Yesterday's Tractor Co. Same-Day Parts Shipping Available
Click Here or call 800-853-2651 
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 
Marketplace
Classified Ads
Photo Ads

Community
Discussion Forums
Project Journals
Tractor Town
Your Stories
Show & Pull Guide
Events Calendar
Hauling Schedule

Galleries
Tractor Photos
Implement Photos
Vintage Photos
Help Identify
Parts & Pieces
Stuck & Troubled
Vintage Ads
Community Album
Photo Ad Archives

Research & Info
Articles
Tractor Registry
Tip of the Day
Safety Cartoons
Tractor Values
Serial Numbers
Tune-Up Guide
Paint Codes
List Prices
Production Nbrs
Tune-Up Specs
Torque Values
3-Point Specs
Glossary

Miscellaneous
Tractor Games
Just For Kids
Virtual Show
Museum Guide
Memorial Page
Feedback Form

Yesterday's Tractors Facebook Page

Related Sites
Tractor Shed
TractorLinks.com
Ford 8N/9N Club
Today's Tractors
Garden Tractors
Classic Trucks
Kountry Life
Enter your email address to receive our newsletter!

subscribe
unsubscribe
  
Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

supercharging an 8N?

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author  [Modern View]
Duggan

02-15-2011 08:18:37
71.173.12.197



Report to Moderator

Bringing this back from the dead. Do you have to add a electric fuel pump rather than the gravity fead tank ?




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
JMOR

02-16-2011 18:08:13
72.181.165.238



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to John in Mich, 02-15-2011 08:18:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeYou are correct & it is trivial to calculate the 'maximum' that the engine needs, BUT no one has verifiable, hard numbers on the smog pump output volume at various RPM & pressures, or volumetric efficiency of the engine, so we are at a point where rumor & speculation rules!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
John Smith8N

02-16-2011 12:02:48
75.23.118.65



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to Jerry/MT, 02-15-2011 08:18:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
I'm with JMOR. You can Google all sorts of hits about Steven Richman's pipe dream, but you never find anyone who has actually tried it or made it work. He says it would take 4 to 6 of them to help the average V8. So that's 2 of them on an 8N? Where are you going to mount one, let alone 2 of them. You'd need all sorts of belt drive engineering to get them working. No way to filter the air intake. Would need a lot of creative plumbing to get the dusty air around and into the carb. On a 2000 rpm engine how much good could it do? It would take more power to turn them than you would ever gain. The whole idea is a dud. But, I'd love to see somebody do it and show some dyno results to prove me wrong. It would definitely look like one of Red Green's Possum Lodge creations.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Fuddy Duddy

02-16-2011 17:38:52
75.207.92.59



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to John Smith8N, 02-16-2011 12:02:48  
I love your reference to "Red Green's Possum Lodge" I use to find their tape and incorporate it in the lesson plan. While the show didn't provide must for leaning content. But it did in way. But I would put the in the move to the lesson plan. It would get the students interest
. Which if you can do that , you got three battle haft won. It was a Carpentry class of 10th thru 12th grades. With students coming from up to 5 difference High Schools. Talk about gang war troubles?
Well, I didn't want to get off on that. Seem the idear could be tested using an air compressor. Find out what the gan is and then the the replicate the into the tractor as needed. It reallly just a matter of have much air needs to be moved and what is going to move it

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
rustyfarmall

02-16-2011 11:54:44
209.152.78.140



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to DollarBill, 02-15-2011 08:18:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

And I've dis-assembled smog pumps from both a 351 Ford AND a 390 Ford. Niether is capable of blowing a hat off your head.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JMOR

02-16-2011 11:38:27
72.181.165.238



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to old, 02-15-2011 08:18:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeHis article is all talk & no meat. For me..............I'll rely on the numbers. Have totally disassembled a Ford 302 smog pump & know what is in there,,,,,,,,leaves me a skeptic for now.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JMOR

02-16-2011 11:10:30
72.181.165.238



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to GB in MT., 02-15-2011 08:18:37  

indyguy said: (quoted from post at 09:15:20 02/16/11) have you ever ran the numbers as to the CFM requirements of a N series engine and compaired that to the CFM of air supplied by a smog pump?
The smog pump comes up very short of providing enough air to raise intake manifold PSI.
You claim to be a engineer so I would have expected better from you.
Maybe it could function as a belt driven choke?!



Does anyone KNOW the displacement or CFM @ x RPM of any smog pump?
This post was edited by JMOR at 11:11:17 02/16/11.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
rustyfarmall

02-16-2011 10:56:16
209.152.78.140



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to Jerry/MT, 02-15-2011 08:18:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I think an electric heater blower fan would move more air than a smog pump, and that trick has also been tried unsuccessfully.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
rustyfarmall

02-16-2011 06:38:26
209.152.78.140



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to Mad Farmer, 02-15-2011 08:18:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Really?? A smog pump? Maybe I am thinking of something different, but the smog pumps I am familiar with do nothing more than push a bit of fresh air into the exhaust manifold to help finish the process of combustion. I can't see how one of those would ever pump more air than what a naturally aspirated 8n engine would displace.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jerry/MT

02-16-2011 10:37:25
206.183.116.129



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to rustyfarmall, 02-16-2011 06:38:26  
Put a small pulley on it and speed it up.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jerry/MT

02-16-2011 22:17:07
206.183.116.129



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to Jerry/MT, 02-16-2011 10:37:25  
I just read the article and the author talks about running them at 8000 rpm and needing to use multiple units. He claims to have rigged one up on a go kart engine.

His idea is a cheap way to get some boost on some relatively small engines but thinks that with multiple units he can boost bigger displacment engines.

Again,for something like a N series tractor I think, this is a solution looking for problem.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JMOR

02-15-2011 17:49:17
72.181.165.238



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to Jimmyjack, 02-15-2011 08:18:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeMaybe it will work out for him. I do see your point.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JMOR

02-15-2011 15:24:46
72.181.165.238



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to HCooke, 02-15-2011 08:18:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeWhen the arrangement is "suck thru the carb, into the blower, then blower into engine, the carb can be made to work, BUT blower pumping into carb, then carb to engine will TOTALLY upset the fuel metering/bowl pressure system. Where this has been done with Paxton blowers, Studebaker, Thunderbird, etc., the procedure is to put the carb inside a box & pressurize the box, thus keeping a balance in the carb throat/nozzle & bowl pressures.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jerry/MT

02-15-2011 17:37:06
206.183.116.129



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to JMOR, 02-15-2011 15:24:46  
Respectfully, I"m not so sure about that JMOR. The M-S carb is a pressure balanced design. That means that the carb inlet is connected to the fuel bowl via some large vents. This was done to make the carb metering insensitive to air cleaner restriction. The carb meters on delta p not the abolute level of pressure. The absolute pressure has some other effects (Reynolds Number effects)however.

You would, however, need to rejet the carb becaused of the increased airflow with a blower no matter where you put it relative to the carb. Rejetting will be the tricky part of this type of modification. I think the where you put the blower relative to the carb will be determined by the ability to keep it sealed if you place it behind the blower. It"s really not mechanically designed to be pressurized.

Then you have to deal with some cooling concerns also because the peak as tempertures are going to be a bit higher depending on how much boost you apply. Then there are the increased loads on the mechanical components......

Anyway, it"s an interesting problem.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dell (WA)

02-15-2011 12:36:21
207.200.112.70



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to Duggan, 02-15-2011 08:18:37  
Duggan........yep, I would. ........Dell who advocates using the smog-pump from a 454 Chevy-V8 as a belt driven supercharger using a carb from the NAA so the mouth faces the pump



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
indyguy

02-16-2011 05:15:20
63.238.232.226



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to Dell (WA), 02-15-2011 12:36:21  
have you ever ran the numbers as to the CFM requirements of a N series engine and compaired that to the CFM of air supplied by a smog pump?

The smog pump comes up very short of providing enough air to raise intake manifold PSI.

You claim to be a engineer so I would have expected better from you.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dell (WA)

02-16-2011 11:17:39
207.200.112.35



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to indyguy, 02-16-2011 05:15:20  
indyguy.......don't haffta look up no numbers. You doubt? Look-up "dirt cheap suppercharger" by Steven Richman. Google is yer friend. I can't be engineer fer everybody. .......respectfully, Dell



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
indyguy

02-16-2011 15:07:43
63.238.232.227



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to Dell (WA), 02-16-2011 11:17:39  
well then I do it for you.... even the largest smog pump is rated at less then 50 CFM.

Your N engine uses over 100CFM of air. Explain to me how you achive a increase in manifold PSI.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jerry/MT

02-16-2011 15:44:50
206.183.116.129



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to indyguy, 02-16-2011 15:07:43  
The cfm rating you refer to is for one corrected speed and a given effective discharge area on the smog pump. The pump will suppy more or less flow dependent on the corrected speed and discharge effective area. If the 50 cfs you refer to is for a relatively small discharge area and a low corrected speed, then more flow is avaiable with a more open area and a higher corrected speed.

You really have to see the pressure-flow map ( pressure ratio versus corrected flow for various corrected rpms) to see if, with a less restricted compressor exhaust and a higher speed, you can meet the engine flow requiements. I wouldn"t be so quick to dismiss this idea without more data.

in my opinion, it"s an interesting academic problem and nothing more. To me, it looks like a solution in search of a problem however.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
indyguy

02-16-2011 16:05:11
63.238.232.227



Report to Moderator
 Re: supercharging an 8N? in reply to Jerry/MT, 02-16-2011 15:44:50  
you dont work on many turboed engines I see



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:

TRACTOR   PARTS TRACTOR   MANUALS
Same-Day Shipping! Most of our stocked parts ship the same day you order (M-F).  Expedited shipping available, just call!  Most prices for parts and manuals are below our competitors.  Compare our super low shipping rates!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor.  We are a Company you can trust and have generous return policies!   Shop Online Today or call our friendly sales staff toll free (800) 853-2651. [ More Info ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2014 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters