Clutch pedal has no tension

mcglockin

Member
Hello! I have been lurking this forum for a little while. I have been working on getting a 1952 Ford 8n up and running. I have gotten it running, but now I need to get it moving! The big problem I am having is the clutch is stuck. There is no tension in the pedal to release. Only about an inch at the bottom. Im not sure if this is a bigger internal problem as the pedal wont go back up on its own or if its the same problem everyone has been plagued with. To me it sounds like most people have tension on their pedal. I have check the linkage it is all good. Thanks for your help!
 
ONE possibility is that the T.O. bearing is rusted/gummed/stuff to the tube it slides one, an in the "release" position.
 
Thank you for your suggestion. I will add that the clutch is not engaged. With it running it will grind when trying to put it into gear. There is a tiny bit of tension at the very bottom of the pedal but only like an inch or so.
 
Yes sorry, disengaging the clutch will allow you to shift. Right now I cant shift it without trying to force it into gear and I dont want to do that.
 
Adjust the linkage till you have at least three inches of pressure when pedal is depressed.

If it won't come back up the return springs on the throw out bearing collar could be broken or missing and or the tube rusted up bad.

I had a Toyota pickup truck that the clutch would not engage and the tube on it was corroded so bad the throw out bearing collar would not come back to engage the clutch. Had to remove the transmission and case to free it up and replaced the clutch while I was in there.
I have been a mechanic full time and am 82.5 years old and lucky me still have all my fingers and toes.

Zane
 
(quoted from post at 02:24:54 01/28/18) Sounds like a linkage problem. Clevis on left side cracked, bolt sheared on throw out bearing fork?

Its rare BUT would be the FIRST place I would look..

Clevis on left side cracked... :wink: I understand it does he...
 
Sorry I couldn't see the quote. The linkage looks to be good, I checked underneath it as well. Everything looks intact on the outside.
 

"Have someone press the clutch pedal" while you are looking at the cleaves here.


9688.jpg
9690.jpg


You will not see a crack till you load the cleaves. If its cracked it will open up under a load Inspect all the linkage under a load. The cleaves is attached to the cross shaft with a pin the pin could be sheered. The clutch fork inside the bell housing is also attacked with a pin that can also sheer.

This is a 48 yours may differ but the same principle.
 
You can check the linkage with the clutch blocked down.
Note the 2 x 4 here blocking mine down.
Blocking them down in this, or a similar manner, is a good idea
every time they are stored for any length of time.

9691.jpg
 
Ok! Thanks for the advice Royse. Hopefully the rain will let up a little bit tomorrow and I can check it out. Im hoping I wont have to split it.
 
I went out this morning to inspect. I pinned the clutch down with some vise grips which was only about an inch to an inch and a half of travel. I did not notice any cracks or anything. I took out the pin going through the eye bolt and it looks to be in good shape. I pushed the clutch arm all the way down and it bottomed out at about the 530 position. When fully engaged it sits at about the 4 o'clock position. There is only about 2 more threads of adjustment. I can upload some pictures later if it would help.
 

The crack will appear on the yellow mark the linkage pulls up yellow mark pressure side.

9710.jpg


This one is about out of provision to make adjustment the pedal has about 3" of engagement travel. It has about 2" of free play in the pedal. Total travel on the cross shaft is only about 3/16".

I went back to my notes on this one because I know something cracked. It looks like I did not replace the clevis it was the EYE bolt that cracked on the end look the end of the eye bolt over good under PRESSURE!.
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That's why I like to have someone press the clutch while I look at it and get under it if I have to. If you are sure the linkage in in good condition and is out of adjustment you will have to dig into the machine to find the issue...

Bot forgot cross shaft travel pix. In rest position
9714.jpg


Pedal pressed all the way down

9715.jpg
 
Hobo NC did you buy the new parts specifically for the 8n (if so if you had the part # that would be great). Or did you just go to the parts store and get some that would work?
 
Here are some pictures of what I am working with. The first photo is where it sits with no pressure on the pedal. Here I have tightened the eye bolt adjuster almost all the way in. The next photo is with the pedal pressed as far as it can go. But no as you can see its bottoming out, and the pedal is not all the way down.
a255248.jpg

a255250.jpg
 
Thank you very much for the help. Im thinking about taking the steering off to look down in and see about those springs. Messing with this clutch linkage over and over I may just be chasing my tail if the spring is broken inside.
 
It really is not that hard to split the tractor, floor jack and some wooden cribbing. does help to have it on concrete surface, and a nice dry day. MAybe an hour to split.
 
Ok thanks, just support the front with some cribbing and put the rear on a jack and push the rear out when you have the bolts out?
 
Yep, but block the front tires so they stay put, I used wedge shape peiece of wood betwee pitman arn and front axle.
 

looks like it did post I kept hitting post it keep kick'N it back... My internet has been off and on for the last 24 hr...
 
(quoted from post at 16:48:05 01/29/18)
see wedge block in photo:
9784.jpg
Thanks a ton for the picture and the advice. Looks like you had your hands full. What were you doing? The picture helps a lot with where you have stuff placed, and what you took off and didnt have to take off
 
Yes, thank you very much the parts have been ordered. I got the clutch adjust arm off the shaft and there was a pretty big spot in the bottom rear where they had jb welded a crack before me. I believe and am hoping that this is the problem. It was pretty well split apart. Thanks a lot for your advice and pictures Hobo!! I will keep you all updated when I get my new parts in.
 

If you do have to split it do it the SAFE way by getting a trailer jack with a wheel, and bolting it to the side of the rear housing. You remove the round plate where your PTO shift lever is and lean the jack agains the housing where the plate was. You then take measurements and fabricate or get fabricated a bracket using two inch angle stock to bolt between the housing and the jack. It will be impossible for the rear to slip off the jack.
 

Dunno what his wedge does it does need a wedge between the front axle support and the axle on both sides. The wedge makes the engine to axle ridged with out a wedge on both sides the engine could tip one way are the other.


http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1320349&highlight=jack

I roll the rear its just easier... Even if I did not go the trailer jack trick I roll the rear.... The trailer jack trick is not my invention I read about it and said I can do'da... I B A Sum A Buick its is the cat meow..

Don't forget when you slide it back together thigh'N a few trans to engine bolts and check clutch operation.... Engage PTO check PTO can not be turned by hand, block clutch pedal down check the PTO can be turned by hand.
 
(quoted from post at 20:01:08 01/29/18)
Dunno what his wedge does it does need a wedge between the front axle support and the axle on both sides. The wedge makes the engine to axle ridged with out a wedge on both sides the engine could tip one way are the other.


http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1320349&highlight=jack

I roll the rear its just easier... Even if I did not go the trailer jack trick I roll the rear.... The trailer jack trick is not my invention I read about it and said I can do'da... I B A Sum A Buick its is the cat meow..

Don't forget when you slide it back together thigh'N a few trans to engine bolts and check clutch operation.... Engage PTO check PTO can not be turned by hand, block clutch pedal down check the PTO can be turned by hand.

If you had xray vision, you would see the wedge on the other side. I was replacing the transmission so had more removed than normal.
 
Well I installed my whole new linkage kit with all new bolts and it still doesnt work. When I set the shaft all the way at the bottom of rotation I then connect the pedal. Then when pressing the pedal you can feel a spot of tension and then it just gives way and loses all tension. Im thinking something is broken on the inside as I can hear a small clank when pushing the clutch past the point of little resistance.
 
(quoted from post at 17:08:43 02/02/18) Well I installed my whole new linkage kit with all new bolts and it still doesnt work. When I set the shaft all the way at the bottom of rotation I then connect the pedal. Then when pressing the pedal you can feel a spot of tension and then it just gives way and loses all tension. Im thinking something is broken on the inside as I can hear a small clank when pushing the clutch past the point of little resistance.
Sounds like it is time to split it. be safe and install wedges like my photo and where hobo talks about. you don't want themotot to flop over on you. My wedges keep the tires from moving when you don't want them to to.
 
Yea I think so, the F04 manual has been ordered. I am excited to get into it. Thank you very much for the pictures, and advice!
 
when pressing the pedal you can feel a spot of tension and then it just gives way

Though not very common, my suspicions remain with the rivet or fork. You will know after the split.

mvphoto10049.jpg


Note: Fork is slid aside for clarity.
 
(quoted from post at 03:01:45 02/03/18)
when pressing the pedal you can feel a spot of tension and then it just gives way

Though not very common, my suspicions remain with the rivet or fork. You will know after the split.

mvphoto10049.jpg


Note: Fork is slid aside for clarity.

I have similar suspicions, I will keep you all updated when I pull it apart.
 
(quoted from post at 19:00:32 02/08/18)
BTW this is a pix of one that the parts were so worn the clutch would not release that sounds much like yours.

clutchlinkage004.jpg

Yes they we worn pretty good. I replaced the whole assembly. But when pressing the pedal it would give a little resistance then go all the way down. Then I would have to disconnect the linkage from the pedal to reset it. Feels like something is not catching on the inside.
 

Then I would have to disconnect the linkage from the pedal to reset it.

Got to be sum'N to that statement... I will sleep on it... Sounds like your are driving past something and have to back up to see it again
Info I think you left out till now....
 

I think I would get hold of the leaver and give he a spin its got to come to a stop somewhere and no need to back'er up...
 
(quoted from post at 20:11:19 02/08/18)
I think I would get hold of the leaver and give he a spin its got to come to a stop somewhere and no need to back'er up...

Ill give it a shot, any specific way? Or whatever way itll turn? Do you think the clutch fork got spun around? Thanks for all the help!
 
(quoted from post at 09:23:52 02/09/18)
(quoted from post at 20:11:19 02/08/18)
I think I would get hold of the leaver and give he a spin its got to come to a stop somewhere and no need to back'er up...

Ill give it a shot, any specific way? Or whatever way itll turn? Do you think the clutch fork got spun around? Thanks for all the help!

I would think in it original direction of travel its not gonna fix it but prove what you may find once to get into it....
 

Been thinking about your "reset statement" I am not sure what you mean by dat. Take the floor board (FB) off the FB is the pedal stop it would be interesting to see how it works from there...

All in and done with the fix the FB needs to put back on to adjust and check normal operation :wink:
 
mcglockin, did you figure out what was wrong with your clutch?
I took this roll pin out of an 8N. It reminded me of your post.

10836.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 02:21:35 02/21/18) What Royce said - Inquiring minds want to know.
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11204.jpg
11205.jpg

Sorry for the delay, its been very rainy and since Im working on it outside I havent had the chance to work on it. Today I split it, and found the pilot bearing was stuck all the way out as you can see in the picture. This was causing the lack of tension in the pedal. I worked it loose and got it working again. But when I put it back together it feels as if it doesnt contact the fingers on the pressure plate. It has tension but you can tell its not pressing anything. So any suggestions?? Thanks everyone for the help again so far, and apologies for the delay!
 

It looks to me like those fingers are way down deeper in there than they are supposed to be. Are those fingers held down in there by spring tension?
 
But when I put it back together it feels as if it doesnt contact the fingers on the pressure plate. It has tension but you can tell its not pressing anything. So any suggestions??

Nothing looks out of place in your photos. Might just need to have the clutch adjusted? At a minimum, I would remove the rust on the input shaft, resurface the pressure plate and go back with a new: pilot bearing, clutch disk, pressure plate and throw out bearing. If the T/O bearing return springs seem weak, replace them too.
 

Whut he said... looking at it its hard to say There is a spec for clutch finger height whodathunkit... look it up... its not that hard to check it...
 
(quoted from post at 19:45:39 02/21/18)
It looks to me like those fingers are way down deeper in there than they are supposed to be. Are those fingers held down in there by spring tension?
I think the fingers are seized in that position because the throw out bearing was stuck out. Looks to me like that piece on the outside of the pressure plate is stuck up when it needs to be down.
 
I think Im going to put all new in there. Ive got the F-04 manual but its not very specific on changing the clutch and pressure plate out. Any good links to doing it or tips?
 

Off the top of my head I think clutch finger height is 2"... Lay a straight edge across the the pressure plate cover measure from straight edge (SE) to flywheel then from SE to clutch finger deduct finger measurement should be 2".... The same apply s to a new clutch set up... You can make a tool to dodat sorry don't have a pix are mesuments but have the tool tho I have never used it... The straight edge/level works great never needed the tool...

BTW are all the springs in the center of the clutch disc its not uncommon to see one go MIA and lodge between the clutch disc and flywheel... Looks like that tractor has not seen action for a long time..
 
(quoted from post at 06:05:31 02/22/18)
Off the top of my head I think clutch finger height is 2"... Lay a straight edge across the the pressure plate cover measure from straight edge (SE) to flywheel then from SE to clutch finger deduct finger measurement should be 2".... The same apply s to a new clutch set up... You can make a tool to dodat sorry don't have a pix are mesuments but have the tool tho I have never used it... The straight edge/level works great never needed the tool...

BTW are all the springs in the center of the clutch disc its not uncommon to see one go MIA and lodge between the clutch disc and flywheel... Looks like that tractor has not seen action for a long time..

No it hasnt, thanks very much for all the help! I think for the price of a new clutch and Pressure plate Ill go all new. The tractor didnt run when I got it. I got it running great, no smoke or anything. Now I need to get it to move haha.
 

If you got a level and a tape measure measure those fingers... If for nuttin else you need to check finger height on a new set up... If you don't have a level and a tape measure we may have to come and pick up your man card...
 
(quoted from post at 17:44:40 02/22/18)
If you got a level and a tape measure measure those fingers... If for nuttin else you need to check finger height on a new set up... If you don't have a level and a tape measure we may have to come and pick up your man card...

Haha!! I have a level and a tape measure. Im going to measure it tomorrow after work. I will have measurements and pictures to prove that I have a level and tape measure tomorrow evening. Stay tuned Hobo!
 

I am with showcrop lets take the guess out of it... The tool don't know were I got the measurements to make it, here are somewhere else dunno... You don't need it tho...

Tool

11287.jpg


No need to have a tool use a straight edge and do the math it still works out to 2". Turn tapes around tho... The last time I studied math 2 1/4" from 4 1/4" twuzz 2"...

11288.jpg
 
Just by looking at it I can tell its not 2 inches. But I will get measurements tomorrow. Thanks for the pics!
 
(quoted from post at 17:41:48 02/23/18)
1-7/8" a typo I recon...

1/8" is BIG.... The total travel is around 3/8" (my guess)...

From the outside of the pressure plate to the tip of the pressure ate finger was on 7/8ths of an inch
 
(quoted from post at 21:20:25 02/23/18)
(quoted from post at 17:41:48 02/23/18)
1-7/8" a typo I recon...

1/8" is BIG.... The total travel is around 3/8" (my guess)...

From the outside of the pressure plate to the tip of the pressure ate finger was on 7/8ths of an inch
The measurement you need is 2 inches from the flywheel surface to the clutch fingers, that is what HOBO's jig is setup for.
Your measurement does not relate to that.
 
The measurement you need is 2 inches from the flywheel surface to the clutch fingers, that is what HOBO's jig is setup for.
Your measurement does not relate to that.[/quote]

Right I got an 1-7/8ths, I subtracted the length of the PP to the fingers from the length of the PP to the flywheel...
 
You can make a tool to dodat sorry don't have a pix are mesuments but have the tool tho I have never used it... The straight edge/level works great never needed the tool.

Sorry for coming late to the party but for posterity, here are finger height tool dimensions:

mvphoto11394.jpg


Measurements taken with pressure plate installed on flywheel.
 
(quoted from post at 02:25:24 02/24/18)
You can make a tool to dodat sorry don't have a pix are mesuments but have the tool tho I have never used it... The straight edge/level works great never needed the tool.

Sorry for coming late to the party but for posterity, here are finger height tool dimensions:

mvphoto11394.jpg


Measurements taken with pressure plate installed on flywheel.

Thank you, I think Ill make one for when I put a new one on to avoid any confusion. Any other suggestions of things to do while I have it apart?
 
"Any other suggestions of things to do while I have it apart?"

Suggestions, whether you choose to do them or not.
Resurface the flywheel, change the pilot and throw out bearings
and change the transmission input shaft seal.
 
(quoted from post at 08:28:43 02/24/18) "Any other suggestions of things to do while I have it apart?"

Suggestions, whether you choose to do them or not.
Resurface the flywheel, change the pilot and throw out bearings
and change the transmission input shaft seal.

Thanks Royse! I will do them all while I have it apart. I plan on trying to work it once I get it back together, so I dont want to take it apart again anytime soon.
 

SEAL 8N7052A

You will also need a gasket 9N7086

m
Make sure you install it in the correct direction... Its EZ to install it backwards :(

Also don't believe every thang you read hear that seal is meant to retain oil all the oil you can throw at it...
 
(quoted from post at 17:17:30 02/26/18)
SEAL 8N7052A

You will also need a gasket 9N7086

m
Make sure you install it in the correct direction... Its EZ to install it backwards :(

Also don't believe every thang you read hear that seal is meant to retain oil all the oil you can throw at it...

Thank you Hobo!! Im sorry for all the questions, I'm totally new to tractors. Ive always worked on cars and trucks, I have a 94 z71 with an ls swapped motor but tractors are foreign. Thanks for the help and info!
 
I am reassembling my tractor and in pushing it back the wedges loosened and now my motor is slightly tipped. Any hints on how to get it straightened back up?
 
(quoted from post at 14:10:05 03/11/18) I am reassembling my tractor and in pushing it back the wedges loosened and now my motor is slightly tipped. Any hints on how to get it straightened back up?

How about jacking the low side under the axle? You weren't by any chance moving the front instead of the back like you were advised to do? in order for it to mate together you will need to raise the rear tire with a board under it on the same side that you will jack the front up. It appears that you are on plywood, so you will need some rods through from the front to the corresponding holes in the back to "steer it" into alignment.
 
How about jacking the low side under the axle? You weren't by any chance moving the front instead of the back like you were advised to do? in order for it to mate together you will need to raise the rear tire with a board under it on the same side that you will jack the front up. It appears that you are on plywood, so you will need some rods through from the front to the corresponding holes in the back to "steer it" into alignment.[/quote]

I was jostling the front getting it to mate together and in doing so the wedges loosened and I didn't realize it until I got it about a quarter inch apart and noticed the holes were not lining up. I tried jacking the axle up on the low side but it did not change it. I will try jacking up the low side axle and raising the rear tire. Thank you.
 
When mating the engine to the bellhousing are the pp fingers supposed to go compress towards rhe flywheel? Ive got it almost together but its giving me a ton of trouble with the last 3/4 of an inch. I looked through the side and noticed the pp finers were compressed amd it just seemed like they shouldnt be.
 
(quoted from post at 01:24:17 03/16/18) The throw out bearing should not contact the pressure plate levers until you depress the clutch.

It the throwout bearing is still free. Im gonna take it apart again and see if anything is in the way
 
Ensure the clutch disk isn't backwards. The long side of the hub faces the transmission.

Loctite the pressure plate bolts and torque them to 20ftlbs.
 
(quoted from post at 08:32:44 03/16/18) Ensure the clutch disk isn't backwards. The long side of the hub faces the transmission.

Loctite the pressure plate bolts and torque them to 20ftlbs.

It is facing the right direction, and I will loctitie the pressure plate bolts. Thanks for the advice
 
The 3/4" interference dimension makes me wonder if the input shaft is not fitting in the pilot bearing? Assuming your replaced the pilot bearing, did you verify fitment prior to installation?
 
(quoted from post at 23:42:19 03/16/18) The 3/4" interference dimension makes me wonder if the input shaft is not fitting in the pilot bearing? Assuming your replaced the pilot bearing, did you verify fitment prior to installation?

No I did not, but the new pilot bearing was the same as the old. So I assumed it would be the same. The engine did tip slightly to one side due to a loose wedge. I have the engine straight again.
 

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