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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

1952 8n timing

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SAshby

11-03-2011 11:16:28
168.244.164.254



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Can anyone help me figure out how to set the timing on my 8n? it is very hard to start, been through all areas outside the motor carb,plugs,distributor, etc... Just want to make sure i have the timing correct. Did the whole #1 plug top dead center and ligned up the pointer on the distributor to get going and still hard to start. Also what would be causing gas to leak out the bottom of the carb during start up?

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JMOR

11-04-2011 10:58:39
72.181.167.250



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 Re: 1952 8n timing in reply to Mike OH, 11-03-2011 11:16:28  
Bill, now you know you can't see the piston like that. "Get number one cylinder on the compression stroke and look through the spark plug hole to determine when the piston is TDC. "





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DollarBill

11-04-2011 11:15:22
98.70.47.134



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 Re: 1952 8n timing in reply to JMOR, 11-04-2011 10:58:39  
I was fairly sure I'd done this on an "N" before but I must have it confused with some other engine - No arguing with the pixs.

Sorry for the confusion.



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DollarBill

11-04-2011 10:43:56
98.70.47.134



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 Re: 1952 8n timing in reply to SAshby, 11-03-2011 11:16:28  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

When it's coming up on the compression stroke, the pressure will blow your finger off the spark plug hole. You won't feel that on the exhaust stroke as the exhaust valve is open and the pressure will take the path of least resistance.

In your original post you mentioned "Did the whole #1 plug top dead center and ligned up the pointer on the distributor to get going and still hard to start." Just curious - Without your flywheel being marked, how did you determine TDC?

It's not the end of the world not to be able to set your ignition timing with a timing light. As Dean indicated, it only needs to be close to start.

Get number one cylinder on the compression stroke and look through the spark plug hole to determine when the piston is TDC.
Install the distributor with the rotor pointing in the general direction of the number one spark plug tower on the distributor cap. Leave the distributor clamp loose enough to rotate the distributor with a firm hand.

Button up the distributor and verify the plug wires are plugged into the correct tower on your distributor cap. The firing order is 1-2-4-3 and the distributor turns counter clockwise. Cylinders are numbered sequentially front to rear with number one being closest to the radiator.

You might want to enlist the help of an assistant to handle the key and starter button - Try starting the engine while rotating the distributor. After it starts and is warmed up. Shut it down and see how it starts. You may have to do this a couple of times to find the sweet spot. 4 degrees BTDC is only a recommended setting - It's not always optimum.

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SAshby

11-04-2011 11:09:22
168.244.164.254



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 Re: 1952 8n timing in reply to DollarBill, 11-04-2011 10:43:56  
I removed the #1 piston, held finger over it and felt for the piston to come up on what i thought was the compression stroke. I didnt check to see if both valves were closed or not. And just set the distributor in the middle. Checked my points and adjusted to what i thought was right.



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JMOR

11-04-2011 09:24:34
72.181.167.250



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 Re: 1952 8n timing in reply to 8N'r--WI, 11-03-2011 11:16:28  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeLook at this video...when #1 is at TDC, you see that the Intake & Exhaust valves, on #4, are on what some refer to as the 'rock', that is one is closing as the other is opening. Toward end of the video the engine is being rotated forward & backwards around #1 TDC (as is evidenced by the rooster walking fwd/backwards). Now, you don't have head off, but with a mirror, you can see the #4 I/Ex valves thru the spark plug hole. This is about as close as you can get on an assembled flathead engine.

[URL=http://s192.photobucket.com/albums/z232/JMOR_photo/Engine/?action=view&current=TDC_No1_when_4_on_the_rock-2.mp4][/URL]

Timing marks on flywheel:

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DollarBill

11-04-2011 03:33:09
98.70.47.134



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 Re: 1952 8n timing in reply to SAshby, 11-03-2011 11:16:28  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

As Dean stated, the marks are often lightly stamped and hard to find if the flywheel has rusted through the years.
To help get you in the ball park - Remove the number one plug and with your finger over the plug hole, bump the starter (key off of course). When you feel compression, use a flashlight to look for timing marks on the flywheel. If your fan belt is tight enough, you should be able to turn the motor with the fan.
Once you locate the marks, use the following method to adjust your timing:

Disconnect the wire from the coil to the side of the distributor.
Connect one lead of analog ohm meter to ground and the other to the post on the distributor.
Turn the flywheel to your desired timing mark 4 degrees BTDC.
Rotate the distributor housing and watch for the needle deflection. Desired reading is somewhere between good point contact and open.
Tighten the distributor bolt down, reconnect the wire from the coil and you should be about as close to perfect timing as you can get.

If you are still unable to locate the timing marks - It's possible that someone replaced the original flywheel with one from a front mount distributor.

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SAshby

11-04-2011 08:07:59
168.244.164.254



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 Re: 1952 8n timing in reply to DollarBill, 11-04-2011 03:33:09  
How can I tell that im on the compression stroke? shouldnt i feel compression on both (exhaust stroke also)? I just dont want to have my distributor 180 out. also if the flywheel has been replaced and does not have any timing marks does this mean I am SOL?



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Jerry/MT

11-03-2011 13:10:13
206.183.116.145



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 Re: 1952 8n timing in reply to SAshby, 11-03-2011 11:16:28  
Did you make sure that you were on the compression stroke?



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Dean

11-03-2011 12:21:31
152.216.3.5



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 Re: 1952 8n timing in reply to SAshby, 11-03-2011 11:16:28  
Unless far from specification, ignition will have little effect upon starting.

That said, the timing should be set to 4 degrees BTDC at 450 RPM or less.

If you do not have a timing light, post back and I or someone wlse will describe how to accurately set the timing with the engine not running.

Follow Bruce's advice concerning the spark plugs. If you have badly flooded the engine with todays gasoline you will need to sandblast or replace the plugs unless you can get the engine started so as to run it up to operating temperature.

Dean

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Bruce (VA)

11-03-2011 11:26:17
24.125.80.178



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 Re: 1952 8n timing in reply to SAshby, 11-03-2011 11:16:28  
" Also what would be causing gas to leak out the bottom of the carb during start up? "

Too much choke which causes the plugs to foul & makes it hard to start.

First, replace the plugs. If you flooded it, they're fouled & it will be it next to impossible to start. You don't need to toss them; heat the tips for a few seconds w/ a propane torch to burn off the invisible spark-robbing deposits from today's additive filled gasoline........or wash them in lacquer thinner.

The usual cause of gas dripping out of the carb throat is operator error. While each N has it's own starting sequence, none of them will start well by just yanking out the choke rod & holding it out for 5 or 10 seconds while the engine cranks. This is an updraft carb w/ a gravity fuel system; it is by it's very nature subject to flooding. Too much choke makes it happen.

Try this:

Key on, gas on 2 full turns, clutch in, 3/4 throttle, press the starter button. Let it crank for at least 3 - 4 seconds before you pull the choke rod. Then, don't hold it out for more than 2 or 3 seconds.

" Just want to make sure i have the timing correct. "

Unless you screwed w/it by loosening the bolt on the distributor, chances are very good that it's fine. Chances are better that it has a points problem. Check the gap & alignment.

You have described 'static' timing. What I think you want is dynamic timing w/ the engine running. To to that, you need a timing light. Got one?

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SAshby

11-03-2011 12:35:11
168.244.164.254



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 Re: 1952 8n timing in reply to Bruce (VA), 11-03-2011 11:26:17  
I do have a good adjustable timing light. I have checked the cover on the side of the tractor, opened it, spun the motor over but found no timing marks? does this make sense? the tractor came from some distant family who said they have had it rebuilt recently (last 5 years).



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Dean

11-03-2011 12:47:08
152.216.3.5



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 Re: 1952 8n timing in reply to SAshby, 11-03-2011 12:35:11  
Timing marks are on the flywheel in two places but are often difficult to see.

I use a parts cleaning brush and gasoline to clean the flywheel surface with the engine running before marking the 4 degree BTDC (compression stroke) mark with white paint.

Dean



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