Guess I DO have wiring issues on my '52 8n 12v conversion

Got it wired up last Sunday and fired it up. Haven't replaced the carb yet, but it did start and run with the choke pulled out. I'm trying to tackle one thing at a time so it'll be easier to narrow down problems. The hours I work don't allow any time to work on it during the week, so not started since Sunday. Tried it a few minutes ago and it's DEAD! It's the same battery it had it in when I bought it when it was a 6v with a 12v Battery. Would it still start with the ignition switch in the on position if I wired it backwards? Just wondering if the switch has been on all week even though it was in the off position with the key out? Any suggestions?
Jim
 
Do you have the oem ignition switch and neutral safety switch installed?

Or some half-azzed key switch start?

1 wire or 2 wire alternator? Or a generator?

How do you know the battery is dead? Voltage check? Hydrometer check? Or it won't turn the starter over?
75 Tips
 
(quoted from post at 13:17:57 08/18/18) Got it wired up last Sunday and fired it up. Haven't replaced the carb yet, but it did start and run with the choke pulled out.
Just wondering if the switch has been on all week even though it was in the off position with the key out? Any suggestions?
Jim
Sure sounds like something caused the battery to drain since it ran when when you wired it up. Checking the wiring at the switch would be a good place to start.
 
I did it the RIGHT way Bruce! Just like you and others said to. The only part of the electrical system that is not new (and correct) is the starter and the and the starter switch. I went to NAPA and got the exact coil you said, DID NOT install the resistor and put the correct starter solenoid on it (grounding, not powered). OEM on/off ignition switch. Single wire GM alternator and all new wiring. Last weekend when I had it running, I noticed the ammeter (also new) was pegged to the - side even though the alternator showed an output of 13.8 volts on my meter. The reason i said the battery was dead is because it tried to turn over and then quit . I'll go put my meter on it now.
Jim
 

an on/off switch does not know what backwards is. the key opens and closes the circuit, regardless of which wire u connected to what.
 

wanted to click preview and clicked submit instead :oops:

if the key was out, the ignition was off, unless u got the wrong switch.
 
Good to hear you wired it correctly w/ the ignition & starter switch.

Check battery voltage. 12.65 is fully charged. The closer you get to 12.00 volts, the less charge you have.

But you aren't going to find a dead cell w/ a voltmeter; you need a hydrometer. (tip # 49)

13.8 negative on the ammeter was probably because you wired it backwards.

But a dead battery (assuming it is indeed dead) tells me you have a bad battery or alternator.

Time for more troubleshooting!
75 Tips
 
Just checked it with my volt meter. 11.99 volts. One thing I noticed, when I push the starter switch with the ignition on, I can hear a slight whirring noise. When I turn the ignition switch off, the noise is louder. Don't have a hydrometer. The voltage may not be ideal, but shouldn't it still turn it over? Funny, something as simple as this tractor can be SO not simple!
Jim
 

Car-Battery-Voltage-Chart.jpg
 
Your battery is as dead as Kelsey's nuts.

Remove a cable.

See tip # 60.

Put it on a charger.

While it's charging, go to the parts store and buy a hydrometer.


At 11.99 volts, all you are hearing is the starter motor turning w/o sufficient rpm's to engage the Bendix.
75 Tips
 
Do you have a good clean, tight connection on battery ground cable? Where does your ground cable connect---to a corroded rusty framework around the battery holder, or to a good solid ground point down on the main frame near the starter? Are your battery cables in good condition?
 
Don't know Kelsey, but I'll take your word for it. I pretty much expected to have to put a battery in it when I bought it. I don't see a 12v battery living a long prosperous life when it's primary source of rejuvenation is a 6v generator. Especially since its over 3 years old. Poor Kelsey.......
Jim

P. S. It's charging as we speak.
 
The cables are pretty decent Pos. is fairly new. Neg is short, connected to backside of the dash. Shows to be a good ground on my meter.
Jim
 
(quoted from post at 00:31:53 08/19/18) Don't forget the hydrometer check. As I said, a dead cell will not show up on a voltage check.
75 Tips

If you pop off your battery cell inspection covers , Get a voltmeter , hook the negative to the negative post . put the positive lead from the voltmeter into the cell hole , the voltage will increase by 2 volts per cell - ( 6 cells /2 ) = 12 volts / You can discover if you have a dead cell or many dead cells . I have done this many times when I do not have a hydrometer
 
Kelsey was the owner/barkeep at Archie Bunkers hangout. Id say you still have something not wired correctly. If you had a 12V battery that had a full charge and it now shows less than 12 volts -something is shorted out and/or the battery is just plain junk and won't hold a charge. If no hydrometer is around, your trusty local starter/alternator shop can bench test the battery for free usually. A good brand battery, INTERSTATE, DEKA, EXIDE will last a long time when properly maintained. Cheaper bargain-house units are prone to short lifespans. Any battery that gets constantly discharged and recharged will reduce its lifespan greatly because of that. It is highly recommended that once you get your root cause problem resolved, to invest in a battery maintainer unit float charger (not a trickle charger) like the 'Battery Tender' brand and keep it connected whenever the tractor is idle in the barn. Your assumption too is on track about having a 6V generator trying to keep a 12V battery charged -it ain't gonna happen. One more fallacy that many think is the correct way to do a 12V conversion -simply swap out the 6V battery with a 12V battery.

From Bruce(VA)?s 75 Tips:
You need a strong battery to:
1. Spin the starter
2. Engage the Bendix
3. Provide voltage to the coil.
The following is courtesy of Bruce(VA), tips on battery care and performance:
As the battery gets weaker, the first thing to fail is your spark. The more current you use to spin the starter, the less you have for the ignition. If your starter pulls that battery down much below 5.2 volts (ref: 6-volt battery), the module in the EI will not fire. It doesn't really matter much if the battery is "fully charged" until you test it correctly. What did the load and hydrometer tests show on your battery? Your trusty local starter/alternator shop can bench test it on their special machine, usually at no charge ?no pun intended. No matter what else you do, the battery must be fully charged. A float charger is helpful; not a trickle charger, but a float charger, i.e/e.g. Battery Tender ? ? is a popular brand, available at Walmart. A battery charger, even a "trickle" charger, left unattended will eventually boil out a battery. I use float chargers for two reasons: battery longevity and a sure start. Battery sulfation occurs at a specific rate at "X" temperature. Over time, sulfation reduces battery performance and eventually its effects are irreversible. Sulfation of batteries starts when specific gravity falls below 1.225 or voltage measures less than 12.4 for a 12v battery, or 6.2 for a 6 volt battery. Sulfation hardens on the battery plates reducing and eventually destroying the ability of the battery to generate current. Using a float charger significantly reduces sulfation. Your battery loses 33 percent of its power when the temperature dips below freezing, and over 50 percent of its power when the temperature falls below zero. A fully charged battery will not freeze until -76?F; however, a fully discharged battery can start to freeze at 32?F. So??keep the battery fully charged! If you have a digital volt meter, 6.03 volts on a 6 volt battery and 12.06 volts on a 12 volt battery is only a 25% charge! I use Deltran/Battery Tender ?? float chargers on all my tractors, my golf cart, and 1929 Ford Model A. Pricey, but they work and some have in-lines fuses. All are hard wired to the vehicles. (*see below)
If you need to jump it, see tip # 43. No, it doesn?t need to be 12v. Plenty of N?s start just fine on 6v in below 0?F temps. Clean grounds & battery terminals are always important. Don?t forget to loosen the starter from the block (see tip # 36) and polish the block & all starter mating surfaces w/ sandpaper to insure a good electrical ground.
If you can?t remember the last time you replaced the battery cables, it?s time to do it. Just because the terminals are clean doesn?t mean there is no corrosion under the insulation. And, this is another case where size matters (see tip # 41)
A charged battery, clean grounds & new cables aren?t going to mean much if the tractor needs a tune-up. At a minimum, every fall, remove the cap, check the points for pitting or burning, re-gap them & put a dab of lube on the cam. (BTW?..if you?ve wondered why some folks get years of use out of a set of points??.this is one of the reasons). See tips 66, 67 & 68.
Things that aren?t all that important in warm weather become serious when it gets cold?like timing. A few degrees of timing either way at 60?F or 70?F isn?t likely to result in a ?no-start? situation. Well, it can at 10?F or 20?F. Check the timing! Yes, you can set the timing on a front distributor.
Distributor gaskets are important on a sidemount & critical on a front mount, as is the gasket under the coil. Just like with the battery cables?.if you can?t remember when you replaced the gaskets, do it this year.
Push the clutch in when you start the engine (tip # 29)
Oil viscosity can make a difference. If the tractor is going to be consistently operated below 20?F, switch to SAE 10w30; at 0?F go to SAE 5w30.
Pull the air cleaner cup & check for ice.
This tip won?t make it start easier, but it will make it run better: turn the carb main jet out ? to 1 full turn for cold weather operating. Cold air is denser so you need a richer mixture.
While each N has its own starting sequence, none of them will start well by just yanking out the choke rod & holding it out for 5 or 10 seconds while the engine cranks. This is a gravity fuel system on a low compression engine; it is easily flooded by too much choke.
Try this:
Key on, gas on 2 full turns, clutch in, 3/4 throttle, press the starter button. Let it crank for at least 3 - 4 seconds before you pull the choke rod. Then, don't hold it out for more than 2 or 3 seconds.
If you find out it will not start w/o excessive choking, you have problems.
If you flood it, the plugs are fouled & it will be it next to impossible to start. Replace the plugs. You don't need to toss them; heat the tips for a few seconds w/ a propane torch to burn off the invisible spark-robbing deposits from today's additive filled gasoline........or wash them in brake cleaner.
Folks who live in places a lot colder than I do here in VA will argue about battery blankets or magnetic oil pan heaters as compared to lower radiator hose heaters or dipstick heaters. While the consensus leans toward lower radiator hose heaters, I can?t offer a personal observation; the only thing I?ve ever used to heat an engine was a 100w light bulb laid against the intake manifold. Freeze plug heaters are difficult to find for N?s because of the limited space in the water jacket. Magnetic oil pan heaters on the intake manifold will help as well. And after you get it started, it will not run as well as it should in cold weather if the engine never gets to it's proper operating temperature. Use a thermostat! See tip # 25.
While water in gas today is unusual because of all the ethanol, it?s not unheard of. The problem stems from what?s called ?phase separation? in the gasoline. The alcohol binds to the water & it settles in the bottom of your tank. The way to mitigate that is to keep the tank FULL and use fuel stabilizer. Less air means less moisture in the tank for the alcohol to absorb. If you?re lucky enough to live in a state where you can buy ethanol free gas (and it does not require a bank loan to do it) then add alcohol to the gasoline. (e.g., ?HEET?) Otherwise, the 10% ethanol in the gas is more than enough to deal w/ the water.

Tim Daley(MI)
 
Thanks for all that information Tim. I took the battery out of the tractor yesterday and put it on the charger. When finished charging it showed 12.65 volts. Let it set overnight and when I checked it this morning it had dropped to 12.51 volts not even in the tractor. An hour later it was down to 12.47. When I get my new carb on, it will never see ethanol gas. Place just up the road sells ethanol free regular and premium. Can't afford to run it in my road vehicles, but all the yard stuff gets it.

Jim
 
I carried the battery to AZ and had it tested.
He put a load on it and it tested good. I did reverse the wires on my ammeter to see if that cures it being pegged on the - side. And Bruce, nobody has a hydrometer around here so I just had them check it.

Jim
 

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