New 2n Sleeves smaller?

I'm working on a 46 2n for a customer, doing a complete overhaul. Got the old sleeves out and measured the wall thickness (.090) and ordered. The first 4 pics are the old sleeve dims. It has a wall thickness of .090, and 3.2 I.D. and a 3.378 O.D. The new sleeve is 3.195 ish to the inside, and 3.365 O.D. They have a wall thickness of .085. The new sleeves just fall right in. Not sure the deal here. Anyone run into this before? If they had the actual .090 thickness, it would fit and be .004+or- shy and I could use a sleeve retainer compound and not be worried. But these will fall in and move side to side a bit before the rim comes down.

By the SL-312F it looks like a TRW repair sleeve for 239 Ford V8 car-truck.
Cut to length it says in TRW book. I would not want the new sleeves wobbling around.

I should have mentioned 3/32 wall thickness or .09375 th.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184186119611
Here is ad for one, does not have flange at the top.

Right, I may have to get the .005 oversize sleeves and deal with the extra .006 with sleeve retainer compound.

Does your customers block have a counter bore for the wider 3/32 old sleeves? Were the sleeves in tight? Just wondering how durable a flangless sleeve is in a N engine. Thank you

John

(quoted from post at 21:08:50 04/01/20) I'm working on a 46 2n for a customer, doing a complete overhaul. Got the old sleeves out and measured the wall thickness (.090) and ordered. The first 4 pics are the old sleeve dims. It has a wall thickness of .090, and 3.2 I.D. and a 3.378 O.D. The new sleeve is 3.195 ish to the inside, and 3.365 O.D. They have a wall thickness of .085. The new sleeves just fall right in. Not sure the deal here. Anyone run into this before? If they had the actual .090 thickness, it would fit and be .004+or- shy and I could use a sleeve retainer compound and not be worried. But these will fall in and move side to side a bit before the rim comes down.

Click to expand...

Custom machine work begets custom machine work. That block has been bored oversize and is going to need custom sleeves. Tell your customer the bad news and start calling machine shops. Probably cheaper to get a replacement block.

TOH

Your mission is to repair it correctly don't fall off the wagon it will eat you alive BTDT...

Looks like you need to have a communion with the customer inform him to bring his wallet : )

I have never done this I have torn into them that were sleeveless with oversize pistons I have read they used Mercury pistons .080 over...

(quoted from post at 21:08:50 04/01/20) I'm working on a 46 2n for a customer, doing a complete overhaul. Got the old sleeves out and measured the wall thickness (.090) and ordered. The first 4 pics are the old sleeve dims. It has a wall thickness of .090, and 3.2 I.D. and a 3.378 O.D. The new sleeve is 3.195 ish to the inside, and 3.365 O.D. They have a wall thickness of .085. The new sleeves just fall right in. Not sure the deal here. Anyone run into this before? If they had the actual .090 thickness, it would fit and be .004+or- shy and I could use a sleeve retainer compound and not be worried. But these will fall in and move side to side a bit before the rim comes down.

Click to expand...

Melling CSL-105F looks like a drop in replacement. Catalog lists it as a pre-finished sleeve for FORD 120 CID tractor. Flanged sleeve, 6.5" OAL, 3.1875 bore, and 3.378 OD. Use with stock pistons and rings.

TOH

(quoted from post at 08:36:14 04/02/20)

(quoted from post at 21:08:50 04/01/20) I'm working on a 46 2n for a customer, doing a complete overhaul. Got the old sleeves out and measured the wall thickness (.090) and ordered. The first 4 pics are the old sleeve dims. It has a wall thickness of .090, and 3.2 I.D. and a 3.378 O.D. The new sleeve is 3.195 ish to the inside, and 3.365 O.D. They have a wall thickness of .085. The new sleeves just fall right in. Not sure the deal here. Anyone run into this before? If they had the actual .090 thickness, it would fit and be .004+or- shy and I could use a sleeve retainer compound and not be worried. But these will fall in and move side to side a bit before the rim comes down.

Click to expand...

Melling CSL-105F looks like a drop in replacement. Catalog lists it as a pre-finished sleeve for FORD 120 CID tractor. Flanged sleeve, 6.5" OAL, 3.1875 bore, and 3.378 OD. Use with stock pistons and rings.

TOH

Click to expand...

Looking a little closer the info in the Melling catalog is confusing - at least to me. The CSL-105F is listed in the universal sleeve section with ID of 3.158 and OD of 3.378. That same part number is listed in the Ford application section with bore of 3.188, OD of 3.378, and ID of 3.158. WTF does that mean!!!

Summit Racing lists the sleeve for $20 and says bore is 3.188, wall is .095, and OD is 3.378. Adds up nicely.

I guess you have to buy one and see whats actually in the box :evil: Worse case you have to to have it bored .030 after installation. Even so probably the least expensive route.

TOH

They were the tightest sleeves I've ever removed.

The original counter bore is still there but not used. I destroyed a sleeve puller trying to get them out. They were installed with .001 interference.

I will call summit and jegs and get some
actual dimensions and keep you informed,
all I have found were flanged type on
those. Guess I could pull the grinder
out. Haha. I always repair the right way
and this is the best hope to match what's
been in there for the last 40+ years.

The csl-105f is a flanged sleeve, the csl-105 is a straight sleeve. They come non finished so installed I.D. is 3.157 and would have to be finished out to 3.1875. These are the best option for what it is. Thanks for the info.

(quoted from post at 12:34:04 04/02/20) The csl-105f is a flanged sleeve, the csl-105 is a straight sleeve. They come non finished so installed I.D. is 3.157 and would have to be finished out to 3.1875. These are the best option for what it is. Thanks for the info.

Click to expand...

I think I finally wrapped my head around the Melling catalog system. Their progressive size chart dimply matches stock bores and strokes with rough sleeves. The "stock bore" column identifies the application that matches the universal sleeve. The sleeves and possibly the block have to be machined to achieve the stock bore size.

In the Ford finished sleeve table the stock bore column and the ID of the sleeve match - except for CSL-105F.. The CSL-105F is an unfinished sleeve but for some reason it is listed along with the finished sleeves. The ID, OD, flange height, and flange diameter are all non-standard. To use that sleeve in a stock block BOTH the sleeve and the block have to be machined. In your case the block bore has already been machined to the proper size so you wonr have that expense. But you will have to bore the sleeves to 3.188 after they are installed. Unless you are lucky and the melling sleeve matches the TRW sleeve you will need to machine the counterbore in the block to fit the sleeve. Unless you are lucky or equipped for boring engine blocks installing these sleeves is going to be a job for a machine shop.

TOH

Thank you for the info!
Wasn't sure if a no flange sleeve was an ok repair for a N engine.

John

Yep, and if I'm going to use the machine
shop I'm going to use the flanged sleeve.
No point in going with the non flange and
worry about a dropped sleeve when they
are already going to be boring. May as
well pay the extra and get the counter
done as well.

(quoted from post at 14:03:35 04/02/20) Yep, and if I'm going to use the machine
shop I'm going to use the flanged sleeve.
No point in going with the non flange and
worry about a dropped sleeve when they
are already going to be boring. May as
well pay the extra and get the counter
done as well.

Click to expand...

Flanged of course. The counter-boring should not be much additional cost. I would expect them to set up on the bare block bore, cut the counterbore, install the sleeve, cut the flange to deck height, and then finish bore the sleeve. One setup, maybe two or three tool changes. Lather, rinse, and repeat for the other three holes.

TOH