newbie key question

Moabdave

New User
I just got an 8n. I know nothing about it but I love it. I noticed that with the key turned to any position the engine would still turn over. So I removed the 3 wires from the key switch, and the engine still turns over. Is this normal? (I dont know if it would start, as there is no gas in it).
 
The key only provides power to the coil.

Pressing the starter button provides power to the starter.

You might want to invest in the manuals before you break something. See tip # 39.


And you need to turn the gas on too.
75 Tips
 
Good advice and I will follow it. My question remains, with the key assembly removed, if I step on the starter button, should the starter turn over, or no?
 
Welcome to the forum. Yes, it is normal for the engine to roll over
when you press the neutral safety start button by the shifter,
regardless of key position. However, an original style key switch
only had two wires so you may need to look at how it's wired.
 
As it left the factory, YES, the engine will crank anytime the starter button is depressed, no matter what position the key switch is in.

If you find this undesirable (as I do) and are reasonably electromechanically adept, it's easy to fix that. Replace the starter solenoid with the part number shown, and change the wiring as shown.

<img src = "http://www.gondtc.com/~blweltin/Bob/8N4-wire%20solenoid.jpg">
 
"Pressing the starter button provides power to the starter."

A technicality, and I know Bruce already knows this, but pressing
the starter button actually provides ground to energize the
solenoid, the solenoid then provides power to the starter.
I point it out only to differentiate that the 8N solenoid is different
from the the 3 wire car type solenoid that uses power to the small post.
If you buy one at a local car parts store, they're likely to give you the wrong one.
 
Great info, thanks all. I have ordered the recommended literature, so that should help. And I'll read the 75 tips(74 to go).

I bought into this 48 8n with my father in law and a neighbor about 10 years ago. I didnt have much use for it at the time,so my father in law enjoyed sole use of it. The neighbor has passed away. The fellow we bought it from has moved away. My father in law is not mechanical, and had a mechanic who enjoyed working on it. The mechanic passed away a few years ago..so the tractor has been deteriorating for lack of love and maintenance for a few years. Sitting out in the hot Utah sun 24/7 probably hasnt helped either.

So my father in law towed it over and now it's here. Seems to have multiple issues mostly related to carburetion. And the key assembly that I just bunged up :D

I mostly want to halt the deterioration while my wife and I decide what level of restoration we want to do. I have some mechanical knowledge (currently doing a frame off nut and bolt restoration of a 75 Bronco), and adequate shop space and tools, but zero knowlege of vintage Ford tractors.

So the journey begins!
 
Great info, thanks all. I have ordered the recommended literature, so that should help. And I'll read the 75 tips(74 to go).

I bought into this 48 8n with my father in law and a neighbor about 10 years ago. I didnt have much use for it at the time,so my father in law enjoyed sole use of it. The neighbor has passed away. The fellow we bought it from has moved away. My father in law is not mechanical, and had a mechanic who enjoyed working on it. The mechanic passed away a few years ago..so the tractor has been deteriorating for lack of love and maintenance for a few years. Sitting out in the hot Utah sun 24/7 probably hasnt helped either.

So my father in law towed it over and now it's here. Seems to have multiple issues mostly related to carburetion. And the key assembly that I just bunged up :D

I mostly want to halt the deterioration while my wife and I decide what level of restoration we want to do. I have some mechanical knowledge (currently doing a frame off nut and bolt restoration of a 75 Bronco), and adequate shop space and tools, but zero knowlege of vintage Ford tractors.

So the journey begins!
 
How do you know the problems are with the carburetor?
Meaning, what tests have you done to make you believe that?
I rebuild the carbs for people but a lot of the time, the problems
are ignition/points related as opposed to carb related.
 
Yes, the non-original key switch leaves me to believe more is also incorrect as well. Is it an original 6V/POS GRN or a 12V/NEG GRN switch over job system? Having the correct wiring is the important factor with either set up. As a new N-Owner, get the essential owners manuals, a copy of Bruce(VA)'s "75 Tips for Owners" and a copy of "WIRING PICTOGRAMS by JMOR" and read religiously. Best to know the do's and don't's before turning that key. The neutral position safety starter switch is designed so gear must be in neutral and key turned before it will start. Some fellers bypass the switch which means the tractor will start IN ANY GEAR -NOT A SMART IDEA. Here are the manuals to start with: I&T F-04; 39-53 MPC; and an 8N Operator's Manual -the correct version for your model year.

FOR 8N TRACTOR ESSENTIAL OWNERS MANUALS:

qI9P22kl.jpg

Tim Daley(MI)
 

Tim, thanks, I ordered the manuals, should be here in a few days.
The tractor was just dropped at my house, and I havent driven it yet. I did see my father in law, the previous owner, drive it around the driveway but it wouldnt run for more tha 20 yards.

I hadnt even looked at the battery, yet. I started with the ignition because the key was broken in the switch so I removed it.

But after reading your message this morning I looked in the battery compartment. A cable,clearly marked positive, grounds to the block.
But the previous owner has the cable that grounds to the block connected to the negative battery terminal, and the other cable connects the positive terminal and the solenoid.
If the po connected the battery cables backwards, could the thing run? Or has it been converted to negative ground system?

It was still too dark out to see much more, but it looks like a 6 volt battery. Has a generator, at least it looks like one.
 

Thanks Royse, you're right, I have made some assumptions, but no tests. What I observed is that gas leaks from the shut off valve when open, maybe when shut
. The shut off valve was left open a few days ago and the tank drained onto the ground.
There is much moisture around the carb and it seems to be dripping gas from somewhere else atound the back of the carb. It needs to be cleaned up so I can see better.
There is no fuel sediment bowl.
I have not driven it myself, but I have seen my father in law get it started a few times by shoving the choke in and out as he cranks it, while messing with the throttle.
 

I forgot to mention that it has no muffler or tailpipe. I'm told that it fell off a few years ago and since he didnt drive it much he didnt bother putting a new one on. I dont really know how long it's been or how much it's been driven without one.
Are there any issues I should be concerned about regarding this?
I have ordered one.
 

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