- Thread starter Duggan
- Start date
hen the arrangement is "suck thru the carb, into the blower, then blower into engine, the carb can be made to work, BUT blower pumping into carb, then carb to engine will TOTALLY upset the fuel metering/bowl pressure system. Where this has been done with Paxton blowers, Studebaker, Thunderbird, etc., the procedure is to put the carb inside a box & pressurize the box, thus keeping a balance in the carb throat/nozzle & bowl pressures.
Respectfully, I"m not so sure about that JMOR. The M-S carb is a pressure balanced design. That means that the carb inlet is connected to the fuel bowl via some large vents. This was done to make the carb metering insensitive to air cleaner restriction. The carb meters on delta p not the abolute level of pressure. The absolute pressure has some other effects (Reynolds Number effects)however.
You would, however, need to rejet the carb becaused of the increased airflow with a blower no matter where you put it relative to the carb. Rejetting will be the tricky part of this type of modification. I think the where you put the blower relative to the carb will be determined by the ability to keep it sealed if you place it behind the blower. It"s really not mechanically designed to be pressurized.
Then you have to deal with some cooling concerns also because the peak as tempertures are going to be a bit higher depending on how much boost you apply. Then there are the increased loads on the mechanical components......
Anyway, it"s an interesting problem.
You would, however, need to rejet the carb becaused of the increased airflow with a blower no matter where you put it relative to the carb. Rejetting will be the tricky part of this type of modification. I think the where you put the blower relative to the carb will be determined by the ability to keep it sealed if you place it behind the blower. It"s really not mechanically designed to be pressurized.
Then you have to deal with some cooling concerns also because the peak as tempertures are going to be a bit higher depending on how much boost you apply. Then there are the increased loads on the mechanical components......
Anyway, it"s an interesting problem.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
have you ever ran the numbers as to the CFM requirements of a N series engine and compaired that to the CFM of air supplied by a smog pump?
The smog pump comes up very short of providing enough air to raise intake manifold PSI.
You claim to be a engineer so I would have expected better from you.
The smog pump comes up very short of providing enough air to raise intake manifold PSI.
You claim to be a engineer so I would have expected better from you.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
Really?? A smog pump? Maybe I am thinking of something different, but the smog pumps I am familiar with do nothing more than push a bit of fresh air into the exhaust manifold to help finish the process of combustion. I can't see how one of those would ever pump more air than what a naturally aspirated 8n engine would displace.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
I think an electric heater blower fan would move more air than a smog pump, and that trick has also been tried unsuccessfully.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
And I've dis-assembled smog pumps from both a 351 Ford AND a 390 Ford. Niether is capable of blowing a hat off your head.
John Smith8N
Member
I'm with JMOR. You can Google all sorts of hits about Steven Richman's pipe dream, but you never find anyone who has actually tried it or made it work. He says it would take 4 to 6 of them to help the average V8. So that's 2 of them on an 8N? Where are you going to mount one, let alone 2 of them. You'd need all sorts of belt drive engineering to get them working. No way to filter the air intake. Would need a lot of creative plumbing to get the dusty air around and into the carb. On a 2000 rpm engine how much good could it do? It would take more power to turn them than you would ever gain. The whole idea is a dud. But, I'd love to see somebody do it and show some dyno results to prove me wrong. It would definitely look like one of Red Green's Possum Lodge creations.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
well then I do it for you.... even the largest smog pump is rated at less then 50 CFM.
Your N engine uses over 100CFM of air. Explain to me how you achive a increase in manifold PSI.
Your N engine uses over 100CFM of air. Explain to me how you achive a increase in manifold PSI.
The cfm rating you refer to is for one corrected speed and a given effective discharge area on the smog pump. The pump will suppy more or less flow dependent on the corrected speed and discharge effective area. If the 50 cfs you refer to is for a relatively small discharge area and a low corrected speed, then more flow is avaiable with a more open area and a higher corrected speed.
You really have to see the pressure-flow map ( pressure ratio versus corrected flow for various corrected rpms) to see if, with a less restricted compressor exhaust and a higher speed, you can meet the engine flow requiements. I wouldn"t be so quick to dismiss this idea without more data.
in my opinion, it"s an interesting academic problem and nothing more. To me, it looks like a solution in search of a problem however.
You really have to see the pressure-flow map ( pressure ratio versus corrected flow for various corrected rpms) to see if, with a less restricted compressor exhaust and a higher speed, you can meet the engine flow requiements. I wouldn"t be so quick to dismiss this idea without more data.
in my opinion, it"s an interesting academic problem and nothing more. To me, it looks like a solution in search of a problem however.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
you dont work on many turboed engines I see
Fuddy Duddy
Well-known Member
I love your reference to "Red Green's Possum Lodge" I use to find
their tape and incorporate it in the lesson plan. While the show
didn't provide must for leaning content. But it did in way. But I
would put the in the move to the lesson plan. It would get the
students interest
. Which if you can do that , you got three battle haft won. It was
a Carpentry class of 10th thru 12th grades. With students
coming from up to 5 difference High Schools. Talk about gang
war troubles?
Well, I didn't want to get off on that. Seem the idear could be
tested using an air compressor. Find out what the gan is and
then the the replicate the into the tractor as needed. It reallly
just a matter of have much air needs to be moved and what is
going to move it
their tape and incorporate it in the lesson plan. While the show
didn't provide must for leaning content. But it did in way. But I
would put the in the move to the lesson plan. It would get the
students interest
. Which if you can do that , you got three battle haft won. It was
a Carpentry class of 10th thru 12th grades. With students
coming from up to 5 difference High Schools. Talk about gang
war troubles?
Well, I didn't want to get off on that. Seem the idear could be
tested using an air compressor. Find out what the gan is and
then the the replicate the into the tractor as needed. It reallly
just a matter of have much air needs to be moved and what is
going to move it
ou are correct & it is trivial to calculate the 'maximum' that the engine needs, BUT no one has verifiable, hard numbers on the smog pump output volume at various RPM & pressures, or volumetric efficiency of the engine, so we are at a point where rumor & speculation rules!
I just read the article and the author talks about running them at 8000 rpm and needing to use multiple units. He claims to have rigged one up on a go kart engine.
His idea is a cheap way to get some boost on some relatively small engines but thinks that with multiple units he can boost bigger displacment engines.
Again,for something like a N series tractor I think, this is a solution looking for problem.
His idea is a cheap way to get some boost on some relatively small engines but thinks that with multiple units he can boost bigger displacment engines.
Again,for something like a N series tractor I think, this is a solution looking for problem.
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