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tires-tube or tubeless and jb weld

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cjm

03-01-2006 12:48:40

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just replaced my front tires on the old 8n. the ones i took off were auto tires with tubes. the ones i put back on were regular tractor tires (4.00-15's) from tsc. i did not use a tube with the new tires. after mounting the tires on the rims, i noticed on the side of the tires it said "tube-type tire." i assume this means they need tubes. i aired them up anyways and they seem to be holding air just fine without tubes. i did 2 hours worth of mowing and still no problems. what's the differents between tube and tubeless tirs? (other than the tube). as long as they hold air, what is it going to hurt to run a tubed tire without a tube?
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also while changing out the tires, i discovered a rust hole in one of the rims about the size of my my thumb. i used jb weld and a small cooper patch to seal the hole and it seems to be holding. don't know how long it will hold up but it looks strong now. has anyone else ever used jb weld to patch a rim? -
thanks
cjm

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souNdguy

03-02-2006 06:53:16

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Re: tires-tube or tubeless and jb weld in reply to cjm, 03-01-2006 12:48:40

Thumb sized hole is pretty big. if i did jbweld and patch it.. I'd use a patch that was way bigger than the hole.. and then I would deffintatly use a tube.. and probably boot that area with an old section of tube.

better yet.. weld or braze up the hole.. then boot, tube, and go.

With a tube you can load your front tires for a little more weight and not worry about springing pinhole leaks from CACL eating the rims from the inside out..

Soundguy

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Steve IA

03-02-2006 03:07:49

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Re: tires-tube or tubeless and jb weld in reply to cjm, 03-01-2006 12:48:40

Tubeless tires are constructed with a thin, air impervious layer of butyl rubber (innerliner) to keep the air from slowly leaking out (migrating) through the rubber of the tire. Tube-type tires don't have this innerliner (cheaper to make) and will eventually lose air. Theoretically, air migration through the tire is a bigger problem than just flat tires. Oxygen may react with the internal rubber compounds (plys, etc) which are not protected from oxygen as the external tire compounds (tread and SW) are. Maybe not much, but it will decrease the life of the tire. For tires that may be on a tractor for 50 years, it could be a factor. You should have a tube with a tube type tire.

Steve Firestone Ag Tire-process engineer (retired)

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Hobo,NC

03-01-2006 14:51:10

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Re: tires-tube or tubeless and jb weld in reply to cjm, 03-01-2006 12:48:40

I see ya have 15" i have 2 new 16" rims I would sell at a deal

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Stan(PA)

03-01-2006 13:40:58

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Re: tires-tube or tubeless and jb weld in reply to cjm, 03-01-2006 12:48:40

I"m a little confused, (as usual). You took off tires that had tubes, and put tube type tires on with NO tubes. Did you install a tubeless valve stem in the wheel? Was the rust hole in this area? Wouldn"t it have been easier to install the tube, rather than trying to convert a tube type rim and tire to tubeless? Not trying to be a wiseguy, just curious as to why you went to the trouble to try it tubeless.

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cjm

03-01-2006 15:04:20

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Re: tires-tube or tubeless and jb weld in reply to Stan(PA), 03-01-2006 13:40:58

to confuse you even more...the tires i took off were tubeless auto tires that had tubes. the reason i went through the trouble of patching the rim was because i run this tractor in catus and mesquite country and was thinking a tubed tire, when punctured, would leak down faster than a tubeless tire. a tubeless tire will leak, but as most of us have experienced in auto tires, as long a you leave the nail (or what ever punctured it) in the tire, it will leak down very slowly. and as far a cost, the jb weld was $4.00 and new tubes would have ran about $20.00. if things don't work out, i guest i'll just go down and have the tires foam filled for about $30.00 each.

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GA JACK

03-01-2006 13:29:46

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Re: tires-tube or tubeless and jb weld in reply to cjm, 03-01-2006 12:48:40

PUT THE TUBES IN BEFORE YOU MAKE A HARD TURN AND ROLL THE TIRE OFF THE RIM, THE FRONT END DIGS INTO THE DIRT THROWS YOU OFF OR TURNS THE TRACTOR OVER.

SORRY TO BE SO BLUNT. jackie

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GAJIM

03-01-2006 14:37:52

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Question for GAJACK in reply to GA JACK, 03-01-2006 13:29:46

GA JACK: Where are you located? I'm in Monroe County. GA Jim

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Ga Jack

03-01-2006 15:10:24

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Re: Question for GAJACK in reply to GAJIM, 03-01-2006 14:37:52

cobb county ga / six flags area

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TheOldHokie

03-01-2006 13:07:27

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Re: tires-tube or tubeless and jb weld in reply to cjm, 03-01-2006 12:48:40

"what's the differents between tube and tubeless tirs? (other than the tube). as long as they hold air, what is it going to hurt to run a tubed tire without a tube?"

Good question - I don't think I know. However there is a major difference between a tubeless rim and one designed for use with a tube. The tubeless rim has a raised "bump" on the inner bead area that retains the tire under side loads. Mounting "tubeless" tires on that type rim doesn't work well. The tire's leak and break loose easily. So even if the tire is a "tubeless" type, if you put it on a tube-type rim you still need a tube.

TOH

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old

03-01-2006 13:07:03

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Re: tires-tube or tubeless and jb weld in reply to cjm, 03-01-2006 12:48:40

Those tires will never hold air or even hold up very well with out tubes in them. They may work for awhile but will never do as well as they would with tubes in them. Also the rims are not made to be used that way either. It might even be unsafe.

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Dan

03-01-2006 12:55:15

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Re: tires-tube or tubeless and jb weld in reply to cjm, 03-01-2006 12:48:40

I never used JB Weld to patch a rim (although I have welded them back up with a washer around the stem holes), but I use JB Weld for a ton of things. I think that stuff is about as usefull a duct tape - if not more. I can see no reason why your repair could not last for years.

Good luck,
Dan

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DadNToms8N

03-01-2006 14:32:19

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Re: tires-tube or tubeless and jb weld in reply to Dan, 03-01-2006 12:55:15

Dan,

I have a rim that is rusted out where the valve stem hole is, so this post is very timely for me as I'm deciding weather to try having it welded (I can't do this myself) or try JB Weld. I haven't started grinding rust off yet, so I'm concerned I will have a much larger hole before it's over with. How did yours go? Any pictures?

Thanks!

Chris

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Dan

03-02-2006 04:50:42

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Re: tires-tube or tubeless and jb weld in reply to DadNToms8N, 03-01-2006 14:32:19

Chris - actually there are indeed pics of this proceedure. Click on the link below to my NAA Project Rustbucket website. There are a few pics of the "Before" and welding pics in the "Restoration" link, and more close up "after" pics of the inside and outside in the "Misc" link on that website.

Basically, we found a large thick washer that had the same ID hole as the original tube stem hole and positioned it where we wanted on the rim then tack welded it to hold it there. We then heated the washer up to red hot with a torch and using the small ball end on a ball peen hammer I pounded the washer to conform to the inside curves of the rim. After this was done, we welded the washer securely in place with a MIG welder and filled the rust out area on the outside with weld as well to build up the area so it "looked" nicer. After that, I used a small angle grinder to grind down the inside welds to smooth and the outside welds to flush with the rest of the rim.

It really turned out great and saved the rim. Check out the pics for yourself.

Good luck,
Dan

Project Rustbucket's Website

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DadNToms8N

03-02-2006 10:27:51

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Re: tires-tube or tubeless and jb weld in reply to Dan, 03-02-2006 04:50:42

Dan,

Thanks for the follow up and direction on where the pictures are. My rim looks identical to what yours did as far as the hole. I'll let you know how I make out.

Chris

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Dave Sherburne NY

03-01-2006 14:59:01

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Re: tires-tube or tubeless and jb weld in reply to DadNToms8N, 03-01-2006 14:32:19

Like cjm said, just patch over the old hole and
drill a new one

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cjm

03-01-2006 14:45:29

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Re: tires-tube or tubeless and jb weld in reply to DadNToms8N, 03-01-2006 14:32:19

mind was rusted out at the valve stem. i patched over the rust hole and valve stem hole and redrilled a hole on the oppose side of the rim. i think its going to hold!

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