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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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Valve guide seals

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Ronin

06-03-2004 09:16:58




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Thanks for the responses to my earlier post.
I damaged a couple of the seals attempting to put the guides in the block. I picked up four more at the New Holland dealer and they were different from the one that came with the rebuild gasket set. The NH seals went right in, no problem. I understand from this forum and the dealer that the seals are only needed on the intake valves. Why is this? And, at 40 cents each, what would it hurt to have seals on all guides?
Also, what assembly lube and gasket sealer is recommended for an 8N rebuild?

Ronin

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Dell (WA)

06-03-2004 10:45:31




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 Re: Valve guide seals in reply to Ronin, 06-03-2004 09:16:58  
Ronin..... ...unlike my estemed contributor "Gaspump", I have a slightly different take on yer flathead valve stem seals question.

Remember early engines didn't have seals because available seal material wouldn't handle the temperatures but that the modern seal is retro-fittable all N-Engines.

1st) my N-Ford Master Parts Catalog (MPC) lists p/n 8BA-6571, seal, intake valve (4)

2nd) only intake valve stem seals are needed to prevent "vacuum leaks" into the engine upsetting smooth running and also sucking valvestem oil so you don't fogg all the 'skeeter's.

3rd) the HOT EXHAUST stem will cook yer plastic/rubber seal making it hard and non-sealing, leave alone the exhaust pressure is blowing any valvestem oil OUT.

4th) the reason your overhaul kit comes with 8 valve stems is because it's eazier for the kit mfr to include 4 un-necessary valvestem seals than to answer complaints about NOT HAVING a seal for every valvestem.

But you can use exhaust seals iff'n it makes you feel better.

Remember, OverHead Valve (OHV) engines like the "RedTiger" intake and exhaust stems are bathed in oil and will have mandatory coil spring re-enforced valvestem seals.

I've used "assembly lube" from parts store. I've used "lubraplate for brakes". I've used chassis greese 'cuz it don't drain outta the bearing gaps like engine oil. I don't use engine oil.

I don't use any gasket sealer except chassis greese, which I use to keep the gasket inplace while I get the bolts installed.

I don't use headgasket paint to seal the headgasket 'cuz it makes the head so hard to remove and they didn't use paint at the factory eather. I've NEVER had a "dry" headgasket leak..... ...respectfully, Dell

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Gaspump

06-03-2004 13:45:02




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 Re: Re: Valve guide seals in reply to Dell (WA), 06-03-2004 10:45:31  
How's the weather on the other Coast? Our over a month long drought was broken last evening with 1-3/4" of rain, raining out now so I shut down work on the '52 and am chilling out to celebrate the onset of the summer rainy season!

Not bad reply, but just a little flawed.

1) That book was printed anywhere between 1953-64, is indicative of that time and re-printed many times since without revision.
2)I may ask which is prevailing force here? Intake vacuum or exhaust gas pressure. If crank case gasses can be pulled in can't exhaust gasses be pushed into the crank case? I say one is as bad as the other, maybe leaning a little to saying heavily contaminated exhaust gasses are the worse, they just remain and can't get burned as in the reverse situation.
3)Simply not correct, never seen a burned one yet! Water jacket is around the guides too, how can the block temp be that radically different from intake to exhaust guides? Check it out!
4)Easier to count to eight than four? Strange rationality, and why toss in 4 for free if not intended for use.

Also, I previously did not mention that I have worked on a few early engines with split guides and mushroom valves. Interestingly, the valve guide seals are a real help here too. These guides must be kept in original pairs and guess what works just perfect to hold the pairs and valves together so as not to get mis-matched? You guessed it, the valve guide seal! The seal is also is a great helper for easier installation into the block.

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Gaspump

06-03-2004 09:49:39




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 Re: Valve guide seals in reply to Ronin, 06-03-2004 09:16:58  
That topic flies around this board all the time! No there is not a problem putting seals on all guides, they were that way from the get go. The guides are in the block so they are block temp and won't burn, (burning is a common misconception) I have taken engines down with seals on and off the exhaust guides and see no unusual damage to the seals when installed on exhaust guides. Consider, which would you consider the worst, crankcase fumes seeping by the guides to the intake or exhaust gas seeping to the crankcase? Actually the amount of either occuring to a damaging point is unlikely. All gasket sets come with 8 so why not install 8? Cheap protection and saying they will burn off the exhaust guides is another old wifes tale often perpetuated on this board! Now if the engines old guides are badly worn you could get enough seepage to cook the seals but even if that occured you likely are replacing the valves and guides (or should have)anyway! Go with the seals on all.

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