Srock67

New User
Hi guys,
A couple weeks ago I bought my first tractor a 52 8n. It started and ran great when I bought it and the several times I took it out for a drive. However the last trip I took I was going down the road in fourth gear when it stumbled and acted like it was running out of gas. I messed with the shut off valve and was able to keep it running but just barely and gimped it home. After reading stuff on this site and others I figured it was a fuel problem. I have flushed the tank, new gas, cleaned the fuel line, cleaned screens,Replaced the shut off assembly, and taken the carburetor apart and cleaned it. I have fuel out the bottom of the carburetor drain plug when shutoff is opened.
My problem is this, it will start every time but barely idol roughly and I have zero throttle response and it will run for around a minute and then die. And it will start right back up and do the same thing over and over.
Just hoping maybe someone else has had a similar issue or could point me in the next direction any help is appreciated.
Thanks, Kenny
 
" it will run for around a minute and then die. "


It is important for you to tell us if your tractor has a 6 volt or 12 volt electrical system . The troubleshooting is different based upon the configuration of your engine.

It takes three things for an engine to run: spark at the right time, compression, & fuel/air in the right mixture. For the moment, forget about compression & concentrate on narrowing the problem down to spark or fuel.

There are three very important tools you always need to have in your N tool box: a 3 inch piece of wire w/ alligator clips on each end, a spark checker w/ an adjustable gap (* see below) and a 7/16 box end wrench. (see tip # 50 at the link below) And, you really do need a working ammeter on the tractor; it is a very important diagnostic tool. With these tools, you can quickly narrow down most N problems to spark or fuel.

As soon as it stops running, not 5 minutes later, check for spark then fuel. First, turn the key on, crank the engine & look at the ammeter. What is the needle doing? Does it show a constant discharge, no movement at all, or does it move back & forth slightly? Next, hook up your spark checker, turn the key on & crank the engine. If the spark jumps the 1/4? gap, you probably don?t have a spark problem. If it won?t jump the ?? gap, you have a spark problem. If the ammeter needle shows a constant discharge, or doesn?t move at all, that also tells you that you have a spark problem. Jump the ignition switch w/ your jumper wire & see what happens. If it runs, you found the problem. If it doesn?t have spark after you jump the ignition switch, post back for more info on further troubleshooting. (and do not forget to turn the ignition switch off; see tip # 38

Next, check for fuel. Get a can & put it under the carb. Remove the bolt in the bottom of the carb; as long as the fuel is turned on, you should see gas flowing out of the carb. It should fill a pint jar in less than 2 minutes. If it?s a dribble, or runs for 5 seconds & stops, or none at all, you have solved half the problem: it?s fuel related. If gas flows well out of the carb & only stops when you turn it off at the sediment bowl, chances are very good it?s not a fuel problem. If it does not have gas coming out of the carb at a steady stream w/ the bolt out for at least 30 seconds, you have a fuel problem. First, remove the gas cap. Your vent could be clogged & it vacuum locked. If that doesn?t work, tap the carb bowl w/ a hammer handle in case the float is sticking closed. (don?t whack it w/ the head of the hammer; you can crack the bowl). If you still don?t see gas flowing, the N has three fuel screens; one in the brass elbow, one in the top of the sediment bowl & one on the stem of the sediment bowl in the gas tank. (see tip # 45) Check the screen in the elbow (see tip # 56) & the screen in the top of the sediment bowl. (don?t worry about the one in the tank) Both probably need to be cleaned. If you have the fuel knob turned on all the way, & 1 gallon or less in the tank, it may be trying to feed off of the reserve inlet which is probably clogged. Only open it 2 full turns. Put at least 2 gallons in the tank. (and do not forget to turn the gas off; see tip # 9)

There are ways to check for spark & fuel that work & ways that don't. For example, having gas to the carb is nice, but having it past the float is what counts! That?s why removing the 7/16? bolt in the bottom of the carb is the way to check for fuel. And, same thing w/ spark at the plugs. Some folks think that checking for spark means pulling a plug wire off & looking for one. Well, it's the distance the spark jumps at the plug that gives you the info you want. It takes about 17kv to jump a 3/16" gap & 22kv to jump ?? in the open air. Remember, it?s 14psi outside of the engine & about 90psi at a 6:1 compression ratio in the cylinders & compressed air creates electrical resistance, so you really need the 17-22kv to fire the plugs when the engine is running. A store bought plug checker (in the picture) will work better than an old plug because it won?t shock the snot out of you like an old plug might!

Post back with results or more questions.



*If you don?t own a spark checker w/ an adjustable gap, buy one. In the meantime, an old spark plug w/ the gap opened to at least ?? will work. Ground it to a rust & paint free spot on the engine turn the key on & look for a spark.
75 Tips
 
Sorry I didn?t mention this is a 12 volt system.
So I double checked the fuel at the drain plug on
carb and I?ve got a steady flow.
Next I checked the spark. Didn?t have a spark tester
here so used a plug. Found what appears to be
weak spark even with a small gap and worse when
opened it up
Today I had picked up a tune up kit in town,
distributor cap and internals and spark plugs. After I
found the weak spark I installed the kit. The tractor
fired up immediately and idled perfectly and the
throttle worked great again. Well I let it idle for 5
minutes and it went right back to running rough
again. I found one wire with slight damage but
turned the lights off and didn?t see any spark
jumping from it. I?m thinking it?s still electrical so I?ll
poke at it some more tomorrow. Possibly that
capacitor between alternator and distributor?
 
"Possibly that capacitor between alternator and distributor?"

Could you post a picture of that?
 
Do a start over with essential manuals handy. Fuel, Spark, Compression -in that order. For any problem, a methodical root cause problem solving procedure is a must, not just "...figuring..." and/or guessing at the problem and certainly before just replacing parts. "..cleaned screens, AND replaced Sediment Bulb..."? A new unit or just removed? You don't say, and this is very important data we need to help you with. You say it is a '52 8N. Well, until we know for sure, does it have the front mount distributor or the angle (side) mount distributor? Next, is it 6V/POS GRN or 12V/NEG GRN? Either way, if it isn't wired correctly, even more problems will ensue.

FORD N-SERIES TRACTOR ESSENTIAL 8N OWNER/OPERATOR MANUALS:
qI9P22kh.jpg

FORD N-SERIES TRACTOR CARBURETOR:
Ox245YVh.jpg

FORD N-SERIES TRACTOR FUEL SEDIMENT BULB ASSEMBLY:
5kg5WXLh.jpg

Tim Daley(MI)
 
"Possibly that capacitor between alternator and distributor? "

Yes, you could have a defective coil.....or a defective ignition switch, faulty wires, bad grounds.....etc, etc.

Don?t guess at the cause of the problem; guessing can get expensive. And leave you breathless chasing every guess.......it could be this, it could be that......just troubleshoot the problem and leave the guess work for buying Lottery tickets.

The one way that I found the best results with is to take a systematic, step-by-step approach to solving the problem, working from most likely to least likely. The trick to fixing these tractors (or trouble shooting any piece of equipment) is to be systematic about it. You need to isolate the problem step by step and work from most likely to least likely. Jumping ahead to 'so-and-so said it could be whatever' or just replacing parts usually just wastes your time and your money. I know it did for me. Remember, it takes three things for an engine to run: spark at the right time, compression, & fuel in the right mixture. For the moment, forget about compression & concentrate on narrowing the problem to fuel or spark. If you don?t do that, you are going to end up chasing your tail around that tractor & spending a boatload of money to fix what could easily be a loose wire or faulty ignition switch.

As soon as the tractor stops running, not 5 minutes later, check for spark and fuel. (see tip # 13)

You need to answer 2 questions before you do anything else:

With the bolt in the carb bowl removed and the gas on, will the fuel flow fill a pint jar in less than 2 minutes?

Next, get out your adjustable gap spark checker * , open the gap to 1/4", hook it up, turn the key on and crank the engine. Does the spark jump 1/4"? Post back with the answers.

And do not buy a new part for the tractor until you can answer this question: how do I know the part on the tractor is defective?


Just because you bought new parts and installed them does not mean that you needed them in the first place, that they are quality parts or that you installed them correctly. Buy the parts at TSC? If so, you got junk. What gap did you set the points and plugs?

" I found one wire with slight damage but turned the lights off and didn?t see any spark jumping from it."


A plug wire?

* Don't own an adjustable gap spark checker? Buy one! Not a test light! Until then, take an old plug, open the gap 1/4" ground it to the head & look for spark. It?s not the color of the spark that counts; it?s the distance it jumps.




https://www.amazon.com/AMPRO-T71240-Energy-Ignition-Tester/dp/B00A8FO87S/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1513273147&sr=8-4-fkmr1&keywords=ampro+spark+checker
75 Tips
 
There is a phenonena that when the bowl vent gets plugged or the venturi is somehow damaged there will be a vacuum build up in the bowl of the
carburetor after running a short time and this condition will prevent the venturi from being able to lift the gasoline out of the bowl. After the
engine stops for a couple of mintutes the vacuum will bleed off in the bowl and the engine will start and run till the carburetor bowl is vacuum
bloccked again.

I have run into this condition a few times in my 60 years working on carubuetored engines.

You can correct the condition by either cutting out a small section of the bowl gasket so a vacuum can't build or you can drill a small hole in the
bowl cover in a place where it dosen't interfer with any component of the carburetor.

Zane
 
(quoted from post at 15:01:26 06/28/18) Zane, why not just clean the bowl vent passage?

Is the bowl vent passage that hole in the very bottom of the float bowl that has some kind of fiber pressed into it?
 

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