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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

How convert 8n to keyswitch start only

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trmccrary

10-21-2012 17:59:51
24.89.48.28



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Does anyone have a diagram of how to make 8n start by turning key on instead of push putton? My dad has it wired but it burns the switch up. Its a 3 wire alt. Its a 52 side mout dist. Thanks




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Royse

11-02-2012 20:15:05
69.36.49.151



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to Britcheflee, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
Google "wiring diagrams by JMOR".

He has done an excellent job of making some very clear, easy to follow pictograms for them.



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NoNewParts

10-25-2012 03:52:36
67.240.145.25



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to Hobo,NC, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

just my preference, but, whatever way the factory
had it on any brand tractor is how I leave it.
they probably had their reasons.

with that said, I start all brands, sizes, by standing next to them.

not recommended, but old habits are hard to break.

start it, let it warm up a bit, then use it

BUT, I always have it in neutral and the clutch dis-engaged.

(pull the lever, block of wood, etc.)

And SOP is to leave the mag grounded, or
switch off, for just a starter bump, or crank/flywheel twist

to help prime the cylinders.

If it nudges me, somethings wrong........

working on old unknown junk in the shop. one rear gets jacked up

before cranking.
I don't worry about myself

but I don't want it wrecking the shop.

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Royse

10-24-2012 21:10:34
69.36.49.151



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to W_B, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
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I was thinking about my JD, AC's and Farmall's, they don't have "neutral safety" interlocks.

Then again, they don't have key start switches either.

They have foot switches, or pull/push levers meant to be operated from the seat.

Still seems to me they're all safer left as and operated as designed.



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Jerry Kirkpatrick

10-23-2012 10:13:00
184.41.222.34



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to TOM N MS, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
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+1 :D
JK



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trmccrary

10-23-2012 09:04:48
65.66.65.161



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to trmccrary, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
Just want to let everyone know we will be wiring it back like it should be. Thanks for all the input.



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TheOldHokie

10-23-2012 08:21:51
108.8.18.125



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to TOM N MS, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
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If really you want it to be safe put a simple seat interlock switch on it :twisted:

TOH



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Jimps

10-23-2012 07:41:56
99.194.102.58



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to trmccrary, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
I would not use the key start unless you wired it in WITH the thumb start so you need both to start. Otherwise the thumb start is best.

from personal experience: I remember watching my Grandfather start his Farmall Super A (I have it now) by standing in front of the right rear tire and pulling the start lever to crank the tractor. I also remember watching him shake the shift lever back and forth to insure it was in neutral first. I got a Farmall 140 (very similar) and had pulled the shift cover and moved the gears around to diagnose a problem. I reinstalled the shift cover and had to slide the gears around to get it back on. When I went to start it, I stood in front of the right rear tire, shook the shift lever to make sure it was in neutral, then just before I pulled the start lever, I had a moment of concern and stepped back from in front of the rear tire and pulled the start lever. The tractor cranked and I then had to run after it and climb on it from the back to shut it off since I had inadvertently transposed one of the gears. Neutral was effectively 2nd gear! I am able to walk around and talk about this because I got lucky and moved out from in front of the rear tire. There was no way I would have been able to react to the tractor starting in gear and it would have run me over. I now sit in the seat of my Super A when I want to start it, every time! My 8Ns both have the thumb starts. One of them I replaced the same week of that incident.

As a tractor newbie I started out with a big bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. I moved some luck into experience that day. I just hope hope my bag of luck holds out until I fill my bag of experience.

Jimps in GA.

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thommoos

10-22-2012 14:10:10
216.226.180.3



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to trmccrary, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
Just undid mine



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R Geiger

10-22-2012 14:04:35
50.39.138.117



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to trmccrary, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
I have two 8ns and they both have the safety interlock working as it should. That said I also have a JD crawler that does not and never had any kind of safety interlock. No machine is any safer than the operator. The problem of removing it from an 8n is if someone else that is used to having it on an N goes to start it. One should always make double sure you have it out of gear no matter what you are starting. Safety devices can and have killed if taken for granted.

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Paul in Edmonton

10-22-2012 12:16:01
128.144.90.52



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to trmccrary, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
I'll agree with sounNdguy about the clutch--certainly not a safe option on an 8N. At least not mine...

But this reminds me about the car I had 15 years ago that I put a remote starter into. (For those of you in warm climates--a remote starter is a godsend in really cold weather!) The problem was that the car had a manual transmission. Those don't (or didn't then) have any sensor to tell if it was in neutral. There's a sensor on the clutch so you can't start it the normal way without stepping on the clutch. But that obviously needs to be bypassed for a remote starter. The solution that the remote starter's manufacturer came up with was in the procedure. If you wanted to be able to use the remote starter you had to "arm" it the last time you drove the car. You'd have to press the remote button while the engine was still running. That would allow you to turn the key to off and remove it, but it would leave the engine running. Then you'd have to get out and close all the doors. And then push the remote button to shut the engine off. Of course to do this, the car would have to be in neutral. But to ensure it stayed in neutral, if anyone opened any of the doors (there's a sensor for that--the one that turns the dome light on) between this time and the time you want to remote start the car, it would disarm the starter. A real PITA, but when it was -30, you'd remember to arm it every time! (On an automatic transmission, there was/is no arming necessary.)

-Paul

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Paul in Edmonton

10-22-2012 10:07:01
128.144.90.52



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to trmccrary, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
You guys should have talked to the PO of my tractor before he made his changes... It's been key start since I've had it, with no tranny lock-out. I think I'd be happier with the lock-out enabled. (Which, of course, shows the original poster that it's possible, even if it's not a good idea.)

-Paul



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oldtanker

10-22-2012 11:00:32
66.228.255.239



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to Paul in Edmonton, 10-22-2012 10:07:01  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

OK I like the safety lock out but it's very possible to convert to turn to start. Operators must know that it's turn to start as there are no safety locks. A guy could wire in a safety switch that would only work with the clutch depressed which ould be the only safe option.

I did convert a IH M to a push button switch even though the key switch is a turn to start.
Rick

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soundguy

10-22-2012 11:27:23
173.107.130.205



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to oldtanker, 10-22-2012 11:00:32  
pressing clutch to start as a safety?

what if your clutch is stuck = no safety.

oem setup won't start if trans is in gear.

if out of gear and stuck clutch = no problem.

being out of gear at start is the safe feature...



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oldtanker

10-23-2012 07:07:35
66.228.255.239



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to soundguy, 10-22-2012 11:27:23  
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OH, forgot, note I said a clutch safety COULD be used. I did not give any directions as far as parts needed or wiring to make the conversion. I was just throwing it out there that it could be done.

Rick



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oldtanker

10-23-2012 07:04:04
66.228.255.239



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to soundguy, 10-22-2012 11:27:23  
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Every new car and truck sold in the US has a clutch safety switch......every one! If the clutch sticks FIX IT! Clutchs on both of my 8N's work as they should so a clutch safety would work fine.

Did you note that I did say that I like the safety interlock on the tranny? Both of mine work as they did from the factory. I have no plans on changing that. I just said it could be done.

Rick

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soundguy

10-23-2012 07:25:39
107.41.221.7



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to oldtanker, 10-23-2012 07:04:04  
if you walk out to your tractor and set down on it to start it.. you have NO idea if it has had it's clutch setup over the weekend or not.

I've seen it happen.

a clutch safety is not as safe as the trans being in neutral.. no question about it.

if you KNOW it's stuck.. sure you can fix it.. but if you don't know?



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oldtanker

10-23-2012 09:03:15
66.228.255.239



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to soundguy, 10-23-2012 07:25:39  
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Well seeing as I've never had that happen, and I always put the tractor in N before hitting the starter anyway. But because I don't know the condition of others peoples stuff I would be the last person to tell you how to convert something over like. I really think Ford had the right idea with putting safeties on the Ns. Again thats why I didn't say how to do it but only that it could be done. I never try starting a tractor unless I'm setting on the seat.

Rick

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soundguy

10-23-2012 10:32:28
184.247.113.39



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to oldtanker, 10-23-2012 09:03:15  
I always press the clutch to start as well, because it's less drag.. however.. you give someone a no safety, key to start system.. and somewhere, somebody is gonna get rund over ;)



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oldtanker

10-24-2012 20:37:14
66.228.255.239



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to soundguy, 10-23-2012 10:32:28  
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LOL almost no tractors prior to the 60's had any type of stater safety system. In fact almost all of the folks that I've read about getting run over by a tractor was dumb stuff like getting on and off while the tractor was moving or jumping from a tractor that lost brakes or seemed about to roll. I've heard about one guy who got run over while starting a tractor while standing in front of the rear tire and hitting the starter.

Rick

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soundguy

10-25-2012 05:33:33
184.247.194.86



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to oldtanker, 10-24-2012 20:37:14  
i remember mowing on my IH cub ( 66 model, 12v ) one day. I ran out of gas and she rolled to a stop.. i turned her off, and walked.. got gas.. fueld her, got back on, and without thinkin gmuch turned her on and hit the starter. had left her in gear and pto engaged.. normally she takes 3-4 revs and some choke to start. this time started on half a rev and no choke and i was 'mowing' before i knew it. glad I wasn't at the end of a row or up against a fence.

The safety start ont he ford spoiled me!

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Dell (WA)

10-22-2012 09:44:17
97.113.110.225



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to trmccrary, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
trmccrary........I could but I know electricity and switches. The typical "twist-to-start" ignition switch supplies volts to the starter solenoid. The standard 8N BIG tranny thumb button GROUNDS the HOT solenoid to engage the Bendix solenoid. Just the OPPOSITE of yer typical twist-to-start automotive ignition switch which supplies volts. More better you pay attention to what others say about the SAFETY starter interlock scheme.

Most 8N starter problems are the single wire from middle of solenoid to the BIG starter thumb switch. It gitts BROKE from yer clod-hoppers kicking it as you climb aboard yer tractor. You doubt? Replace it with #14ga stranded automotive wire, enny color works just fine. Simple, eh? ........Dell, a 12V advocate for the right reasons who knows 8-ways to convert and they all work the first time

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Bruce (VA)

10-22-2012 07:09:45
24.125.80.178



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to trmccrary, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  

Here is the article in the N-News that soundguy & I wrote on replacing the thumb switch. Assuming yours needs to be replaced......and it might not.

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soundguy

10-22-2012 06:54:38
173.103.204.50



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to trmccrary, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
I agree with the others.

I'll tell you haow to convert it back to a themb starter.. likely a 20-30 $ issue if it needs a new thumb switch and soelnoid.. however it's safe.

the key to start systems bypass that safety..



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ZANE

10-22-2012 05:06:00
98.83.2.221



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to trmccrary, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
Don't do it! That push button the transmission is there to keep you from getting killed!

Zane



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HCooke

10-21-2012 19:59:06
70.195.65.67



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to trmccrary, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
I agree with the other posters. My latest has a automotive type of key start. As soon as my other projects are complete, I will put it back to original.



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carlntexas

10-21-2012 19:58:46
69.46.61.180



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to sHan tn, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
I use the automotive start switch on my 8N it's a better quality switch than the original, but I don't start it with the key switch. I wired it to start with the safety switch and recommend you do the same. Lot of things can happen when in a hurry or just forget and start it in gear and none of them are good.



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Bob Harvey

10-21-2012 18:59:54
209.91.107.204



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to trmccrary, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
Sorry, can't help, nor would I. A 'key only' starting system on a tractor, or lawn tractor likely doesn't exist. There may be a reason.



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Royse

10-21-2012 18:16:33
69.36.49.151



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to Well..John,PA, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
I agree with Bruce.
I had a few that came with a key switch and put them all back to using
the neutral safety switch for safety.

Its not hard or expensive to make them work right.



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Bruce (VA)

10-21-2012 18:06:27
24.125.80.178



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to trmccrary, 10-21-2012 17:59:51  
That's a good way to hurt yourself or someone else.

If the push button doesn't work, the tractor will start in gear.

It will probably cost you all of $25 to fix it correctly, if that.

I can help you fix it correctly if you would like to do that. Otherwise, someone else will be along to tell you how to wire it for a key start.

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trmccrary

11-02-2012 18:53:41
24.89.48.28



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to Bruce (VA), 10-21-2012 18:06:27  
can someone give me a good diagram for a three wire alt. side starter



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oldtanker

11-02-2012 19:39:34
66.228.255.239



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to trmccrary, 11-02-2012 18:53:41  
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Here


Don't matter which side the genny/alt mounts all wided the same for a conversion.

Front or side mount refers to where the distributer is mounted.

Rick



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Bruce (VA)

11-02-2012 19:01:33
24.125.80.178



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to trmccrary, 11-02-2012 18:53:41  
You're going to need to tell us what a " three wire alt. side starter " is.

I know what a 3-wire alternator is.

I know what a starter is.

But I've never heard of a side starter.



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trmccrary

11-02-2012 20:48:30
24.89.48.28



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 Re: How convert 8n to keyswitch start only in reply to Bruce (VA), 11-02-2012 19:01:33  
sorry meant distributor



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