How convert 8n to keyswitch start only

trmccrary

New User
Does anyone have a diagram of how to make 8n start by turning key on instead of push putton? My dad has it wired but it burns the switch up. Its a 3 wire alt. Its a 52 side mout dist. Thanks
 
That's a good way to hurt yourself or someone else.

If the push button doesn't work, the tractor will start in gear.

It will probably cost you all of $25 to fix it correctly, if that.

I can help you fix it correctly if you would like to do that. Otherwise, someone else will be along to tell you how to wire it for a key start.
50 Tips
 
I agree with Bruce.
I had a few that came with a key switch and put them all back to using
the neutral safety switch for safety.
Its not hard or expensive to make them work right.
 
Sorry, can't help, nor would I. A 'key only' starting system on a tractor, or lawn tractor likely doesn't exist. There may be a reason.
 
I use the automotive start switch on my 8N it's a better quality switch than the original, but I don't start it with the key switch. I wired it to start with the safety switch and recommend you do the same. Lot of things can happen when in a hurry or just forget and start it in gear and none of them are good.
 
I agree with the other posters. My latest has a automotive type of key start. As soon as my other projects are complete, I will put it back to original.
 
Don't do it! That push button the transmission is there to keep you from getting killed!

Zane
 
I agree with the others.

I'll tell you haow to convert it back to a themb starter.. likely a 20-30 $ issue if it needs a new thumb switch and soelnoid.. however it's safe.

the key to start systems bypass that safety..
 
Here is the article in the N-News that soundguy & I wrote on replacing the thumb switch. Assuming yours needs to be replaced......and it might not.
IMG-1.jpg

IMG_0001-2.jpg

IMG_0002.jpg

50 Tips
 
trmccrary........I could but I know electricity and switches. The typical "twist-to-start" ignition switch supplies volts to the starter solenoid. The standard 8N BIG tranny thumb button GROUNDS the HOT solenoid to engage the Bendix solenoid. Just the OPPOSITE of yer typical twist-to-start automotive ignition switch which supplies volts. More better you pay attention to what others say about the SAFETY starter interlock scheme.

Most 8N starter problems are the single wire from middle of solenoid to the BIG starter thumb switch. It gitts BROKE from yer clod-hoppers kicking it as you climb aboard yer tractor. You doubt? Replace it with #14ga stranded automotive wire, enny color works just fine. Simple, eh? ........Dell, a 12V advocate for the right reasons who knows 8-ways to convert and they all work the first time
 
You guys should have talked to the PO of my tractor before he made his changes... It's been key start since I've had it, with no tranny lock-out. I think I'd be happier with the lock-out enabled. (Which, of course, shows the original poster that it's possible, even if it's not a good idea.)

-Paul
 
(quoted from post at 10:07:01 10/22/12) You guys should have talked to the PO of my tractor before he made his changes... It's been key start since I've had it, with no tranny lock-out. I think I'd be happier with the lock-out enabled. (Which, of course, shows the original poster that it's possible, even if it's not a good idea.)

-Paul

OK I like the safety lock out but it's very possible to convert to turn to start. Operators must know that it's turn to start as there are no safety locks. A guy could wire in a safety switch that would only work with the clutch depressed which ould be the only safe option.

I did convert a IH M to a push button switch even though the key switch is a turn to start.

Rick
 
pressing clutch to start as a safety?

what if your clutch is stuck = no safety.

oem setup won't start if trans is in gear.

if out of gear and stuck clutch = no problem.

being out of gear at start is the safe feature...
 
I'll agree with sounNdguy about the clutch--certainly not a safe option on an 8N. At least not mine...

But this reminds me about the car I had 15 years ago that I put a remote starter into. (For those of you in warm climates--a remote starter is a godsend in really cold weather!) The problem was that the car had a manual transmission. Those don't (or didn't then) have any sensor to tell if it was in neutral. There's a sensor on the clutch so you can't start it the normal way without stepping on the clutch. But that obviously needs to be bypassed for a remote starter. The solution that the remote starter's manufacturer came up with was in the procedure. If you wanted to be able to use the remote starter you had to "arm" it the last time you drove the car. You'd have to press the remote button while the engine was still running. That would allow you to turn the key to off and remove it, but it would leave the engine running. Then you'd have to get out and close all the doors. And then push the remote button to shut the engine off. Of course to do this, the car would have to be in neutral. But to ensure it stayed in neutral, if anyone opened any of the doors (there's a sensor for that--the one that turns the dome light on) between this time and the time you want to remote start the car, it would disarm the starter. A real PITA, but when it was -30°, you'd remember to arm it every time! (On an automatic transmission, there was/is no arming necessary.)

-Paul
 
I have two 8ns and they both have the safety interlock working as it should. That said I also have a JD crawler that does not and never had any kind of safety interlock. No machine is any safer than the operator. The problem of removing it from an 8n is if someone else that is used to having it on an N goes to start it. One should always make double sure you have it out of gear no matter what you are starting. Safety devices can and have killed if taken for granted.
 
(quoted from post at 11:27:23 10/22/12) pressing clutch to start as a safety?

what if your clutch is stuck = no safety.

oem setup won't start if trans is in gear.

if out of gear and stuck clutch = no problem.

being out of gear at start is the safe feature...


Every new car and truck sold in the US has a clutch safety switch......every one! If the clutch sticks FIX IT! Clutchs on both of my 8N's work as they should so a clutch safety would work fine.

Did you note that I did say that I like the safety interlock on the tranny? Both of mine work as they did from the factory. I have no plans on changing that. I just said it could be done.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 11:27:23 10/22/12) pressing clutch to start as a safety?

what if your clutch is stuck = no safety.

oem setup won't start if trans is in gear.

if out of gear and stuck clutch = no problem.

being out of gear at start is the safe feature...

OH, forgot, note I said a clutch safety COULD be used. I did not give any directions as far as parts needed or wiring to make the conversion. I was just throwing it out there that it could be done.

Rick
 
if you walk out to your tractor and set down on it to start it.. you have NO idea if it has had it's clutch setup over the weekend or not.

I've seen it happen.

a clutch safety is not as safe as the trans being in neutral.. no question about it.

if you KNOW it's stuck.. sure you can fix it.. but if you don't know?
 
I would not use the key start unless you wired it in WITH the thumb start so you need both to start. Otherwise the thumb start is best.

from personal experience: I remember watching my Grandfather start his Farmall Super A (I have it now) by standing in front of the right rear tire and pulling the start lever to crank the tractor. I also remember watching him shake the shift lever back and forth to insure it was in neutral first. I got a Farmall 140 (very similar) and had pulled the shift cover and moved the gears around to diagnose a problem. I reinstalled the shift cover and had to slide the gears around to get it back on. When I went to start it, I stood in front of the right rear tire, shook the shift lever to make sure it was in neutral, then just before I pulled the start lever, I had a moment of concern and stepped back from in front of the rear tire and pulled the start lever. The tractor cranked and I then had to run after it and climb on it from the back to shut it off since I had inadvertently transposed one of the gears. Neutral was effectively 2nd gear! I am able to walk around and talk about this because I got lucky and moved out from in front of the rear tire. There was no way I would have been able to react to the tractor starting in gear and it would have run me over. I now sit in the seat of my Super A when I want to start it, every time! My 8Ns both have the thumb starts. One of them I replaced the same week of that incident.

As a tractor newbie I started out with a big bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. I moved some luck into experience that day. I just hope hope my bag of luck holds out until I fill my bag of experience.

Jimps in GA.
 
(quoted from post at 10:25:39 10/23/12) if you walk out to your tractor and set down on it to start it.. you have NO idea if it has had it's clutch setup over the weekend or not.

I've seen it happen.

a clutch safety is not as safe as the trans being in neutral.. no question about it.

if you KNOW it's stuck.. sure you can fix it.. but if you don't know?

If really you want it to be safe put a simple seat interlock switch on it :twisted:

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 07:25:39 10/23/12) if you walk out to your tractor and set down on it to start it.. you have NO idea if it has had it's clutch setup over the weekend or not.

I've seen it happen.

a clutch safety is not as safe as the trans being in neutral.. no question about it.

if you KNOW it's stuck.. sure you can fix it.. but if you don't know?

Well seeing as I've never had that happen, and I always put the tractor in N before hitting the starter anyway. But because I don't know the condition of others peoples stuff I would be the last person to tell you how to convert something over like. I really think Ford had the right idea with putting safeties on the Ns. Again thats why I didn't say how to do it but only that it could be done. I never try starting a tractor unless I'm setting on the seat.

Rick
 
I always press the clutch to start as well, because it's less drag.. however.. you give someone a no safety, key to start system.. and somewhere, somebody is gonna get rund over ;)
 
(quoted from post at 10:32:28 10/23/12) I always press the clutch to start as well, because it's less drag.. however.. you give someone a no safety, key to start system.. and somewhere, somebody is gonna get rund over ;)


LOL almost no tractors prior to the 60's had any type of stater safety system. In fact almost all of the folks that I've read about getting run over by a tractor was dumb stuff like getting on and off while the tractor was moving or jumping from a tractor that lost brakes or seemed about to roll. I've heard about one guy who got run over while starting a tractor while standing in front of the rear tire and hitting the starter.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 23:37:14 10/24/12)
(quoted from post at 10:32:28 10/23/12) I always press the clutch to start as well, because it's less drag.. however.. you give someone a no safety, key to start system.. and somewhere, somebody is gonna get rund over ;)


LOL almost no tractors prior to the 60's had any type of stater safety system. In fact almost all of the folks that I've read about getting run over by a tractor was dumb stuff like getting on and off while the tractor was moving or jumping from a tractor that lost brakes or seemed about to roll. I've heard about one guy who got run over while starting a tractor while standing in front of the rear tire and hitting the starter.

Rick
I was thinking about my JD, AC's and Farmall's, they don't have "neutral safety" interlocks.
Then again, they don't have key start switches either.
They have foot switches, or pull/push levers meant to be operated from the seat.
Still seems to me they're all safer left as and operated as designed.
 
(quoted from post at 21:59:51 10/21/12) Does anyone have a diagram of how to make 8n start by turning key on instead of push putton? My dad has it wired but it burns the switch up. Its a 3 wire alt. Its a 52 side mout dist. Thanks

just my preference, but, whatever way the factory
had it on any brand tractor is how I leave it.
they probably had their reasons.

with that said, I start all brands, sizes, by standing next to them.
not recommended, but old habits are hard to break.
start it, let it warm up a bit, then use it

BUT, I always have it in neutral and the clutch dis-engaged.
(pull the lever, block of wood, etc.)
And SOP is to leave the mag grounded, or
switch off, for just a starter bump, or crank/flywheel twist
to help prime the cylinders.
If it nudges me, somethings wrong........
working on old unknown junk in the shop. one rear gets jacked up
before cranking.
I don't worry about myself
but I don't want it wrecking the shop.
 
i remember mowing on my IH cub ( 66 model, 12v ) one day. I ran out of gas and she rolled to a stop.. i turned her off, and walked.. got gas.. fueld her, got back on, and without thinkin gmuch turned her on and hit the starter. had left her in gear and pto engaged.. normally she takes 3-4 revs and some choke to start. this time started on half a rev and no choke and i was 'mowing' before i knew it. glad I wasn't at the end of a row or up against a fence.

The safety start ont he ford spoiled me!
 
You're going to need to tell us what a " three wire alt. side starter " is.

I know what a 3-wire alternator is.

I know what a starter is.

But I've never heard of a side starter.
50 Tips
 
(quoted from post at 18:53:41 11/02/12) can someone give me a good diagram for a three wire alt. side starter

Here

11937.jpg


Don't matter which side the genny/alt mounts all wided the same for a conversion.

Front or side mount refers to where the distributer is mounted.

Rick
 
Google "wiring diagrams by JMOR".
He has done an excellent job of making some very clear, easy to follow pictograms for them.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top