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finishsuper 08-07-2012 09:02:39 173.86.10.175 Report to Moderator	Trying to help my father get his 9N back up and running so he can get his round bales stored away. Here are the particulars: 6V positive ground system, front mount distributor, new spark plugs The tractor has been running during the spring and early summer, skidding logs. The only problem has been some parasitic battery drain, that has been dealt with by unhooking the battery (both poles) after use. Dad called me last week and said tractor won't start at all. (He even tried jumping the starter, but no use). I put the tester on the battery and got a good 6V, but when I tested the starter terminal, it was nothing. Did some tightening and cleaning of the negative terminal and cable and read 6V there. Hit the starter and she turned over (Dad wasn't able to get the starter switch to work, due to the battery connection). Pulled a plug wire and inserted a spare, got a good white spark. Tractor rolled and wanted to fire, but wasn't able and we ran the battery down. I told Dad to buy some new plugs, figuring we probably gummed the installed ones pretty bad. He bought a set, installed them and the tractor fired right off. After a few minutes though, it sputtered and died. He hit the starter again, and she started, ran a bit and died. I had him pull the fuel line and let it run for a bit- full pipe. Then he re-attached and pulled the carb drain and let it run. Good flow and steady. Doing some reading this am........ could we have a bad condenser? Or is there somewhere else I need to test and concentrate on? I don't like swapping parts hoping to find a solution, but condensers are cheap. (Just not easy to swap out on a front mount). Thanks in advance. [Reply]   [No Email]
finishsuper 08-09-2012 08:17:53 173.86.10.175 Report to Moderator	Re: Ford 9N Only runs a few mins..... in reply to finishsuper, 08-07-2012 09:02:39   Update: We ran a small test for fuel flow, measuring the amount that ran from the fuel line for 1 minute, and then from the drain in the carb for 1 minute. There was a significant difference. Took the carb apart and cleaned it, and the reinstalled, and ran the test over. Much better results. Started the tractor and let it run for 10 minutes. Then down the driveway and back (~75 yards). Running like a champ. Thanks all for the input and information. Greatly appreciated!! [Reply]  [No Email]
Bruce (VA) 08-09-2012 10:39:18 24.125.80.178 Report to Moderator	Re: Ford 9N Only runs a few mins..... in reply to finishsuper, 08-09-2012 08:17:53   Tnx for the follow up. Glad to hear you got it running. Now you can concentrate on solving the problem: why was the carb clogged? Did you clean/replace the fuel screens? If not, it will not be running for long. And if the fuel screens were clogged w/ rust, then it's time to line or replace the gas tank. Was it dirt in the carb? Did you clean/replace the air filter media, replace the gasket & change the oil in the breather? That carb didn't just clog up spontaneously. 50 Tips [Reply]  [No Email]
soundguy 08-07-2012 11:02:38 173.105.66.5 Report to Moderator	Re: Ford 9N Only runs a few mins..... in reply to finishsuper, 08-07-2012 09:02:39   if the condensor was bad, the points would burn and you'd have to clean them to restart. sounds the world like she's starving for fuel. check inthe carb, if you have good flow to the carb. [Reply]  [No Email]
Dell (WA) 08-07-2012 09:22:04 63.226.213.236 Report to Moderator	Re: Ford 9N Only runs a few mins..... in reply to finishsuper, 08-07-2012 09:02:39   finishsuper........you do know ittza 2-bolt, 15-min job to remove yer weird 4-nipple frontmount dizzy and change and adjust the points (0.015") on the kitchen table, don't you? Just un-snapple yer capple and letter dangle. Installation is a reversal of the removal ...except... finger start the 2-bolts and install the rotor. Rotate the rotor until the OFFSET drive tang fits into the OFFSET drive slot. Now tighten the 2-bolts and re-snapple yer capple. Simple, eh? While condensers are known to be BAD right outta the box, unfortunately there is NO simple test fer shadetree mechanic. There are 3-types of BAD condensers; 1) BAD outta the box, it never starts; 2) slowly goes BAD innna'bout 1-min, leaking oil electrolite; 3) BAD and burns points, internally OPEN. While replacing FLOODED sparkies is a good first start. Clean'n'dry them one-atta-time in HOT running engine. Yer description is consistent with LOW gas in carb. BTW, you did check the gas level in the fuel tank didn't you??? Remember; 2-turns ON the under the tank glass fuel filter valve. .........HTH, Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister [Reply]  [No Email]
finishsuper 08-07-2012 09:31:00 173.86.10.175 Report to Moderator	Re: Ford 9N Only runs a few mins..... in reply to Dell (WA), 08-07-2012 09:22:04   Thanks for the reply Dell. My first thought was that the float in the carb was sticking. Gave Dad the ole "tap it with a hammer trick", but that didn't seem to help. He did pull the carb and checked the float to make sure it was moving freely. Also, he is a stickler about keeping the gas tank full. I'm always hopeful for a "mechanical" problem, rather than an "electrical" one, because I'm just a tad bit more at ease turning a wrench than using a meter. Question: If the condenser was bad and leaving the points open, would that account for the parasitic battery drain as well? Again, thanks for the info and help. [Reply]  [No Email]
Bruce (VA) 08-07-2012 09:58:40 24.125.80.178 Report to Moderator	Re: Ford 9N Only runs a few mins..... in reply to finishsuper, 08-07-2012 09:31:00   " Question: If the condenser was bad and leaving the points open, would that account for the parasitic battery drain as well?" No The condenser is in the ignition circuit; your battery draining problem is in the starting/charging circuit. Replace the cut-out. As to the no-start problem, the very first thing you need to do is get the battery fully charged. You need a strong battery to: Spin the starter Engage the bendix Provide voltage to the coil. As the battery gets weaker, the first thing to fail is your spark. In addition to charging the battery, chances are you need new cables as well (tip # 41). And, don't forget to clean all the grounds, to include the mating area between the starter & the block. The more current you use to spin the starter, the less you have for the ignition. It takes three things for an engine to run: spark at the right time, compression, & fuel in the right mixture. For the moment, forget about compression & concentrate on narrowing the problem down to spark or fuel. There are three very important tools you always need to have in your N tool box: a 3 inch piece of wire w/ alligator clips on each end, an old spark plug w/ the gap opened to at least 3/16” ( ¼” is better) and a 7/16 box end wrench. (see tip # 50 at the link below) And, you really do need a working ammeter on the tractor; it is a very important diagnostic tool. With these tools, you can quickly narrow down most N problems to spark or fuel. Next time it stops, check quickly for fuel then spark. When I say quickly, I mean get off the seat, grab the tools & do it right then. Do not wait a minute or two. First, check for fuel. Get a can & put it under the carb. Remove the bolt in the bottom of the carb; as long as the fuel is turned on, you should see gas flowing out of the carb. Let it run for at least 30 seconds. If it’s a dribble, or runs for 5 seconds & stops, or none at all, you have solved half the problem: it’s fuel related. If gas flows well out of the carb & only stops when you turn it off at the sediment bowl, chances are very good it’s not a fuel problem. So, next, turn the key on, crank the engine & look at the ammeter. What is the needle doing? Does it show a constant discharge, no movement at all, or does it move back & forth slightly? Next, get the old plug, ground it to a rust & paint free spot on the engine, turn the key on & crank the engine. If the spark jumps the 3/16” gap, you probably don’t have a spark problem. If it won’t jump the 3/16” gap, you have a spark problem. If the ammeter needle shows a constant discharge, or doesn’t move at all, that also tells you that you have a spark problem. Jump the ignition switch w/ your jumper wire & see what happens. If it runs, you found the problem. If it doesn’t have spark after you jump the ignition switch, post back for more info on further troubleshooting. (and do not forget to turn the ignition switch off; see tip # 38) If it does not have gas coming out of the carb at a steady stream w/ the bolt out for at least 30 seconds, you have a fuel problem. First, remove the gas cap. Your vent could be clogged & it vacuum locked. If that doesn’t work, tap the carb bowl w/ a hammer handle in case the float is sticking closed. (don’t whack it w/ the head of the hammer; you can crack the bowl). If you still don’t see gas flowing, the N has three fuel screens; one in the brass elbow, one in the top of the sediment bowl & one on the stem of the sediment bowl in the gas tank. Check the screen in the elbow & the screen in the top of the sediment bowl. (don’t worry about the one in the tank) Both probably need to be cleaned. If you have the fuel knob turned on all the way, & 1 gallon or less in the tank, it may be trying to feed off of the reserve inlet which is probably clogged. Only open it 2 full turns. Put at least 2 gallons in the tank. (and do not forget to turn the gas off; see tip # 9) There are ways to check for spark & fuel that work & ways that don't. For example, having gas to the carb is nice, but having it past the float is what counts! That’s why removing the 7/16” bolt in the bottom of the carb is the way to check for fuel. And, same thing w/ spark at the plugs. Some folks think that checking for spark means pulling a plug wire off & looking for one. Well, it's the distance the spark jumps at the plug that gives you the info you want. It takes about 17kv to jump a 3/16" gap & 22kv to jump ¼” in the open air. Remember, it’s 14psi outside of the engine & about 90psi at a 6:1 compression ratio in the cylinders & compressed air creates electrical resistance, so you really need the 17-22kv to fire the plugs when the engine is running. A store bought plug checker will work better than an old plug because it won’t shock the snot out of you like an old plug might! 50 Tips [Reply]  [No Email]