2N Clutch plate question?

[b:fcfc8dbd6d][i:fcfc8dbd6d]Don't usually do this, BUT, can't find the answer to this one.
Easy for you maybe.....hard for me to understand.
SOoooo, here I am waiting for the UPS guy, AGAIN!!!

Question for you.......What would make a clutch plate warp/cup....Could the fingers on the pressure plate be set too far, and put pressure on the center of the disk??????? Don't see that doing it!!??

Was gonna use the old pressure plate and clutch disk, but I found out my old disk is cupped?????
Ordered a clutch kit, and will install it to replace the old stuff. Should be here Thurs. or Friday. Don't want to take a chance on something that hard to get at!!!!!!

Gary :? (the D..A..)[/i:fcfc8dbd6d][/b:fcfc8dbd6d]

Maybe got hot in the past? You didn't try to put it in backwards?

(quoted from post at 19:44:25 01/24/11) Maybe got hot in the past? You didn't try to put it in backwards?

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b:e8b50625ec][i:e8b50625ec]
teddy;
Naw...weren't in basackwards. this one came out of the old block/tranny.
I thought about heat also??????? But dunno!!!???

Gary :? [/i:e8b50625ec][/b:e8b50625ec]

What would make a clutch plate warp/cup

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My WAG would be moisture. :?

[b:16d54746b6][i:16d54746b6]
jon;
Just tryin' to figure this out, so I can fix everything before installing the NEW clutch and pressure plate.

Driving me crazy. I have put a level/
square. on the flywheel and old pressure plate.......NO warp or damage found there???

Gary :roll: [/i:16d54746b6][/b:16d54746b6]

Gary,Remember to replace that throw out bearing and front transmission seal also.

[b:61763b66fa][i:61763b66fa]
Gottcha Den. Thanks

GB
[/i:61763b66fa][/b:61763b66fa]

Only one I ever saw that was cupped was caused by a guy trying to put the clutch in with out an aliment tool and then forcing the engine onto the tranny but on that one the clutch would not release when you pushed the clutch down. It was in the correct way but they forced it and really messed it up

[b:9c3ee863e1][i:9c3ee863e1]
Old;
If that were the case with this plate, I would expect to see damage elsewhere, But NADA NO where else. just the cup in the plate.
Makes me think it may have been a bad plate spring job when built at the factory!!!!!????
Anything is possible after seeing the overhaul that was done to Hermie by the first YAHOOs'!!!! :lol:

Gary :roll: [/i:9c3ee863e1][/b:9c3ee863e1]

Gary,Does the clutch plate steel look discolored like it has gotten hot?

[b:5dc1cb914f][i:5dc1cb914f]
Hard to see any, BUT does have some tough grease build-up on the springs.....some rust also!!!
Other than that....no damage to the plate fiber. Actually looked good, until I started to install it and saw the cupping.
Some wear toward the center of the plate, and hardly any on the outside edges.[/i:5dc1cb914f][/b:5dc1cb914f]

Are the springs on the pressure plate adjustable to get a specified level of spring height from the flywheel? I know the Ferguson"s are and the back end of a 9N/2N is basically the same as a Ferguson. There"s special tool that you can make to set the spring height. If yours wasn"t set correctly that could be the cause of the problem.

[b:fe239b7d2a][i:fe239b7d2a]
Jerry;
I don't think they are adjustable....I'll have to check it in the morning.
I'm going to install the new input shaft seal tomorrow, so I'll check on the springs then.
What the "H"....just a slight set back...AGAIN!!! :lol:

Gary [/i:fe239b7d2a][/b:fe239b7d2a]

Gary,

Like one of the earlier posters, I'd have a strong belief that some yahoo P.O. bolted the engine to the bell housing without making sure the clutch splines were aligned (and bent the he11 out of it). To make that alignment easy when I am bolting a N tractor back together, I put the tranny shift in N and engage the PTO lever. Then I use a channel lock on the PTO stub shaft, wiggeling it back and forth until I can feel the engagement of the front tranny shaft with the clutch disc. And then it bolts up so nice and easy.

The spring leaves in the clutch disc give it the ability to engage smoothly without a harsh jerk. This clutch plate design was created by some French guy. The designs prior to that were solid plate that had no cushion upon engagement. And yes the coil springs (6?) help with that cushioning also. But if you look carefully at the perimeter of the disc plate, you will see the slight curve to each spring leaf that goes to the center spline hub. We have a guy in the area who goes by the business name of "Clutch Doctor" and has shown me these details I never had picked up on before. He has made some custom clutch plates for some of my machines (when the factory price was way too high). He also has the press and jigs to correctly set the adjustment bolts on the pressure plate fingers. When he resurfaces a flywheel, he stamps it with the amount he has machined off (like maybe .050) and then sets the pressure plate fingers to accomodate that greater distance to the flywheel surface. It's a whole 'nuther craft!

Stay good!

Paul in MN

On the one I had that way the only bad part was the clutch disk every thing else was just fine. All it takes is having it out just a tad bit the force it till it pops in to place and you bend the disk but you do not hurt any thing else

When, we we will just hope it is the last setback. I got a lot done today!! Got the soft plugs in and leak checked. Only two trips to NAPA. Got the wrong size first trip. Hope to get sleeves and pistons any day, then I can really get to work. Bob

[b:9b94d13f72][i:9b94d13f72]
Paul;
You and OLD, may have just explained this thing to me...if that's the case!!! Like I said before nothing surprises me after the look of the last overhaul this "N" went through.
Just could not see how, that much pressure could be applied to the clutch plate, and still not done any damage elsewhere on the pressure plate.

The guy that did the overhaul, MUST have been a dodo brain.!!!!
Thought I was gonna get by clean with the clutch job.....NOT!!!
Learnin' a bunch don't hurt tho!!!! :lol:
I'm just really surprised that Hermie the 2N, hung in there as long as he did.!!! AND, to think that the clutch was still working that good. :shock:

Thanks guys!!!

Gary
[/i:9b94d13f72][/b:9b94d13f72]

Gary think of it this way. If you have a flywheel laying down and then a clutch disk sitting on it then the pressure plate bolted down to it. Then with that sitting flat on he floor not bolted to a crank shaft you put a pipe that fit between the fingers of the pressure plate. Now you take that pipe and hit it with the biggest hammer you have. Well if you do that you will bend the disk but not hurt any thing else. Same thing happens if the splines in the input shaft do not line up and they start tightening up bolts something has to give but may not falls into place so they back the bolts back out and turn the shaft tad bit and it then falls in place. But the damage is done to the disk but nothing else. Seen more then one tranny where they tried to use the bolt to force the shaft into the disk. Even seen where the center where broken out of the disk

Gary this is one that if I could figure out where I had your phone number I'd call you and explain it better. seems I can explain things better person to person better then I can with my fingers and lack of being able to spell well LOL. Shoot if it wasn't for spell checker I'd do a lot worse

[b:10d79e6a5e]What would make a clutch plate warp/cup?[/b:10d79e6a5e]

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Gary, we talkin the friction material or the frame that it is riveted to or both?

Photo would be great iffn you would be so kind? Inquiring minds want to know...

(quoted from post at 05:26:18 01/25/11)

[b:612ca185b3]What would make a clutch plate warp/cup?[/b:612ca185b3]

Click to expand...

Gary, we talkin the friction material or the frame that it is riveted to or both?

Photo would be great iffn you would be so kind? Inquiring minds want to know...

Click to expand...

b:612ca185b3][i:612ca185b3]
D..B..;
Gotta be BOTH!.. When I lay a square on the plate, it is cupped to the outside edges. On the center is where most of the wear on the friction plate is visible, then as you go to the outside, there is very little contact showing. It seems to me that only about 1/3 of the friction plate was making contact.
I'll try to get a pic. of both sides of the plate today, but don't know when that will be.
It's gonna be, ME and the walk-behind snow blower this morning I guess!!! :evil: We got another "Global Warming" 4" of the white crap, this morning. Gotta do the walkways and my part of the street, before I can go to the shop.
Just one thing, then another.
No big deal, ...my New clutch, and pressure plate will prob. NOT get here until, Thursday or Friday, anyway!!!!
I wish Hermie had waited to puke his guts, until better weather!! I would already be done with this overhaul, if he had!!!! :roll:

Gary [/i:612ca185b3][/b:612ca185b3]

Are you sure that this is the correct clutch plate and it was installed correctly? Guess you"ll know that when the new clutch arrives?