8n 6 volt system, tractor starts and runs good BUT

Hello all,
New to owning 8ns but passionate about learning about them.

I get my 1950 8n good running tractor to start most times on first attempt, while it is the first start of the day. I then work the tractor and shut it off to rest myself or I just start it, let it warm up, and shut it off util I need to get on it.

I try to start it a few minutes later, AND NOTHING, It cranks good while holding the starter press foot switch, but it just starts to run while holding the starter foot switch, then dies when i let it up. I do this several times, we hv gas, but seems like no spark. I've checked the coil, electronic ignition cap and spark plug wires. They all appear good.

I noticed that the top cover plate of the 6 volt EI has a bolt that is supposed to hold it down securely to the distributor housing. It is to short to reach the threads to engage. It doesn't seem that it would be messing with the operation of EI, As they have the side clips to hold it.

It's just very wierd to me that it runs so well after starting while doing work or warming up, and this issue is so sporadic with the way it happens. I started it earlier today, and it wouldnt start first try. Then I traced the ignition wires and all were connected an tight, except that distributor plate I mentioned earlier, so basicically i mov3d the wires and parts.

Let it sit a few minutes and it started right up, but with BLACKblue SMOKE and then very clear exhaust,I let it run about 5 min, then it started 5 times after shutting it off after warming, in consecutive on/off rotations. Clear exhaust. Then wouldn't start,but good crank

What do you think

Welcome aboard. As a newbie the first step is to invest in copies of the essential owner/service manuals -see picture below. I can't help you with your EI setup, I suggest you search the archives here for numerous posts on the topic and contact whomever made the unit if you have problems. The fact that 'bolt is too short and won't hold it down securely' is a huge clue to start with. You do realize all EI does is eliminates having to mess with points, and it isn't a fool-proof, eternal fix-all. You still need to maintain PM on everything. It is very important to also understand the electrical systems of vintage FORDs. Originally, all FORD vehicles were 6-VOLT/POSITIVE GROUND setups. You say your 8N is 6V but that means little as addition of the EI changes things. Realize that 99.98% of all non-starting/non-running issues with these N's is due to incorrect/poor wiring jobs. 'Uncle Buck' or Bubba down the road did the wiring because he is 'an old time mechanic' -also means chances are your wiring is a boogered up job. Slapping a 6V battery on the tractor does not mean the rest of the electrical system is wired correctly. Start with a good battery. A correct 6V N tractor battery is a GRP-1, AG style, not a Deep Cycle or auto style or golf cart style. It must sustain a full charge under load to supply voltage and amperes to the ignition for starting. Your trusty starter/alternator shop and some auto parts stores can bench test it for free. The 8N uses a generator and voltage regulator with the 6V/POS GRN system. Some have 'converted' to 12V/NEG GRN which uses an alternator and eliminates the genny and VR. Many have added the EI as well but, IMHO, is best suited for a 12V switch over job. Whichever setup is used, if the wiring is NOT CORRECT, you will have issues. Equally important is to know if your tractor has the front mount distributor, used up to s/n 263843, or the angle mount distributor. How did you check the coil and plug wires? How did you check for spark? Did you perform the basic fuel flow test yet? next, do not hold the starter safety interlock switch down for more than 8-10 seconds while cranking. Do not start replacing parts without first doing a thorough, root cause problem solving procedure. How do you know if a part is defective? Leave the guesswork for buying a lottery ticket. 'Tracing' the ignition wires and all were tight? What does that mean? Perform a Continuity Test with a VOM, not an idiot test light. Did you verify the firing order is correct? Don't try to 'trace' ignition nor any other wire based on what color it is now. The original FORD wiring harness was made with color-coded/cloth covered wires, but chances are that harness has long is since been replaced or the colors have faded away long ago. There are two or three places that reproduce the original harnesses, but never mind that. There are probably at least 25 places that make new/aftermarket wiring harnesses, some very cheap vinyl covered wires and colors here too mean nothing as there is no standard they go by and colors could be pink and tangerine for all that matters. Colors do not conduct electrons. CONTIUITY is the key in wiring. Having the correct wiring setup is crucial to proper operation, whether 6V, 12V, or EI. Get the REQUIRED owner manuals and a copy of BRUCE(VA)'s "75 Tips for N Owners". Gaggle search for "WIRING PICTOGRAMS BY JMOR" as well and download a copy for your files. Take the battery in to be tested, and if it won't hold a charge, buy a good new one -avoid bargain house units. They have poor life spans and cab be junk out the door. While battery is being tested, you can go thru the entire wiring system and verify it is all correct. Blowing black smoke could be due to incorrect carb settings. I'd check fuel flow first, then the electrical system. Carb may need to be rebuilt and settings tweaked, but don't do anything with it yet. get the electrical corrected, then once that is confirmed, can rebuild carb if needed. There are a few of us here who can do that job if you are not confident in doing so, me and Royse for example. My email is open.

FORD 8N ESSENTIAL OWNER/OPERATOR/PARTS/SERVICE MANUALS:

FORD 8N ORIGINAL 6V/POS GRN WIRING DIAGRAM:

Additional Reference -

FIRING ORDER IS 1,2,4,3 ON BOTH THE FRONT MOUNT AND THE ANGLE MOUNT DISTRIBUTORS:

Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)

Thank you for your in depth and very concise response.
I do have the original owners manual, and have been going through it as I can
I will mm kae it my mission to find the other manuals as well.
Yes! There are many splices and tape on harness. I will be switching to 12 volt soon. I also believe the carb is part of the culprit. And yes, I feel the improper bolt being l pose is a big factor. I was just very frustrated last night when I posted, and felt I needed some ones expert opinion on a new issue of being a newbie tractor owner.

I will do as you have stated, and let you know how it turns out. I'm in the middle of several projects right now, so it may be awhile until I get back to the tractor issue.

Thank you so much

Hi 8N, good advice from Tim, one minor thing I would add. That starter switch is actually meant to be pressed down with your thumb. That way you can hold the clutch pedal down while cranking which is easier on the starter motor as it doesn't have to turn anything else but the engine. I also want to throw in the fact that in my experience, there is nothing wrong with the 6 volt system. Before throwing a bunch of money into a 12 volt conversion, I would re-wire it with a new wiring harness first. Keep us up to date on your progress.

Yes, good advice Jim. I didn't want to be nit-picky about the safety interlock neutral starter switch, figured using a foot is okay but, like you, I too depress the clutch as it will release the pressure plate and make starting easier. I also concur about the 6V/POS GRN original FORD electrical system. As the late ol' sparkie-meister Dell use to say, "...I know how to do a 12 volt conversion a half dozen ways correctly, but have found no reason to convert any of my N's from 6 Volts...". I get accused of being a pro-6 Volt advocate and I won't deny it, but also don't have anything against a 12 Volt system either if, and when done correctly and for the right reasons. That being said, when I see an EI job done, and non-starting issues abound, I want to suggest that the system be put back to either the 6V/POS GRN setup or the 12V/NEG GRN setup and get it running like that first. Once the root cause issue is solved, then one can reinstall the EI. One fallacy is that some guys think when they have non-starting issues is to scrap the 6V and go to 12V. What they do not understand is that if the tractor won't start on 6 volts, what makes them think it will on 12 volts? Also, many think swapping out the 6V battery with a 12V battery is what constitutes a 12-Volt conversion.

Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)

the issue is not your being pro 6 volts, tim. the issue is your willingness/eagerness to make false claims about 12 volts.

Yes I do use my thumb to start, as I know all to well about the clutch being on plate can cause other issues. It's just natural as I have driven semis, and my share of standards.

I feel more secure in the 12 volt system mainly because I work alone a lot when doing my tractor operating and in remote locations. I can jump my tractor in the remote situation from my Truck
.
Than, you