No Spark 49 8n stumped....

Well the other day my 8n with a front mount distributor decided to quick making spark. I got my voltmeter out to start diagnosing the problem and as of right now I am getting power to the coil. so I went to the store and got a new coil and new points. I replaced the coil first since its easier with no change. So my next thought was replace the points and condenser. Did that and no change and yes it they are gapped at .015. the cap was recently replaced and still looked good. I sanded the connection points in it for good measure. It was running like a champ and now nothing..... Worse part is the tractor is for sale and it decided to do this in the middle of the first potential buyer. Smack me while down. lol
 
You didn't buy enough parts. Just keep buying parts for it until you fix it or run out of money.

Seriously...??.

The one way that I found the best results with is to take a systematic, step-by-step approach to solving the problem, working from most likely to least likely. The trick to fixing these tractors (or trouble shooting any piece of equipment) is to be systematic about it. You need to isolate the problem step by step and work from most likely to least likely. Jumping ahead to 'so-and-so said it could be whatever' or just replacing parts usually just wastes your time and your money. I know it did for me.

The first thing you need to check is for battery voltage at the coil. Yes, you need a meter for that, not a light. With the key on, you should see battery voltage battery with the points open and about half that with the points closed. " I am getting power to the coil." doesn't cut it as a good analysis. What voltage did you see? If you do not see either, the problem is between the battery and the coil, e.g., the resistor, ignition switch or a bad connection.

Assuming that the bushings & advance weights are ok (*see below), & that you have correct voltage to the coil , the most common reasons for no spark or a weak spark on the front distributor are below. Check each one carefully. Even if you find a problem, check all 10:

1. The insulator under the brass concave head screw & where the copper strip attaches. (it's fiber & will wear out; poke & prod w/ your meter leads to make sure it still works) If you need to replace the insulator, use a .250 x 3/8 nylon square nylon anchor nut available at most big box home stores.

2. The pigtail at the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the concave head brass screw inside the distributor. (With the coil on, the pigtail must firmly contact the brass screw. No contact = no spark) Check for continuity between the top of the coil and the pig tail; a 6 volt coil will be around 1 ohm & a 12 volt coil should be 2 to 3 ohms.

3. The copper strip is broken or grounded to the plate. (look very carefully for cracks & breaks) .

4. The distributor is not grounded to the block because of paint or grease acting as an insulator. Or the points plate is covered in oil.

5. The tab on the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the brass button on the cap. (With the cap on, the tab must firmly contact the brass button. No contact = no spark.) Check for continuity between the top of the coil and the tab; you should see about 6k ohms.

6. A grounding issue inside the distributor: Incorrect positioning of the spring clip on the plate causing the pigtail to ground. (the open part of the clip goes between 7 & 9 o'clock on the plate. That puts the straight part of the clip opposite of the timing screw at 3 o'clock) or the condenser wire is grounding to the plate or side of the distributor.

7. Incorrect seating of the coil on the distributor due to a loose bail or no gasket.(the coil must not move at all; if it does, replace the gasket or bail. Or stick some cardboard under the bail).

8. Water/moisture inside the cap due to gasket failure or the absence of a gasket. (the cap AND coil have gaskets)

9. Dirty/corroded/burned/incorrectly gapped or misaligned points. I use only Wells, Blue Streak or Echlin brand points (* *see below). If you are using quality points and cannot get the gap to open to .015, chances are you need to replace the bushings. If the shaft has any sideways movement AT ALL, the bushings must be replaced. (*** see below) If the tractor has been sitting unused for a few months, it?s highly likely that the points are glazed. Dress them with brown paper or card stock. Do NOT use a file or sandpaper. That removes the thin metallic coating on the surface and reduces point life considerably. ( " I sanded the connection points in it for good measure". Not a good move. You just ruined a new set of points) With the points closed, you should have continuity between them; high resistance means they are glazed.

10. Burned rotor, cracked/carbon tracked cap. Brass ?dust? in the cap is a sure sign of bushing wear.

After find the problem & re-check the point gap, do a continuity check before you put the distributor back on the tractor. Before you start, make sure your meter/light works.

With the distributor still off the tractor, follow these steps:

1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded.

2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open.

3. Put the coil on the distributor, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should have continuity!

4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity!

At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil misaligned trying to put it back together, one piece at a time. The result is something gets broken or you get a 'no spark' problem.

It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. Whatever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts). Place the distributor on the front of the engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes line up. Hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush with the timing gear cover.

* Unscrew the plate hold down screw & remove the C clip to get the plate out. Remove the shaft & weights. The weights should freely move. The tracks should not be wallowed out.


** Yesterday's Tractor kit:

Premium Blue Streak points (A0NN12107ABS), rotor, condenser, and gauge Part
No: APN12000ABSR


** Distributor cam lube NAPA:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHML1

*** There are three ways to replace the bushings in a front distributor:

1. Buy new bushings (part numbers 9N12120 front & 18-12132 rear). Press out the old ones, press in the new ones and ream to fit. CAUTION: do not try this unless you have a press & know how to use it. If you break the base, a new one costs $130. If you bend the tower which holds the front bushing, a new plate will cost you $30. Resist the temptation to buy a new plate; most are pot metal and the threads will wallow out about the third time you change the points.

2. Take the new bushings and distributor to your local machine shop.

3. Send the distributor out for bushing replacement if you do not have a local machine shop
75 Tips
 
Thanks Bruce,

That's a good reminder(s) for when changing the points.

Speaking of points, I have an older (199?) new holland tune up kit, "made in taiwan". Came with autolite plugs, gaskets, rotor, condenser. The points look of decent quality, unlike the echlins I use, they even have a brass bushing on the pivot. Any thoughts on these?

I have a few NOS echlin points that are "made in usa". Am running those now.......
 
I think the New Holland points will be just fine. It's so much were they were made as it is the quality control of the company selling them. If the seller doesn't check behind the factory they will produce junk. We discussed that problem here last year w/ NAPA Echlin points. I called the buyer, gave him the results of my tests and sure enough, they had a bad lot of points.
75 Tips
 
I'm a bit confused here so bear with me, maybe I missed something. You said "...as of right now I am getting power to the coil. so I went to the store and got a new coil and new points...". Huh? if your coil showed it was OK, why did you buy a new one? I'm going to take a WAG here, because you don't say and it hasn't been asked, but I bet you have a 12V switch over job, right? Bad/poor/incorrect/cobbled up wiring is the #1 reason for non-running/non-starting issues whether 6V POS/GRN or 12V/NEG GRN. NEVER sand points or cap contacts -clean with a solvent and rag, use a non-abrasive tool like a toothbrush if you must. Ditto to what Bruce(VA) says. ECHLIN, BLUE STREAK, STANDRARD IGNITION points are best. They use a phenolic rubbing block not plastic like many cheaper brands. The country of origin is a big factor too. Avoid most if not all parts made in Cheena. They have NO QUALITY CONTROL. Prior to Cheena taking over manufacturing, parts were made in INDIA or BRAZIL but they at least had QC departments and not just cloning something. Where and who you buy parts from also matters. Avoid TSC and other bargain house suppliers. NAPA sells some Ford N parts like ECHLIN, and there is a list Bruce compiled, -just search archives. Like I said, I'll bet it is your wiring so get a copy of "WIRING PICTOGRAMS by JMOR" download it and go thru your entire system. I'd also bet your original coil is good too. We're not beating you up, just trying to help you problem solve. Manuals are equally important tools as well. Got the I&T F-04 Manual?

Tim Daley(MI)
 

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