Made the Trade

nashranch

Well-known Member
added my old 2N tractor yesterday for a 1941 South Bend Metal Lathe. I'm happy and the new owner is happy so all is well. The 2n was original patina...needed both rear tires..but run good for an oldie with low oil pressure.

15992.jpg
15993.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 18:54:21 05/05/18) added my old 2N tractor yesterday for a 1941 South Bend Metal Lathe. I'm happy and the new owner is happy so all is well. The 2n was original patina...needed both rear tires..but run good for an oldie with low oil pressure.

15992.jpg
15993.jpg

***NOTE*** Those are not the tires that I had on the 2N when I traded it
 
(quoted from post at 21:54:21 05/05/18) added my old 2N tractor yesterday for a 1941 South Bend Metal Lathe. I'm happy and the new owner is happy so all is well. The 2n was original patina...needed both rear tires..but run good for an oldie with low oil pressure.

That's a perfect example of a gateway drug. I see more machine tools and financial ruin in your future :roll:

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 08:33:09 05/06/18)
(quoted from post at 21:54:21 05/05/18) added my old 2N tractor yesterday for a 1941 South Bend Metal Lathe. I'm happy and the new owner is happy so all is well. The 2n was original patina...needed both rear tires..but run good for an oldie with low oil pressure.

That's a perfect example of a gateway drug. I see more machine tools and financial ruin in your future :roll:

TOH

BTW,

I have never seen a 40's vintage South Bend lathe that looked like that. The bed and apron look like a Heavy 10 and I can see a South Bend name plate on the end of the bed. But the QC gearbox and headstock are completely different than what was typical of that era South Bend - much newer looking. What does it look like inside the headstock enclosure and does it have a model name or number on it?

TOH
 
That's a nice trade.
It's an odd duck for a south bend with that
square top on it. I'm wondering if someone
didnt add that. The large wheel moves a
variable speed belt clutch to make belt
changes less frequent.
I don't remember that tail stock either.
Yeah, as TOH suggests, youll be buying
tooling for it now. Lucky guy.
I was lucky to get to learn on a SB a bit
larger than that in Navy machinest school.
16" swing iirc and fairly long - 60"?
between centers.
It gave a guy a sense of measuring and
tolerances. Also a sense of materials - how
hard is different than tough, how cast steel
is so much stronger than cast iron.
How it took a real sharp tool to turn the
commutater on generators, etc as they are
real soft copper which likes to gall on you.
Of course I've forgotten more than I knew
then. But a bit of lathework was a good
background for old tractors.
There's a guy I know that has a beautiful
little shop with a Sharp mill with phase
converter and all. And a modern lathe - dont
remember the brand - 15x42"? size.
Lots and lots of tooling. He's getting too
sick now to run the stuff.
Said he'd like to let it all go as a package
deal. Probably in the $30K range.
Wish I had the dough...
I dont know if you've run a lathe before.
Maybe you're an expert. If not go on Ebay
and look for How to run a lathe - published
by South Bend, maybe back in the 1930s.
It's still relevant and helpful.
Sorry for rambling here.
Great trade.
 
(quoted from post at 06:26:10 05/06/18)
(quoted from post at 08:33:09 05/06/18)
(quoted from post at 21:54:21 05/05/18) added my old 2N tractor yesterday for a 1941 South Bend Metal Lathe. I'm happy and the new owner is happy so all is well. The 2n was original patina...needed both rear tires..but run good for an oldie with low oil pressure.

That's a perfect example of a gateway drug. I see more machine tools and financial ruin in your future :roll:

TOH

BTW,

I have never seen a 40's vintage South Bend lathe that looked like that. The bed and apron look like a Heavy 10 and I can see a South Bend name plate on the end of the bed. But the QC gearbox and headstock are completely different than what was typical of that era South Bend - much newer looking. What does it look like inside the headstock enclosure and does it have a model name or number on it?

TOH

Model A TOH.... it is a one of a kind lathe according to the guys on the South Bend Lathe forum.....Pics below of the guts....somebody said it was a 1941 from the serial #

16027.jpg

16028.jpg

16029.jpg

16030.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 22:42:16 05/06/18)
(quoted from post at 06:26:10 05/06/18)
(quoted from post at 08:33:09 05/06/18)
(quoted from post at 21:54:21 05/05/18) added my old 2N tractor yesterday for a 1941 South Bend Metal Lathe. I'm happy and the new owner is happy so all is well. The 2n was original patina...needed both rear tires..but run good for an oldie with low oil pressure.

That's a perfect example of a gateway drug. I see more machine tools and financial ruin in your future :roll:

TOH

BTW,

I have never seen a 40's vintage South Bend lathe that looked like that. The bed and apron look like a Heavy 10 and I can see a South Bend name plate on the end of the bed. But the QC gearbox and headstock are completely different than what was typical of that era South Bend - much newer looking. What does it look like inside the headstock enclosure and does it have a model name or number on it?

TOH

Model A TOH.... it is a one of a kind lathe according to the guys on the South Bend Lathe forum.....Pics below of the guts....somebody said it was a 1941 from the serial #

That is indeed unique. Google found me lots of 9" Workshop lathes including a dozen or more sporting a 644A catalog number but nothing with that headstock enclosure. It certainly looks like a factory job but who knows what some creative genius may have found.

I see a lonely Aloris syle QC tool block in the collection of tooling. If you have the QC tool post that goes with it I'd suggest you dump that rocker setup and install it. If you don't spend a $100 and get an inexpensive set - they are as big an improvement over the rocker tool post as the QC gearbox and apron clutch on your Model A was over the change gear setup on the Model B. Then of course you will need some additional tool blocks, a half dozen or so indexable tool holders, and boxes and boxes of carbide inserts in various geometries ;-)

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 04:27:19 05/07/18)
(quoted from post at 22:42:16 05/06/18)
(quoted from post at 06:26:10 05/06/18)
(quoted from post at 08:33:09 05/06/18)
(quoted from post at 21:54:21 05/05/18) added my old 2N tractor yesterday for a 1941 South Bend Metal Lathe. I'm happy and the new owner is happy so all is well. The 2n was original patina...needed both rear tires..but run good for an oldie with low oil pressure.

That's a perfect example of a gateway drug. I see more machine tools and financial ruin in your future :roll:

TOH

BTW,

I have never seen a 40's vintage South Bend lathe that looked like that. The bed and apron look like a Heavy 10 and I can see a South Bend name plate on the end of the bed. But the QC gearbox and headstock are completely different than what was typical of that era South Bend - much newer looking. What does it look like inside the headstock enclosure and does it have a model name or number on it?

TOH

Model A TOH.... it is a one of a kind lathe according to the guys on the South Bend Lathe forum.....Pics below of the guts....somebody said it was a 1941 from the serial #

That is indeed unique. Google found me lots of 9" Workshop lathes including a dozen or more sporting a 644A catalog number but nothing with that headstock enclosure. It certainly looks like a factory job but who knows what some creative genius may have found.

I see a lonely Aloris syle QC tool block in the collection of tooling. If you have the QC tool post that goes with it I'd suggest you dump that rocker setup and install it. If you don't spend a $100 and get an inexpensive set - they are as big an improvement over the rocker tool post as the QC gearbox and apron clutch on your Model A was over the change gear setup on the Model B. Then of course you will need some additional tool blocks, a half dozen or so indexable tool holders, and boxes and boxes of carbide inserts in various geometries ;-)

TOH

That block you see hold a #2 MT tool kinda like what I put in these pics
16081.jpg
16082.jpg
16083.jpg
16084.jpg


I might invest in the better tool post soon if I can find a good deal on a used setup...kinda leary of the china made stuff but it might work good enuf for my needs
 
(quoted from post at 11:35:19 05/07/18)
(quoted from post at 04:27:19 05/07/18)
(quoted from post at 22:42:16 05/06/18)
(quoted from post at 06:26:10 05/06/18)
(quoted from post at 08:33:09 05/06/18)
(quoted from post at 21:54:21 05/05/18) added my old 2N tractor yesterday for a 1941 South Bend Metal Lathe. I'm happy and the new owner is happy so all is well. The 2n was original patina...needed both rear tires..but run good for an oldie with low oil pressure.

That's a perfect example of a gateway drug. I see more machine tools and financial ruin in your future :roll:

TOH

BTW,

I have never seen a 40's vintage South Bend lathe that looked like that. The bed and apron look like a Heavy 10 and I can see a South Bend name plate on the end of the bed. But the QC gearbox and headstock are completely different than what was typical of that era South Bend - much newer looking. What does it look like inside the headstock enclosure and does it have a model name or number on it?

TOH

Model A TOH.... it is a one of a kind lathe according to the guys on the South Bend Lathe forum.....Pics below of the guts....somebody said it was a 1941 from the serial #

That is indeed unique. Google found me lots of 9" Workshop lathes including a dozen or more sporting a 644A catalog number but nothing with that headstock enclosure. It certainly looks like a factory job but who knows what some creative genius may have found.

I see a lonely Aloris syle QC tool block in the collection of tooling. If you have the QC tool post that goes with it I'd suggest you dump that rocker setup and install it. If you don't spend a $100 and get an inexpensive set - they are as big an improvement over the rocker tool post as the QC gearbox and apron clutch on your Model A was over the change gear setup on the Model B. Then of course you will need some additional tool blocks, a half dozen or so indexable tool holders, and boxes and boxes of carbide inserts in various geometries ;-)

TOH

That block you see hold a #2 MT tool kinda like what I put in these pics

I might invest in the better tool post soon if I can find a good deal on a used setup...kinda leary of the china made stuff but it might work good enuf for my needs

In my experience any of the inexpenive imported (Taiwanese) QC tool post packages will be more than adequate for the typical home shop machinist. They don't repeat to within .001 like a high dollar Dorian or Aloris but not far off. IMO spending significant money for that kind of precision is a waste given the repeatability of your almost 80 year old lathe. You will be fighting the wear on it far more than the accuracy of the cheapest tool holder.

I wouldn't even pay the premium for an imported "name brand" like Phase II. Generic AXA starter sets are as common as dandelions in the spring and additional #2 tool blocks can be purchased for about $10 each. No point in having a QC tool post if you don''t have a decent number of tool blocks to go with it....

TOH
 

The first thing we did when we got to the
lathes was learn how to grind a tool bit to
fit in the rocker style tool holder.
We got graded on the accuracy of our relief
angles, sharpness and even the length of
your new issue tool bit you had left after
many trys :)
We used rocker type holders the whole
program.
When we got to the Fleet they had more
modern machinery and Aloris QCs.
If there was any one thing that increased
the proficiency of a very green machinest it
was those tool posts. They were fantastic
compared to the rocker ones.
 
(quoted from post at 17:57:46 05/07/18)
The first thing we did when we got to the
lathes was learn how to grind a tool bit to
fit in the rocker style tool holder.
We got graded on the accuracy of our relief
angles, sharpness and even the length of
your new issue tool bit you had left after
many trys :)
We used rocker type holders the whole
program.
When we got to the Fleet they had more
modern machinery and Aloris QCs.
If there was any one thing that increased
the proficiency of a very green machinest it
was those tool posts. They were fantastic
compared to the rocker ones.

Thanks UD for your input...looking for a good used Aloris QC or something comparable..I really don't know need that kinda quality on this old timer of a lathe but if the price is right I'd do it.

I'm not really sure what to get to replace the rocker style setup....any recommendations?
 
"I'm not really sure what to get to replace
the rocker style setup....any
recommendations?"

Not sure what you mean by this.
It looks like you have a couple/few tool
blocks for an Aloris QC.
I would buy the tool post that fits them.
I don't know if other brands of QC posts
will interchange blocks with what you have.
TOH probably knows.
You probably don't need top of the line.
Just something that fits the blocks you
have.
 
(quoted from post at 22:18:46 05/07/18)
(quoted from post at 17:57:46 05/07/18)
The first thing we did when we got to the
lathes was learn how to grind a tool bit to
fit in the rocker style tool holder.
We got graded on the accuracy of our relief
angles, sharpness and even the length of
your new issue tool bit you had left after
many trys :)
We used rocker type holders the whole
program.
When we got to the Fleet they had more
modern machinery and Aloris QCs.
If there was any one thing that increased
the proficiency of a very green machinest it
was those tool posts. They were fantastic
compared to the rocker ones.

Thanks UD for your input...looking for a good used Aloris QC or something comparable..I really don't know need that kinda quality on this old timer of a lathe but if the price is right I'd do it.

I'm not really sure what to get to replace the rocker style setup....any recommendations?

The rocker will work fine if you don't care about time spent in tool changes. But time spent changing tools can quickly match or exceed your machining time if you do anything that requires multiple operations - e.g. a part that requires threading, drilling, facing, turning, boring, grooving, chamfering, and parting off. That's where a QC tool holder starts paying for itself.

Here are a couple pictures of my main workstation and tool cart which get used on close to a daily basis The toolpost is a Yuasa that I purchased used for around $50 - they retail for $300+. It's nothing special and a decent import (e.g. Phase II) would work just as well for my purposes. The turning and parting tool blocks are all inexpensive imports that I buy 4 or 5 at a time from CDCO for around $15 each. The blocks are setup with the cutting tools I use on a regular basis - right hand turning tool, left hand facing tool, 45* right hand external chamfering tool, 30* right hand/left hand internal/external chamfering tool, 3mm cutoff blade, mini grooving tool holder, knurling tool, 3/4 & 5/8 boring bar holder, right hand external threading tool holders preloaded with 12, 14, 16, 18, and 20 TPI right hand full profile inserts, and two right hand internal threading tool holders that I load with full profile inserts as required. Small shank boring bars can be held in the #2 grooved turning tool holders which is all I buy. There are probably another half dozen brand new blocks in the drawer waiting for an assignment. The cost for that tooling adds up pretty quickly and really fast if you are buying high dollar Aloris, Yuasa, or Dorian blocks!!!! I get a lot more bang for my buck from the imports and functionally I can't tell the difference between an import and an high dollar block. I've heard lots of complaints about chintzy import clamping screws but I've never had a single problem probably because I don't change tools often and when I do I clean the swarf out of the hex head sockets and use the proper size hex key :roll:

I can go on and on but that's a conversation better suited to the telephone than this forum. Call me if you want the long version. In the mean time buy some way oil, lube that South Bend up good, and put it to work. Remember - a dry machine is an unhappy machine and you don't have auto oilers on that lathe. So keep a pump oiler of way oil handy and use it religiously. You are in for a rewarding learning experience but work safe so you hold on to your eyes and appendages;-)

TOH

LatheStation.jpg


ToolStation.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 04:43:17 05/08/18)
(quoted from post at 22:18:46 05/07/18)
(quoted from post at 17:57:46 05/07/18)
The first thing we did when we got to the
lathes was learn how to grind a tool bit to
fit in the rocker style tool holder.
We got graded on the accuracy of our relief
angles, sharpness and even the length of
your new issue tool bit you had left after
many trys :)
We used rocker type holders the whole
program.
When we got to the Fleet they had more
modern machinery and Aloris QCs.
If there was any one thing that increased
the proficiency of a very green machinest it
was those tool posts. They were fantastic
compared to the rocker ones.

Thanks UD for your input...looking for a good used Aloris QC or something comparable..I really don't know need that kinda quality on this old timer of a lathe but if the price is right I'd do it.

I'm not really sure what to get to replace the rocker style setup....any recommendations?

The rocker will work fine if you don't care about time spent in tool changes. But time spent changing tools can quickly match or exceed your machining time if you do anything that requires multiple operations - e.g. a part that requires threading, drilling, facing, turning, boring, grooving, chamfering, and parting off. That's where a QC tool holder starts paying for itself.

Here are a couple pictures of my main workstation and tool cart which get used on close to a daily basis The toolpost is a Yuasa that I purchased used for around $50 - they retail for $300+. It's nothing special and a decent import (e.g. Phase II) would work just as well for my purposes. The turning and parting tool blocks are all inexpensive imports that I buy 4 or 5 at a time from CDCO for around $15 each. The blocks are setup with the cutting tools I use on a regular basis - right hand turning tool, left hand facing tool, 45* right hand external chamfering tool, 30* right hand/left hand internal/external chamfering tool, 3mm cutoff blade, mini grooving tool holder, knurling tool, 3/4 & 5/8 boring bar holder, right hand external threading tool holders preloaded with 12, 14, 16, 18, and 20 TPI right hand full profile inserts, and two right hand internal threading tool holders that I load with full profile inserts as required. Small shank boring bars can be held in the #2 grooved turning tool holders which is all I buy. There are probably another half dozen brand new blocks in the drawer waiting for an assignment. The cost for that tooling adds up pretty quickly and really fast if you are buying high dollar Aloris, Yuasa, or Dorian blocks!!!! I get a lot more bang for my buck from the imports and functionally I can't tell the difference between an import and an high dollar block. I've heard lots of complaints about chintzy import clamping screws but I've never had a single problem probably because I don't change tools often and when I do I clean the swarf out of the hex head sockets and use the proper size hex key :roll:

I can go on and on but that's a conversation better suited to the telephone than this forum. Call me if you want the long version. In the mean time buy some way oil, lube that South Bend up good, and put it to work. Remember - a dry machine is an unhappy machine and you don't have auto oilers on that lathe. So keep a pump oiler of way oil handy and use it religiously. You are in for a rewarding learning experience but work safe so you hold on to your eyes and appendages;-)

TOH

LatheStation.jpg


ToolStation.jpg

Know there's a lot of knowledge and dedication to the metal lathe industry
 

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