012

What?

JMOR · Nov 21, 2012

(quoted from post at 22:43:05 11/21/12) The right terminal is grounded to the chassis. This goes through the resistor to the left terminal. The left terminal goes to the coil. To me the left terminal is still ground. Just my ignorance

If I put the meter on the left post and to chassis, I would expect to see nothing. To me, it is ground to ground.

Anyway, the reading was 1.2 volts. When I cranked it, it went to .8 volts. What reading would you expect to see? I wish I could help you more with diagnosing.

To me, it is ground to ground." Well it isn't, but don't worry about that for now.
Voltage readings are within reason, but I can't have adequate confidence, at this point, to be sure that the EI module is switching. So to gain that confidence, we need to connect a test lamp/probe or any small 6 volt bulb from battery negative to LEFT resistor terminal & with key on & cranking, does the lamp flash on & off???

JMOR · Nov 22, 2012

(quoted from post at 00:10:00 11/22/12)

(quoted from post at 22:43:05 11/21/12) The right terminal is grounded to the chassis. This goes through the resistor to the left terminal. The left terminal goes to the coil. To me the left terminal is still ground. Just my ignorance

If I put the meter on the left post and to chassis, I would expect to see nothing. To me, it is ground to ground.

Anyway, the reading was 1.2 volts. When I cranked it, it went to .8 volts. What reading would you expect to see? I wish I could help you more with diagnosing.

Click to expand...

To me, it is ground to ground." Well it isn't, but don't worry about that for now.
Voltage readings are within reason, but I can't have adequate confidence, at this point, to be sure that the EI module is switching. So to gain that confidence, we need to connect a test lamp/probe or any small 6 volt bulb from battery negative to LEFT resistor terminal & with key on & cranking, does the lamp flash on & off???

.and another thought: what did you do with the group of wires that were previously on the resistor? And can you verify that the black wire going into the EI module inside distributor is connected to power when key is on?

JMOR · Nov 22, 2012

(quoted from post at 10:18:23 11/22/12)

(quoted from post at 00:10:00 11/22/12)

(quoted from post at 22:43:05 11/21/12) The right terminal is grounded to the chassis. This goes through the resistor to the left terminal. The left terminal goes to the coil. To me the left terminal is still ground. Just my ignorance

If I put the meter on the left post and to chassis, I would expect to see nothing. To me, it is ground to ground.

Anyway, the reading was 1.2 volts. When I cranked it, it went to .8 volts. What reading would you expect to see? I wish I could help you more with diagnosing.

Click to expand...

To me, it is ground to ground." Well it isn't, but don't worry about that for now.
Voltage readings are within reason, but I can't have adequate confidence, at this point, to be sure that the EI module is switching. So to gain that confidence, we need to connect a test lamp/probe or any small 6 volt bulb from battery negative to LEFT resistor terminal & with key on & cranking, does the lamp flash on & off???

Click to expand...

.and another thought: what did you do with the group of wires that were previously on the resistor? And can you verify that the black wire going into the EI module inside distributor is connected to power when key is on?

..........and yet another thought.......as a last resort, test the module in distributor with this procedure:

HeyObie · Nov 23, 2012

I fabricated a piece to hold the wires. I took an endcap of 3/4" PVC pipe, cut it down, put a small brass bolt though it and epoxied it to the tractor. I moved the wires and started the tractor to make sure everything was fine before I grounded the resistor.

8N started fine. I then grounded the RIGHT resistor post to the chassis. I then removed the wire from the top of the coil that was grounded to the front of the engine. I then ran a wire form the top of the NEW coil to the LEFT post of the resistor.

JMOR · Nov 23, 2012

(quoted from post at 10:34:51 11/23/12)
I fabricated a piece to hold the wires. I took an endcap of 3/4" PVC pipe, cut it down, put a small brass bolt though it and epoxied it to the tractor. I moved the wires and started the tractor to make sure everything was fine before I grounded the resistor.

8N started fine. I then grounded the RIGHT resistor post to the chassis. I then removed the wire from the top of the coil that was grounded to the front of the engine. I then ran a wire form the top of the NEW coil to the LEFT post of the resistor.

ounds good......now on to the test lamp

HeyObie · Nov 23, 2012

The light flickers. Very faint flicker, but it flickers. I got it to start once. But that is all. An occasional firing of one cylinder.

JMOR · Nov 23, 2012

(quoted from post at 14:00:23 11/23/12)
The light flickers. Very faint flicker, but it flickers. I got it to start once. But that is all. An occasional firing of one cylinder.

ightt on/off sounds like module is switching
How is color of spark? Orange or blue-white?

Hobo,NC · Nov 23, 2012

(quoted from post at 22:00:23 11/23/12)
The light flickers. Very faint flicker, but it flickers. I got it to start once. But that is all. An occasional firing of one cylinder.

You could save a hole lot of grief with a simple tool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeGXQ0OTkvA&feature=related

Why I like a adjustable checker most of what I work on is EI,,, if I have a no spark condition I can dial the gap in to were it will jump spark even tho the spark is weak (the same applies for conventional ign)... I then know the ignition is capable of signaling the coil to fire... n a few min I have eliminated sensors, modules, computers and wiring... Yes their are a few variables (points to close/burnt) but a coil will fix it 99% of the time if I get fire any fire....

http://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDisplay.cfm?lookup=THE404&source=froogle&kw=THE404

http://www.amazon.com/Thexton-404-Adjustable-Ignition-Tester/dp/B0002STSBM

HeyObie · Nov 24, 2012

Thank Hobo. I ordered one. Always good to have the right tools

HeyObie · Nov 28, 2012

.

Had to put it down for a few days.

Just a recap of the story and where I am.

The problem was that the 49 8N would start, but then would not restart if I turned it off. Once it sat for a few hours, it would restart.

It has an EI and 6V. I learned that the coil was grounded to the front of the engine and that is not proper and most likely my coil is shot because it needed to run through the ballast resistor to protect it.

So I installed a new coil and reworked the wiring so that it went through the ballast resistor. After I did this, I could not get the 8N to fire. Maybe one cylinder, but it just wouldn't go.

So yesterday, I undid my work. I put the old coil back on and grounded to the front of the 8N to see if I could get my tractor back to working. I also redid all the grounds. Took things apart, grounded off paint and rust. Put dielectric grease on and reassembled.

Tried to start the redbelly back up and it wasn't too happy. I turned the fuel off and it seemed to start to respond. So it finally started with the fuel off (I have put two carbs on it with the same results).

So I pulled the plugs (they were 437's which is the right plug) to see what was up. They were wet and black. I checked the gap. The specs call for .025 and these were gapped to .035-.040. I also noticed how poorly the previous owner had put on the piece that goes between the plug wire and the plug. A horrible job. The copper was just floating in the air. I gave these some love and reworked them.

Between the wrong gap and the poor connections, these plugs were not happy. Anyway, I fired it up to test my work and KABAM! One happy 8N. It fires like an old man who just got a new pacemaker. It really starts hard. Pulled a plug and it looks perfect

So tomorrow, I am going to put the NEW coil on and the ground wire that runs through the ballast resistor to see if I can hook it up the way it is supposed to be. Stay tuned. Maybe I should just leave it alone?

JMOR · Nov 28, 2012

I would do what you say you are going to do and if it starts & runs bad or doesn't start at all, I would jumper (short across the resistor & re-try), since we really don't know the primary resistance of either coil that you have.

HeyObie · Nov 29, 2012

I connected the ground from the resistor to the old coil and the 8N is firing hard on all cylinders. Nothing better than a perfectly running machine.

I love my Electronic Ignition. Glad we could get it working. Shouldn't have to play with it for quite a while.

THANKS GUYS for the help.

One Happy Camper,

Obie

JMOR · Nov 29, 2012

(quoted from post at 11:36:29 11/29/12)
I connected the ground from the resistor to the old coil and the 8N is firing hard on all cylinders. Nothing better than a perfectly running machine.

I love my Electronic Ignition. Glad we could get it working. Shouldn't have to play with it for quite a while.

THANKS GUYS for the help.

One Happy Camper,

Obie

o much water under the bridge, here, that I have lost track of the multitude of changes. So, what if anything is different from one of the previous configurations where you were still having problems?? Seems to me that the current configuration is exactly the same as you have had before?

HeyObie · Nov 29, 2012

The original problem was that 8N wouldn't restart. So we went down the path that the EI current was too weak. Then learned that the coil was grounded to the engine and not the resister. Some assumed that the coil was fried because of getting the full 6 volts and not the voltage coming through the resistor.

So I got a new coil and ran new wiring from the resistor to the coil. When I did that, 8N wouldn't start at all.

Went back to the old coil and grounded to the front of the engine which is the way it was originally. It started but not a restart which to this day I do not understand.

I then discovered the plugs were gapped wrong and the spark plug wires were screwed up under the rubber which insulates/protects the plugs.

Once I put in new plugs properly gapped and fixed the plug wires, all problems went away.

I now have a new coil with a new grounding wire from resistor to coil. All is perfect.

Lessons learned:

1 - don't assume that the coil is bad if the 8N won't restart
2 - don't assume EI on a 6 volt is bad if not restarting. Glad I didn't go to the effort to pull EI and install points and condensor
3 - I needed a way to test the spark which I didn't have. I have since purchased a spark testor which will arrive tomorrow.

Hobo,NC · Nov 29, 2012

(quoted from post at 02:11:51 11/30/12) The original problem was that 8N wouldn't restart. So we went down the path that the EI current was too weak. Then learned that the coil was grounded to the engine and not the resister. Some assumed that the coil was fried because of getting the full 6 volts and not the voltage coming through the resistor.

So I got a new coil and ran new wiring from the resistor to the coil. When I did that, 8N wouldn't start at all.

Went back to the old coil and grounded to the front of the engine which is the way it was originally. It started but not a restart which to this day I do not understand.

I then discovered the plugs were gapped wrong and the spark plug wires were screwed up under the rubber which insulates/protects the plugs.

Once I put in new plugs properly gapped and fixed the plug wires, all problems went away.

I now have a new coil with a new grounding wire from resistor to coil. All is perfect.

Lessons learned:

1 - don't assume that the coil is bad if the 8N won't restart
2 - don't assume EI on a 6 volt is bad if not restarting. Glad I didn't go to the effort to pull EI and install points and condensor
3 - I needed a way to test the spark which I didn't have. I have since purchased a spark testor which will arrive tomorrow.

Lesson learned "Points and EI suffer from the same electrical issues"""...

JMOR · Nov 29, 2012

(quoted from post at 18:11:51 11/29/12) The original problem was that 8N wouldn't restart. So we went down the path that the EI current was too weak. Then learned that the coil was grounded to the engine and not the resister. Some assumed that the coil was fried because of getting the full 6 volts and not the voltage coming through the resistor.

So I got a new coil and ran new wiring from the resistor to the coil. When I did that, 8N wouldn't start at all.

Went back to the old coil and grounded to the front of the engine which is the way it was originally. It started but not a restart which to this day I do not understand.

I then discovered the plugs were gapped wrong and the spark plug wires were screwed up under the rubber which insulates/protects the plugs.

Once I put in new plugs properly gapped and fixed the plug wires, all problems went away.

I now have a new coil with a new grounding wire from resistor to coil. All is perfect.

Lessons learned:

1 - don't assume that the coil is bad if the 8N won't restart
2 - don't assume EI on a 6 volt is bad if not restarting. Glad I didn't go to the effort to pull EI and install points and condensor
3 - I needed a way to test the spark which I didn't have. I have since purchased a spark testor which will arrive tomorrow.

So, in the end, it boiled down to plugs & plug wires?

HeyObie · Nov 29, 2012

And coil was not properly wired. It was grounded to the engine and not running through the resistor. From what everyone says, the coil should be damaged.

My thought is that the coils are tougher than they used to be or the current running through the coil is below spec. Just me guessing.

But thank you for teaching me and being patient while I figured it out.

What I have learned from these types of forums (I have an 82 Corvette, 82 Jeep, 89 Conquest and 97 BMW), is that electrical problems can be very very challenging to diagnose. Mechanical is relatively easy. You can see it and feel it. But electrical is requires a much higher understanding of that particular vehicle. And the person that is having the problem needs to provide accurate and precise information to the members of the forum.

But I am always so impressed with the people who are so dedicated to helping members of the forum. It is like being part of a large family where everyone wants to help resolve your problem. It is a beautiful thing to be part of.

JMOR · Nov 29, 2012

(quoted from post at 21:16:14 11/29/12) And coil was not properly wired. It was grounded to the engine and not running through the resistor. From what everyone says, the coil should be damaged.

My thought is that the coils are tougher than they used to be or the current running through the coil is below spec. Just me guessing.

But thank you for teaching me and being patient while I figured it out.

What I have learned from these types of forums (I have an 82 Corvette, 82 Jeep, 89 Conquest and 97 BMW), is that electrical problems can be very very challenging to diagnose. Mechanical is relatively easy. You can see it and feel it. But electrical is requires a much higher understanding of that particular vehicle. And the person that is having the problem needs to provide accurate and precise information to the members of the forum.

But I am always so impressed with the people who are so dedicated to helping members of the forum. It is like being part of a large family where everyone wants to help resolve your problem. It is a beautiful thing to be part of.

lad to be of whatever help that I may have been ............and thank you very much for the follow-up.

Electronic Ignition starting problem

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