Author	[Modern View]
Mike Griffiths 05-29-2012 16:31:57 75.37.66.232 Report to Moderator	Starter on my 9N quit. As I loosened the starter,water started dripping down. After removing the starter, I discovered a one inch diameter hole in the engine block where the starter motor touches it. Has the block actually rusted through, or is something supposed to be in that hole? Thanks for help. [Reply]   [No Email]
Jimps 06-05-2012 11:09:53 216.166.222.115 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to Mike Griffiths, 05-29-2012 16:31:57   Mike, I had the exact same problem 2 years ago. Here is a link to my post with some pictures about how to remove the other plugs. I hope this helps. http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=591942 It was my first experience with these plugs. Make sure you flush the block good while you have them out. Jimps in GA. [Reply]  [No Email]
Scott(Ks.) 06-04-2012 19:49:06 38.100.179.114 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to Mike Griffiths, 05-29-2012 16:31:57   "Everyone's ignorant, only on different subjects." Will Rogers [Reply]  [No Email]
Den N Ms 05-30-2012 18:41:24 184.41.136.215 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to Mike Griffiths, 05-29-2012 16:31:57   Mike,I found this for you,not the best but you will get the idea. 8N welsh plugs1 2 3 4 [Reply]  [No Email]
Mike Griffiths 05-31-2012 20:05:45 75.37.66.232 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to Den N Ms, 05-30-2012 18:41:24   Thanks a lot. I went out and bought some plugs, so I learned a lot from those, then the video answered some more questions. I think I can successfully install one now, but not sure the best way to remove them if I decide to replace them all, as was suggested. Looks like I could drill a hoe in the middle of it, then stick in a screwdriver or something and just pry like crazy all the way around. P.S. still laughing about the "freeze plug" controversy - I've been driving this tractor for 20 years without even knowing there were holes in the block, let alone whether they were "freeze plug" or sand casting holes! [Reply]  [No Email]
JMOR 05-30-2012 16:00:47 72.190.9.193 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to Jim in Michigan, 05-29-2012 16:31:57   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeMany people know that. Go to store and ask for a sand cast hole plug (or even a Welch plug) & you will soon learn why people call them freeze plugs! [Reply]  [No Email]
36 coupe 05-30-2012 15:43:41 72.55.252.209 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to Mike Griffiths, 05-29-2012 16:31:57   These holes are used to remove the sand pattern that is used when the block is cast.I cant understand why any one is so numb that they think they are freeze plugs. [Reply]  [No Email]
oldtanker 05-31-2012 06:16:51 66.228.255.239 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to 36 coupe, 05-30-2012 15:43:41   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see 36, cause many people were told and believe that these plugs will give before the cast keeping the block from cracking should it freeze. Most never wonder why 99% of the time the block cracks anyway. Heck most pro mechs I know call em freeze plugs and most people who don't work on anything have no idea that they are even there. Rick [Reply]  [No Email]
36 coupe 05-31-2012 15:23:22 72.55.252.209 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to oldtanker, 05-31-2012 06:16:51   If you use a machine you should have a basic understanding of how it works. [Reply]  [No Email]
oldtanker 05-31-2012 21:55:30 66.228.255.239 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to 36 coupe, 05-31-2012 15:23:22   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Think of how many people who use a car daily and can't even change the oil....some don't even know how to check it. Rick [Reply]  [No Email]
Ron/PA 06-01-2012 12:58:23 108.8.112.160 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to oldtanker, 05-31-2012 21:55:30   Damn, it really seems like some posters on here spend more time telling folks how smart they are, how stupid the posters are, and how much the whole world doesn't know about their N's than actually helping new N owners. Then the poster with a question has to read through a litany of back and forth arguments between a couple "EXPERTS" to ever find an answer to his question. For a fair portion of the posters, these aren't farm equipment, they're hobbyists that recently ran into a new to them situation. Had anybody answered my questions this way when we started farming with N's a loooong time ago, I'd have figured the tractors were junk, and the owners were pricks. For what it's worth, if you froze an engine, and it was a fairly new engine, or a rebuild with newly installed plugs, they would pop out before the block would crack. There was no reason for them not to and I've seen it quite often. Lighten up folks, you're starting to turn into the JD board. This post was edited by Ron/PA at 13:00:27 06/01/12. [Reply]  [No Email]
36 coupe 06-01-2012 17:24:15 72.55.252.209 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to Ron/PA, 06-01-2012 12:58:23   Ice expands every where in the block. not just in a few small holes.The Model A block will crack in the same places in a freeze up.I looked at dozer block that had cracked.None of your so called freeze plugs popped out.Many posters dont know S fom S.First engine I worked on had a cracked head from freeze up.I have an old JD B head in the shop that is cracked from freeze up.Makes a good light duty anvil.My 9N parts book calls them plugs,no mention of freeze. [Reply]  [No Email]
Ron/PA 06-02-2012 04:54:16 108.57.33.139 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to 36 coupe, 06-01-2012 17:24:15   What I said was that before rust sets them fast ice will push them out. It won't save a block, but I have seen them push out if newly installed. Now you can go back to calling everyone stupid. [Reply]  [No Email]
36 coupe 06-02-2012 16:23:52 72.55.252.209 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to Ron/PA, 06-02-2012 04:54:16   I have replaced more of these plugs than you have ever looked at.They rust out fast in southern cars that dont use anti freeze.An adult man that uses a tractor should know how to take care of it.The recent post on king pin bushings proves my point.You said the plugs will save the block.Thats wrong. [Reply]  [No Email]
Ron/PA 06-03-2012 05:16:04 108.57.24.195 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to 36 coupe, 06-02-2012 16:23:52   Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see No I didn't say that. I said a freshly installed plug would pop before the block would crack. NOT SAVE THE BLOCK! The block will still crack. See which is easier, pulling a plug out, or shoving a screwdriver through the side of a block. You've got to be really old to have replaced that many plugs. [Reply]  [No Email]
36 coupe 06-04-2012 02:27:53 72.55.252.209 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to Ron/PA, 06-03-2012 05:16:04   I was working for a Ford dealer when the the 57 Ford was new. [Reply]  [No Email]
36 coupe 06-01-2012 03:21:00 72.55.252.209 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to oldtanker, 05-31-2012 21:55:30   You cant run farm equipment that way.You have to know how to fix it.Farm equipment repair is 18 miles and 90 bucks an hour away from here. [Reply]  [No Email]
Den N Ms 05-29-2012 19:20:37 184.41.136.215 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to Mike Griffiths, 05-29-2012 16:31:57   Mike,Welch freeze plugs Ford part No 353454-s 1-3/16" NAPA part # 219-1021. If you have one thats gone bad,rusted out ect.Replace them all or you will be doing it again one day.Remove them all ,then flush out the block with a water hose good,before installing the new ones [Reply]  [No Email]
Mike Griffiths 05-30-2012 12:36:59 75.37.66.232 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to Den N Ms, 05-29-2012 19:20:37   Thanks a lot for the information. More closely examining the hole, it appears that remnants of the plug are still there, but most of it is all rusted out. Replacing them all sounds like a good idea, but how do you get them out? They seem like part of the block, but that is probably because they have been painted over. I'm guessing that I would use a flat screwdriver or chisel and get under the lip (I'm assuming there is a lip). Maybe I should just go buy them, then I could tell what they look like. Thanks again, Mike [Reply]  [No Email]
JMOR 05-29-2012 16:59:56 72.190.9.193 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to oldtanker, 05-29-2012 16:31:57   this shows 4, but not all engines have same number, 3 is common, have heard of 2 and have a photo of engine with none. [Reply]  [No Email]
Mike Griffiths 05-30-2012 12:29:30 75.37.66.232 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to JMOR, 05-29-2012 16:59:56   Thanks so much for your photo upload. I had never heard of the "Welsh Plugs" before, but my tractor appears to have 4 of them, just as shown in your photo. [Reply]  [No Email]
8Nr--WI 05-29-2012 16:46:29 75.9.168.167 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to Mike Griffiths, 05-29-2012 16:31:57   Look at the ground below the tractor and see if you can find a "freeze plug"....don't know 100% about the 9N's, but the 8N's have a freeze plug behind the starter... Tim [Reply]  [No Email]
Mike Griffiths 05-30-2012 12:46:18 75.37.66.232 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to 8Nr--WI, 05-29-2012 16:46:29   Thanks Tim, Apparantly it is a freeze plug hole right behind the starter, just like your 8N. The case of the starter had about 1/4" of caked on rust at that point, and the block around the freeze plug hole is also caked with rust. I started poking at the hole with a screwdriver, and I guess whatever was left of the freeze plug just disintegrated. Based on other posts, I'm going to attempt to remove all the plugs, flush the block, and install new ones. Thanks again, Mike [Reply]  [No Email]
8Nr--WI 05-29-2012 16:52:29 75.9.168.167 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to 8Nr--WI, 05-29-2012 16:46:29   Here is some good info if you find that the welch plug is gone. Link to the Fix [Reply]  [No Email]
Mike Griffiths 05-30-2012 12:50:18 75.37.66.232 Report to Moderator	Re: Hole in side of engine block 9N in reply to 8Nr--WI, 05-29-2012 16:52:29   Thanks a lot for the link - it was also a big help! [Reply]  [No Email]