Starter button

Well, just finished wiring my 8n. Checked all connections, everything nice and tight. Hooked up the freshly charged battery, no sparks, nothing exploded (so I've got that going for me). Hit the starter
button.........NOTHING! The previous owner had really trashed the wiring up to and including installing a 3 position ignition switch from an old lawnmower. I guess he did that because the starter button quit
working. Hoped he just did it because he wanted to use his old switch and save a few bucks. With that being said, everything that should have power to it does (I think). What is involved in replacing the
starter button? Really don't want to pull the top cover on the tranny (scared what I might find!). Maybe a push start button from the parts store just to make sure temporarily wired in to see if that's the
problem?
Thanks, Jim
 
You HAVE to remove the tranny cover to replace the switch. To verify if it's the switch, while sitting in the seat with the clutch depressed, connect one end of a test lead to a good chassis ground, and touch the other end to the terminal on the tranny-top starter switch. I'll BET it didn't work/crank, and, likely someone has installed the wrong starter solenoid, rather than the correct one, that is unusual in the fact that the small terminal needs to be grounded, rather than connected to power to activate the solenoid.

Once you get it to work with the test lead/jumper wire, if it still doesn't work with the tranny-top switch you know what you have to do!
 
Ok Bob, Thanks. I'll try the jumper wire and see what happens. Didn't think about it being the wrong solenoid. It is not the original for sure. Probably one he pulled off some old truck out in the pasture!
 
Tried the jumper wire straight from the negative battery terminal to the starter switch. Ignition switch both on and off and still nothing. The wire goes from the switch terminal to the small terminal on the solenoid. So this means the switch is bad?
 

The N I have in the shop now has a bad starter button someone add a dash mounted push button and wired it to a solenoid that takes voltage to internalize. I removed it and installed the correct solenoid New one mounted to starter old one in my hand. The small thermal to activate the solenoid by grounding is on the engine side of the solenoid. I will pull the shift cover next week and replace the OEM switch nuttin much to it other than between the cover and trans were the screwdriver is pointing at the white dot a spring is under that tab... Lift the cover up slow and make sure the spring stays in place. Its a detent spring you can also pull it out make sure the 3/8" steel ball stays in the shifter slot and not dropped into the trans...

OEM solenoid

21335.jpg


Wrong solenoid
21336.jpg
21337.jpg
 
Hobo, my solenoid looks just like your new one and hooked up the same way. Mine is just held in place by the strap that goes to the starter terminal. No screws in the starter like yours to mount it that way.
My tractor started just fine with the old lawnmower ignition switch, but it wouldn't cut it off. Had to kill it with the choke. I personally don't care if the tranny top switch works or not. I just need to use
my tractor. I thought about drilling a hole in the tab under the dash where the old 6v regulator was mounted and putting a push button switch there. Basically opposite side from the ignition switch. How do I
know if it takes voltage or if it grounds? Auto Zone Has one with 2 screws on the back. Why would it have 2? I bought a new ignition switch correct for the tractor in hopes the starter switch was good. Had I
known it was bad, I'd probably have gotten a universal ignition switch and just started it with that. I just need to know the best way to deal with this other than replacing the tranny top switch. Still have
several other things to do besides this. Thanks
 
" I just need to know the best way to deal with this other than replacing the tranny top switch."

The best way to do it is the right way, which is the way Hobo told you to do it.


See tip # 28.


That neutral safety switch is there for a reason.
75 Tips
 
Thanks Bruce, didn't realize it was a neutral safety switch. Explains why it's mounted where it is. On the plus side, just figured out the switch is working, which means it must be the solenoid, which is not the right one for the tractor. Probably off an old truck.
 
You live in AL.

I live in VA.

Other than being 500 miles apart, I can assure you that redneck engineering knows no boundaries. Some folks will spend 3 hours and $2 to avoid spending 10 minutes and $20 to fix it right.

And then brag about it.
75 Tips
 

Get the correct solenoid life will be good... It does not have to be mounted to the starter you can mount it in any safe place. When I picked this one up I took a quick look while looking the owner did say be careful it will run your arse over if it cranks the engine over.

Good deal your original works I will not help you bypass it and hope no one else would either... Its one thang we all agree on...
 
I understand. Until you told me, I had no idea they had a neutral safety switch. I mean you have a PTO shaft spinning on the rear all the time, so it didn't seem like safety was a big priority in '52. Guess they had to start somewhere though. HOWEVER, after a quick trip to Tractor Supply for the correct solenoid, all is right with the world. Hit the starter and she fired right up. After I got it started, I noticed the ammeter went all the way to the - side and stayed there. Alternator is putting out 13.8 volts. Did I hook up something backwards?
 

The starter button does more than complete an electrical circuit there is also a pin on the bottom that aligns with the shifter dogs inside the transmission and unless the tractor is in neutral you cannot depress the starter button far enough to complete the starter motor circuit. Fords way of keeping some folks from an early grave.
 
"Did I hook up something backwards?"

Do you have working lights? If so, turn them on with the engine off.
Does the meter show minus or plus?
If it shows plus, you have the wires reversed on the meter.
You can simply swap them if it's a terminal type.
If you have the original loop style ammeter, run the wire through it
the opposite direction from what it is currently.
 
By the way, if your starter does not have holes for mounting the
solenoid, it may be a 9N/2N starter. I used a Jubilee solenoid on
this one and mounted it under the hood. Worked just fine with the
original push button neutral safety switch since the Jube had them too.

21382.jpg


21383.jpg
 
The old solenoid was attached to the starter terminal with a very thick steel strap. A little reconfiguring and I got it very sturdy.
 
Hobo, I stand corrected. My new solenoid looks just like your new solenoid. That would be the one that actually let me start it!
 
My tractor started just fine with the old lawnmower ignition switch, but it wouldn't cut it off. Had to kill it with the choke. I personally don't care if the tranny top switch works or not. I just need to use my tractor.

Just curious , your ignition switch needs to cut power to the coil . If your charging system was back feeding power to the ignition then you may still have a problem that needs fixed . Your starting , charging , and ignition system should share a battery but be independent of each other .
 

The one in my pix had been bent like a cork screew to work on the replacement I straighten that MF'er flat and put a 90 degree bend in it like original :))))

I would get the correct strap are make one out of copper tube'N... Beat the tube flat and drill holes needed (Poor mans flat bar/strap)

I would wager I have beat a 1/2 mile of copper and electrical conduit flat to make poor mads flat bar/strap'N...
 
HiYa Jim-
OK, we know you have an 8N but, and this is important, is it an early 8N with the front mount distributor or a post s/n 8N-263844 with the angle(side) mount distributor, AND, is it 6V/POS GRN or a 12V/NEG GRN switch over job? EI is good to know as well. It is essential that the wiring is correct whether 6V or 12V. Most non-starting issues are due to poor/incorrect wiring jobs, and I?d bet you are in that group. You are also making mistake #1 -assuming a part is bad without a root cause problem solving procedure to first determine. You?ve spent a lot of time and $$$ on your 8N, don?t ruin it by letting the smoke out of a component on the first try. The original Ford electrical systems were 6-VOLT/POSITIVE GROUND, on all vehicles, not just the tractors. It sounds like you have some boogered up wiring so let?s go thru the basics. The 8N electrical system required a 3-wire generator, a voltage regulator, a ballast resistor, an ammeter, starter neutral safety switch button, a 6V battery ?positively grounded, a 6V ignition coil, a 2-wire ignition switch, and all the wiring connected correctly. Lights were options so disconnect any for now. You will verify the wiring with no power applied. A dead or near death battery isn?t going to help matters so first up is to get the battery tested and if it?s bad, replace it with the correct style. No Deep Cycle, RV, golf cart units ?GRP-1 6V, GRP 25 or 35 12V. The battery must sustain a full charge under load to be effective. A good starter/alternator shop or local auto parts store can bench test it very easily. While battery is being tested, go thru the entire wiring system via a continuity test, not an idiot test light. Test lights often require power and you do not want any power applied. The generator and VR are part of the charging system not the ignition system; however, goobered-up wiring can result in any non-starting scenario. The 8N Voltage Regulator was originally supplied by AUTO-LITE, new aftermarket VRS are now supplied by numerous manufacturers, but, they ALL have 4-WIRE terminals: ARM BAT FLD and a ground. Once ALL the wiring has been verified correct, BEFORE power applied, you will polarize the generator. The 8N Starter has a solenoid bolted to the housing. It has 3-wires connected ?see wiring diagrams below. The 9N & 2N starter did not have a solenoid and only had one wire connected to it. If you don?t have the correct components, best to get them. You need to use your essential manuals for help. The I&T F-O4 Manual, an original or a copy of the 8N Operator?s Manual, and the 39-53 MPC are especially useful. Search for a copy of ?WIRING PICTOGRAMS BY JMOR? and download a copy. Do not buy any new parts and start replacing until old ones are determined to be failures.

ORIGINAL FORD 8N ?AUTO-LITE? VOLTAGE REGULATOR:
fks1UnXh.jpg

NEWER/AFTERMARKET 8N VOLTAGE REGULATORS:
bsAAGgAh.jpg

WIRING DIAGRAMS FOR 8N w/FRONT MOUNT:
rxNF128h.jpg
CfuUUP3h.jpg

Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)
 
Tim, thanks for the reply. Mine is a '52 in the last 3000 or so 8n's ever made. My problem was the solenoid. Replaced it with the correct one and it fired right up with the starter button. Worked just fine. the only problem now is the ammeter goes to - and stays there. 12v alternator putting out 13.8 volts. Everything is new except the starter. Just converted to 12 volt.
 

if your ammeter has a pair of terminals on the back, swap the wires. if it has inductive loops, disconnect the wire running thru those loops, feed it thru in the opposite direction, and reconnect it.

yes, it really is that simple.
 
OK -do you mean the starter solenoid? That is the 3-wire round device mounted on the 8N starter barrel. The starting switch/safety interlock button is not the same thing. Starters don't care if 6V or 12V. Either one, how did you determine it was defective? Sounds like you have wiring issues as well. A 12V conversion on a side mount requires a 12V coil and resistor. AMMETER being pegged also proof wiring not correct. If it was just wired bassackwards then it would show a NEG side discharge. A pegged needle means it ain't wired right. New or old, it doesn't matter. Many 'new' aftermarket parts are junk out of the box. Where is the original starter? How did you determine it was defective? Your trusty starter/alternator/generator shop guy can test it, and if it proves defective, then can rebuild it, providing he knows about Ford electrical systems. That's the best way to go than buying anything 'new', in my opinion.

Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)
 
Don't remember who said it without going back and looking. I thought it was you. My buddy across the street came over and both of us checked to see if the starter switch was good and it showed good on the meter. (He has a '49 8n, 12v.) What I had read was if the switch was good, then it probably had the wrong starter solenoid. I think it came off an old truck or something. I went an got the correct solenoid and it fired right up. Guess the one on it when I bought it required power to operate the starter. It did have an old lawnmower ignition switch and the original starter button had the wire cut. As far as the starter itself, nothing has been done, seems to be just fine.
 
Oh, by the way, I installed the 12v no resistor required coil from NAPA that Bruce said to use. Exact part number he said to get.
 

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