52 8N Hard To Start

Hobo,NC

Well-known Member
Location
Sanford, NC
I am working on an 8N that's been in one family all it life its a nice tractor the prof meter quite at 792 hr. They let it set for years I got it back up and running in 2011. I think they use it about 10 hours a year running a bush cutter.

The problem it has is its a beach to get started (12V conversion) Starter works great spins it over FAST. Once you get it started and get over what is a skip it putt putt putts till all cylinders start to fire as long as its hot it fires right off no problem... The only way you can get it started COLD is set the throttle 3/4 hit the choke and let the choke off and keep hitting the starter till it putts a few times and catches off. Do not apply anymore choke let it hit till it will putt enoufh to start firing all cylinders.

It putt putt putts like its only hitting on a cylinder are two till all cylinders start hitting, once running runs great no smoke just a sweet running machine...

Good spark good fuel new spark plugs... Original cap and spark plug wires. Old plugs were wet and dark/black from what looked looked a rich condition... I let them, lay on a table for a day they dried up and just dry/black so I know it was wet from fuel not oil...

Carb is adjustable and a sweet carb its not the carb...

I am gonna plug a new battery in it the one that's in it I put in in 2011 I had to charge it but its spun'er over good since...

Anyone want to make a guess at what I am gonna check next..
 
HO, Knowing your abilities I will presume you have done the regular trouble
shooting stuff. I have seen similar things. Check the
rotor for slop, dose it have a rotor clip ? a scoch of play and or no rotor
clip is like 1/2 to 1 tooth off on on the dist. drive gear. Slop in any
spot of a dist will be felt on starting mode, and at operating speed seem
fine. So will leaking plug wires. First( cold motor) starting attempt shoot
starting fluid directly into the back of the carb with the air tube
disconnected if it starts or hits its fuel problem, stuck needle? or
somthing fuel wise. Now hear is one for ya, On my 52 it ran like a singer
sewin machine for years. Went out to fire it up one day no go . I spent 3
hrs did everything I knew and no go. My buddy has been a Ford cert. mech
for 40+ yrs and he came over with a grin on his face like your kidding me
these are the simplest engines ever made.3 Hrs later 1/2 a can of starting
fluid and 3 batteries(6V) we get it running. We had everything good fuel
and fuel flow , hot spark everything was good. We changed no parts. It has
never failed to start since. Here is what my Ford certified buddy said. You
can have great spark on all your plugs when there out of the cyl and
grounded but when their back in the cyl they dont fire------How or why I
dont know and how he knows this I have no idea I didnt ask and to this day
I have never asked. If anyone knows feel free to tell me. Do these folks a favor and switch it back 6 Volt points ign. I have no idea why 12 volt and or HEI was ever put on these Ns. The only good that comes out of it is to the person who sold it.
Let us know when you get it going and what ya did.
 
Sounds like it is flooded from the get go when cold. Take the air hose at the carb off before starting and see if
fuel is present in the throat of the carb. Float valve sticking. Do you shut off the fuel when it is parked?
 
HOBO
what fuel are you using
I have a 53 Ferguson TO-30
I was having starting problems with it I did full tune up
rebuilt carb , still very hard to start once I got her warmed up it ran
ok. I read about using high octane non ethanol fuel I drained tank and filled with
this type fuel , what a difference, amazing
Just a thought
 
After 66 years I would change you say the Original cap and spark plug wires rotor also. The 66 year old wires have to be total trash!
 
I think you're pulling our legs a little since you've forgotten more about engines and especially these tractors than most of us will ever know. That being said, the 601 I got three years ago that came with some mountain land ran fine. I got it started in ten minutes after it had sat for two or three years. Then, out of the blue, it quit starting and gave many of the symptoms you described. It kicked my rear end for several weeks before I saw the schematic of the distributor system: like the side mount 8N's, it has this rotor clip (or was supposed to!). Apparently when I polished the points when I first was starting it, that clip fell off (I never had seen such a clip and don't remember it even being there, so probably dislodged it and/or inadvertently dropped it). Anyway, ordered a new one, put it on, and it started first rev. I KNOW YOU KNOW ALL THAT!
 
I agree with Roger, Den and Jim N.C. said. I'm wondering what the compression numbers look like.
 
"Anyone want to make a guess at what I am gonna check next.."

Depth of their pockets? Just kidding! ;)
 



Jim L WA gets the win I should have already checked the compression its next on the list.

I should have already put a battery in it even tho it spins it over real good... Bat is 7 years old... Been busy got to get back on it today he wants it Saturday...
 

I would have bet the farm it had low compression are a cylinder are two low... 95/100 across the board :shock:

I checked the timing

Base 15deg
Total 32/35

Set it to 4 deg the total just under 20 maybe 18... It idles super low so jacked it up a little on the high side will see what it does bone cold... Hope it helps if not I may have to put a starter drive on it... While checking the timing and finding TDC using a screwdriver to turn the flywheel the flywheel ring gear is worn.


Original symptons

Cranking cold it would hit and kick the starter drive out it would do this about 3/4 times then it acted flooded.(I think it is flooding buy not starting) You would have to throttle it up no choke and keep trying to start it till it would hit on enoufh cylinders to stay running to clear all the spark plugs of fuel. Applying choke makes it worst once you get it started and cleared out runs as sweet as it gets...

If no better in the morning it gets a new starter drive...
 

No better this morn... Next step I am gonna talk the breather tube off the carb this one is wanting to be a mean SOB...
 

I think I got it fixed....

A rear lift arm pin leaks bad so I would not pull it on the concrete.
Yesterday it rained so had no choice so put it far enough under the overhang on the roof to work on it the tractor front end on concrete.. As usual I can not stay on it long so get plenty of time to think about it and rethink my battle plan.

I have not replaced anything all checks good it
was a hard start fist thing this morning got it running shut it off and went on to something else... The owner comes to pick it up I explained I have not figgered it out yet. He had not complained about it starting hard he thought it was normal for it to start hard all he wanted was it serviced, a belt, a battery and air up the tires...

While we were talking I seen a drop of fuel come from the carb there were signs of fuel on the concrete the leak is so slow it does not puddle... How could that be I turned the fuel off as always... I ask him if he turned the fuel off he said no never have. When I pulled the air tube off a little fuel ran out :idea:

The carb is coming off I took the fuel line off fuel ran out the line like it was turned on I checked it was turned off. The shut off has not been used for so long I had to use pliers and keep working it past the hard place to get the fuel shut off... I did a quick 30 min repair on the carb put it back on turned the fuel on it lit off as soon as I hit the starter button...

We will see what it does in the morning...
 

Hit starter pumped choke it hit and Kicked the starter drive out... Don't you love those original starter drives...

Hit starter again it fired up ran like a new one... No Putt Putt put till it cleared all cylinders out of raw fuel and all cylinders firing....

No more fudgen with the throttle are thinking did I flood it... I think I will pull the fuel valve off and clean it till I am satisfied it works as it should... I still have to jam it thigh to complexly shut the fuel off...
 

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