New *n? Owner Seeking Advice

Greetings,

I recently aquired from a friend, what we understood to be a 1948 Ford 8N, which he himself owned and used for several years. It's nothing pretty, and other than being a bit finicky to start sometimes its gotten the job done, thus far. I've no intentions on restoring it to its former glory, I simply aim to utilize it to plow snow / grade the driveway, and brush hog, along with various other tasks that are not to demanding.

My friend never has been one to maintain his equipment, where as I on the other hand was taught that a well maintained truck / tractor will rarely ever leave you stranded, which has proven to be true for me. That being said, I am in the process of addressing all the neglect while there is a break in the weather, starting with removing the hood and radiator and cleaning from the instrument panel forward, the years of built up grim and oil...what a mess!

After considering the pros and cons acquired from other posts here in the forums I've purchased both a 12 volt conversion kit, as well as a spin on oil filter adapter from eBay that some have recommended here, along with a complete tune up kit.

With the front half of the tractor clean and dry, and rid of virtually all the grim, the first thing I am wanting to tackle is converting the oil filter, which leads me to my first question. Upon looking at my oil lines I noticed that they do not appear to correlate with photos or videos I am seeing online when referencing a 1948 8N. Everything I am seeing shows the outlet line running around the front of the engine to the governor, where as mine exits the housing directly underneath and goes straight into the block through a 2" line. Upon further investigation online I learned that these short lines into the block were used in the 9N's from 39 to 44? My understanding has always been that 9N's had 3 forward gears, and 8N's had 4 forward gears, (which mine has along with the typical 8N brake and clutch pedals with the tread pattern). Perhaps this tractor is a compilation of different years into one?

I have the spin on adapter at this point so I intend on using it, but now I question how to run the oil lines without the risk of compromising the pressure. Should I run a new line to the governor and plug the inlet in the block, or should I use the existing setup?

One other question I have is in regards to the tappet cover gaskets. That side of the engine was a oily grimy mess which leads me to believe that the cover gaskets need replacing. With much time and effort I was able to clean that side quite well without removing the carb and manifold. The carb is not a big concern, but can I accomplish replacing the gaskets without the manifold coming off? Everything above the tappet covers appear well sealed and thus the bolts on the manifold are quite rusted and dry, and I have concerns one or more studs may break off in the process.

This go around (before the snow hits again) I aim to accomplish the oil filter adapter, the 12 volt conversion kit, new coolant hoses and thermostat, and the tune up (plugs, wires, cap, etc). Then in the spring I plan to rebuild the carb, replace the worn draglinks/tie rods, repair the useless brakes (which are no doubt due to faulty axle seals), and fix the PTO seal which leaks more than I care to see.

Any advice regarding the oil lines, and anything else I mention above would be greatly appreciated.

Kindly, Mark
 
As a new owner of a FORD N-SERIES TRACTOR, the first thing is to get the essential manuals one needs ?see picture below. Other documents can be downloaded as well, like Bruce(VA)?s 75 Tips for N-Owners, Wiring Pictograms by JMOR, and many other important documents on PM and such. Operator Manual has a ton of info, SAFETY, maintenance, and valuable info; and the I&T F-04 Manual is the bible FOR REPAIRS. I do have to say this. One of the many mistakes newbies makes is to assume that converting to 12-volts is absolutely a must ?it isn?t. The second issue I have is why do you think you need a spin-on oil filter ?it isn?t needed either. You say you will only be plowing snow with it. So, how often do think you will need to be doing an oil change? The basic design of the N oil system as Henry built it works fine. An oil change takes maybe an hour and that includes getting the engine hot and draining the old oil. It amazes me why some try to reinvent the wheel. Read more about 12-volt conversions. If engine is worn and no rebuild is planned soon, yeah, may be okay, even adding an EI. I?d say a good percentage of 12-volt ?conversions? are done improperly and one only needs to follow the daily posts here to see what I mean. I don?t condemn 12 volts if done for the right reasons and done CORRECTLY, but to just say ?I want a 12-volt system? thinking it is best, or because someone else said so, isn?t very pro-active forward thinking. What?s wrong with it (6-volt) now? Your ?finicky? comment leads me to believe there are issues like fuel flow, wrong wiring, bad electrical, i.e. battery, and/or other items that, by your own words, the PO neglected to maintain. Have you checked for spark, fuel flow, and condition of battery? Why do you want to remove the hood and radiator? You are 25% of the way to tearing down the engine for a rebuild at that point. Is the radiator an issue now? Plans to get it boiled and recored? The same goes with the gas tank. If you insist on removing the hood, what about getting the gas tank cleaned? You need to do some more investigating, reading, and thinking things thru first is what I?m saying. This is just my advice, my pearls of wisdom to share because you asked, so If you decide to go ahead with your plans, I?d be interested in buying your old generator and voltage regulator ?my email is open. I also rebuild carbs and front-mount distributors.

FORD 8N OWNER ESSENTIAL MANUALS:
qI9P22kl.jpg
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Tim Daley(MI)​
 
I question how to run the oil lines without the risk of compromising the pressure. Should I run a new line to the governor and plug the inlet in the block, or should I use the existing setup?

One other question I have is can replace valve chest gaskets without the manifold coming off?

Welcome to the forum!

To answer your question about oil line routing - It sounds like the PO modified the original configuration. A photo would clarify.

Below image shows original design for oil flow:

mvphoto9424.jpg



You can change the valve cover gaskets with the manifold in place but it will more difficult.
 
Re the oil lines, you wouldn't be the first guy to buy a N tractor with the year/model being misrepresented. See tip # 71 to ID the engine, then check out John Smith's site to ID the entire tractor. (http://www.oldfordtractors.com/idhistory.htm) Engines are interchangeable between models.

As to the canister oil filter, I own 4 8N's, 3 restored and have yet to see a need for a canister oil filter. The OEM filter is more than adequate for the engine and cartridges are easy to find (see tip # 64). If you are looking for a quick project that will enhance your N significantly, see tip # 42. And once you get inside of that distributor, that will probably need rebuilding. A rebuilt distributor and new wiring will be a much greater benefit than an oil filter adaptor IMHO.

Re the valve covers, yes, you can replace the gaskets w/o removing the manifold.

If you got that tune-up kit from eBay, there is a very good chance that you got junk parts. See tips 66,67 & 68. Best sources for parts are here (YT) nnalert's and Dennis Carpenter. Avoid TSC.

And scroll down to read my posts re problems w/ frontmount points.

Re replacing the pto seal, tune-up, axle seals, etc........all the regulars around here have done those repairs multiple times; just [post back before you start and you will get plenty of help.
75 Tips
 
Very Good...TY for the replies, I appreciate the effort! I will respond L8R this afternoon/evening when I have more time
 
(quoted from post at 08:12:59 01/22/18) Very Good...TY for the replies, I appreciate the effort! I will respond L8R this afternoon/evening when I have more time

I agree with Bruce. There is no reason to mess with that oil filter. They do exactly what they're supposed to do. You can walk into any Napa store and buy a Napa 1010 Gold oil filter cartridge.

Mines been working for 67 years.
 

what the heck, i'll pile on and add my voice to the oil filter thing. i had no problem getting a new filter element for the factory canister setup at my local small town auto parts store. converting it to a spin-on filter setup is something i'd suggest u move to the bottom of your list ;)
 
+1 to what Bruce said about the ebay tune up kits, and even just the points and condensers. I bought both. I wish I still had the pictures, but the contact pin on the spring arm was on the wrong side of the arm. I contacted the seller, and sent him a picture of it. He told me he got a few of them in like that, but thought he had fished them all out. He replaced it, but I feel better shopping right here, or from dealers YT members recommend for parts.
+1 also to the oil filter switch. Pretty darn easy to change the original, and it seems to do a good job doing what it's supposed to.
 
Ok, I finally have a moment to respond. To start, after creating this thread I went on to do some more research. In doing so, I learned about the chalk trick and utilizing this I was able to read the SN on the engine, *9N5399*, which if I understand correctly would indicate that my engine is a 1939? This came as a bit of a surprise seeing as the back half is certainly an 8N, but it's all fine and well I suppose...matters little to me so long as it does the jobs I ask of it.

Tim, the tractor did come with the Operators Manual just like the one you posted, as well as a binder with a 9N-2N-8N Parts List, an 8N Tractor Service Information book, and a Shop Manual, most of it appearing to be copies from the originals but informative non the less.

So why the 12 volt conversion? Well for starters this winter here in mid Michigan has already been quite the frigid one with sub zero temps as low as -20F lasting for over 2 weeks straight. Though it seemed to start well enough when the temps were a bit warmer, the 6 volt system did not seem to fair well in those frigid temps. I had to jump start it a few times even after trickle charging the battery a couple times during the same time period. I was told the battery was replaced last winter but it could be older. I just figure the conversion would make it more reliable/stronger in these temps, eliminating some future headaches like backfiring and stalling leaving me sticking halfway into the road while I was plowing in a -10 snow squall and then not wanting to start again without a jump.

In regards to the oil filter adapter, not only I will be using the N for snow plowing the driveway, (which is about 1000' long), but also be bush hog about 4 acres during the growing season, as well as other various chores around the property, so I anticipate changing the oil 2 or 3 times a season. Is it a necessity? Not really, but it would sure make less of a mess and take less time to do an oil change. At this point I already made the purchase so it's either use it or store it on a shelf. That said, if it is going to compromise the longevity of the tractor than perhaps the shelf would be a better place for it?

I initially took the hood off because the upper radiator hose was leaking and rapidly getting worse so I figured I better fix that before it snowed again, and it was a good thing I did for the hose looks like it had been fried with a torch and was going to fail completely at any time. Once I was that far in I figured I might as well do the tune-up that I planned on doing this spring, which lead to cleaning off the 1/2" of grim on the timing cover and water pump, which lead to...well you can see where I'm going with this. At that point I thought it best to ensure the tractor was going to make it through the remainder of the winter without further need of repair. Don't get me wrong...I do understand where you are coming from and I don't disagree. As I say, I was hoping to not get elbow deep into this project until spring, but apparently the cooling system had different plans.

The finicky comment mainly refers to carburation. Most days the engine fires up straight away and with a feather of the choke she stays running, but it is stalls right after starting chances are it will flood. And if it does flood it's best to just walk away for 30 minutes and then try again. And when it's in the single digits or colder out I'll get one or two chances at this before the electrical system takes a crap. I realize the carb need attention...just add it to the list :roll:

Dollar Bill, TY for the warm welcome! And TY also for the oil line diagram as well as the confirmation that I could get away with changing the tappet cover gaskets without removing the manifold. I thought by looking at it that it was doable with more difficulty but I'd rather go that route than risk busting a bolt or four.

Bruce, yes in my further reading last night I learned that 9N-8N-2N components were largely interchangeable and it is not uncommon. I also read through the "75 Tips" and will be printing these out to go in the binder along with the shop manual/parts list. Very Good Tips one and all! I already have the air filter off in order to clean it and that side of the engine. I have no intentions on replacing it with any other filter method. That I also read up on here prior to my post. I hadn't thought to rebuild the distributor, just clean it up, but I did notice that while spinning it by hand there seems to be intermittent resistance. Is this normal?

The tune-up kit came from West Star Supply and the majority of it appears to be Tisco parts? along with copper core wires, and Autolite plugs. Did I jump the gun here too? FYI, I am rehearsed in points lube on the cam....I rebuilt an Opel 1900 years ago and over the next several years was continually adjusting the point gap due to wear. Wish I had known back then that a quality set of points would probably remedy that problem.

Now that I have the engine cleaned up perhaps it would be a better move to just do the tune-up with the parts I've already bought, clean up all of the electrical connections and test the generator, and change the oil and replace the coolant/hoses and put er' back together till spring while I ponder on the 12 volt/oil adapter conversions more? This way I can see if, more likely where, she is going to leak oil from and address that and the other tasks I decide upon when its warmer out.

In regards to rerouting the oil line to the governor rather than straight into the block... The governor does have a plug where the oil line would go. Would you gents recommend I go that route or leave that alone as is as well?

TY Again for all of those who chimed in. I truly appreciate the wealth of knowledge and mutual support. It's hard to argue with experience!
 
Ford moved the oil line to the governor so it would get lubed.
If your governor has that connection, I would move it there.
Knowing that this may cause another oil leak. :roll:
A 20 inch long, pre-made, 1/4 inch brake line will fit and has the
correct ends on it, but it needs to be bent so it crosses higher
across the back of the head than the original was routed.

Tisco parts are Tisco parts, regardless of where you buy them.
Good, bad or indifferent.

I'm in Ionia county MI, I have tractors that are 6V and 12V.
The 12V tractors do spin faster and start easier in most cases.
A block heater would be a big help and cost a lot less.

As to the carb, it's an updraft. They flood easily. Too much choke
will do it every time. If it runs good other than dripping fuel when
trying to start it, you probably don't have much to worry about.

If you'd like a hand with that carb, shoot me an email.
I rebuild quite a few of them every year and would be willing to
help you rebuild your own. Welcome to the forum!
 
As others have said about oil filter, leave it for now.
I admit changing the canister element can be a PITA but mines been working for going on 75 years.
 
A 20 inch long, pre-made, 1/4 inch brake line will fit and has the
correct ends on it, but it needs to be bent so it crosses higher
across the back of the head than the original was routed.

Sorry, I gave you bad info here. The 20 inch line fits around the
back end of the head to the filter canister. It took a 30 inch line
to fit around the front end of the engine to the governor.

This is my 8N engine I just put them on. The canister on a 9N
engine will be in a slightly different location, but still should work.

9464.jpg


9465.jpg
 
" intermittent resistance."

For every full turn of the shaft, you should feel intermittent resistance 4 times when the points open on the cam lobe.

Any detectable sideways movement in the shaft?

Own a set of digital calipers?
75 Tips
 
I still have my 1947 2N on a 6-volt system. We in northern Ottawa county have had around 75" of snow so far and the temps have been pretty cold. One of the things I learned quickly after getting my tractor was that the load that the hydraulic pump puts on the starter system is significant when it's cold out. My starting technique involves pushing the clutch in to disengage the hydraulic pump until the engine warms a bit and can carry the load.

The engine turns over faster with the pump disengaged.

That oil in the gearbox is thick when there's snow on the ground.
 
(quoted from post at 11:45:38 01/23/18) I still have my 1947 2N on a 6-volt system. We in northern Ottawa county have had around 75" of snow so far and the temps have been pretty cold. One of the things I learned quickly after getting my tractor was that the load that the hydraulic pump puts on the starter system is significant when it's cold out. My starting technique involves pushing the clutch in to disengage the hydraulic pump until the engine warms a bit and can carry the load.

The engine turns over faster with the pump disengaged.

That oil in the gearbox is thick when there's snow on the ground.

I think I learned that from my Dad about 60 or so years ago. He said always push in the clutch when starting any stick shift automobile. Of course that also applies to tractors.
 
Mcharley,

I just refitted (new hoses and fittings) the bypass filter canister on my truck engine.
Not only is it every bit as good as a spin on, it has way longer serviceability because of the size of the element . . . in other words, more time between changes. This one on my engine is very large compared to a spin on.

There's about 22,000 on this engine and when I took the valve cover off last summer, the rocker shaft was super clean with a shining rocker shaft.

For this canister I used to be able to buy two types of elements; one was pap0er and one was cotton waste stuffed. The cotton one was for the summer and the paper one for the wet winter.
With more moisture to deal with one doesn't want to prematurely load up the cotton one with moisture.

In other words I believe that canisters aren't only just as good as (convenient) spin on's, they are BETTER.

9489.jpg

9490.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 14:12:57 01/23/18) For every full turn of the shaft, you should feel intermittent resistance 4 times when the points open on the cam lobe.

Well of course...duh. TY Bruce. I'm sure I would have come to this conclusion on my own once I got into cleaning the distributor. I just brought it into the house to clean it up so I'll check for play. I do have digital calipers but having just pulled them out of the toolbox discovered that the battery is dead. I'll have to get a new battery tomorrow.
 
Hey Bob, my being a weather enthusiast I always enjoy a good storm, in any season, and I've always noticed how relentless that lake effect can be off of Lake Michigan. Y'all get hit almost continually there on the west side. Here in northern Lapeer County we've seen about 30" so far this year, and although we too get lake effect from Huron its not near as often. Our snow is all but gone after this warm up, but I doubt its over yet. I grew up driving mainly manual trans vehicles so throwing in the clutch to start an engine just comes naturally to me. TY for the reminder.

Tall T, thanks for sharing as well. At this point I've come to the conclusion that the canister will stay for now. The 12 volt kit showed up today, but that too is going to sit on the shelf, at least till the weather breaks. I have enough to accomplish just doing the tune up and putting everything back together before the snow flies again. That and my truck wants its garage back :x
 
If this is the first time you have had the distributor off the tractor, check the advance weights. Unscrew the plate hold down screw & remove the C clip to get the plate out. Remove the shaft & weights. The weights should freely move. The tracks should not be wallowed out. Set the timing before you put it back on the tractor.

Make sure your distributor isn?t worn out; check the wear parts with a micrometer and compare what you have to the factory specs (below).

Factory Specs:

Shaft top .4367 / .4370

Shaft Bottom .8625 / .8630

Cam Flats .789 / .791

Cam Lobes .869 / .871

Base Tang .177 / .178
75 Tips
 
Any detectable sideways movement in the shaft?

Before I answer the above I again would like to TY for pointing out the obvious in a kindly manner, Bruce.

As I stated before my digital calipers battery is dead. I do have a couple sets of dial indicator calipers though. I'll be buying a new battery tomorrow. That said, Yes there is sideways movement in the shaft, although minute it is there. Aside from that there is considerable top to bottom play as well. I did see that you just posted the specs...TY

In reading another recent post (and the 75 Tips) I see that the ignition parts I purchased are junk too (did I buy that isn't...lol) Tim is right...I should have done my homework first. I guess I'll be looking for Bluestreak points? What out of this tune up kit can I use, anything? UHG!
 
(quoted from post at 19:06:09 01/23/18)
Any detectable sideways movement in the shaft?

Before I answer the above I again would like to TY for pointing out the obvious in a kindly manner, Bruce.

As I stated before my digital calipers battery is dead. I do have a couple sets of dial indicator calipers though. I'll be buying a new battery tomorrow. That said, Yes there is sideways movement in the shaft, although minute it is there. Aside from that there is considerable top to bottom play as well. I did see that you just posted the specs...TY

In reading another recent post (and the 75 Tips) I see that the ignition parts I purchased are junk too (did I buy that isn't...lol) Tim is right...I should have done my homework first. I guess I'll be looking for Bluestreak points? What out of this tune up kit can I use, anything? UHG!

Top to bottom movement doesn't matter; sideways does.

Re the kit, if the tractor is running, don't replace the condenser. Save the one in the kit for a spare. Get Bluestreak points here or off of Amazon. If cap &amp; rotor fit, use them from the kit. Don't try a cap from one source &amp; a rotor from another.
 

OK, so help me out here, what am I missing? The plate does not want to budge. Even with the timing screw in she will not rotate L or R. It's as if it's fused. I don't want to force it. Even went so far as to try PB Blaster.

mvphoto9518.jpg
 
OK, so help me out here, what am I missing? The plate does not want to budge. Even with the timing screw in she will not rotate L or R. It's as if it's fused.

The large snap ring and timing screw are the only things holding the points plate. Cannot tell due to photo angle but do you have the timing screw removed? It may just need a little persuasion. Differing metals will breed corrosion.


mvphoto9524.jpg
 
Sounds like you're moving in the right direction Mark, and having fun doing so. I live in New England, and use my 9N for plowing snow. It still has the original 6 Volt system and will start in any weather and at any temperature. I did drill a small hole in the intake tube, just big enough for the straw that comes with a can of quick start. I stick the straw in the hole and give it a couple shots, and she has never failed to start. A while back I did have some trouble getting her started and the folks here on YT got me going again. If I remember correctly, it was a bad condenser. You have a great bunch of folks with tons of knowledge here, and they enjoy sharing it.
 
(quoted from post at 21:24:20 01/23/18)
OK, so help me out here, what am I missing? The plate does not want to budge. Even with the timing screw in she will not rotate L or R. It's as if it's fused. I don't want to force it. Even went so far as to try PB Blaster.

mvphoto9518.jpg

More the reason to get it out. Probably hasn't ever been out. Tap left, tap right. Keep at it. And remove the points base. Does it have a working insulator?
 
TY for bearing with me on this. Yes the timing screw is out in the photo, but I did put it back in place (loosely) for a bit to give me something to 'tap' in an effort to get it to turn, to no avail. I am trying to be gentle with it, I don't want to destroy anything. Even getting the bottom half of the points off the plate was a bear and I did end up literally destroying that before it would come off the 'pivot stud', for lack of a better description. I was careful not to damage the pivot stud in the process, and once off, for a reference I tried matching up the new Tisco point set I bought to the stud and it would appear those too will be just as tight so I didn't go any further and will wait till I get the Bluestreak set.

One of the first lessons my father taught me as a kid was when it comes to difficult nuts/bolts, etc, apply some penetrating oil initially and move on to something else. Then periodically apply another dose, and preferably the next day to take another crack at it. With that in mind I applied another dose of PB Blast on the plate last night before I went to bed. Haven't been out in the garage yet as I have a job to complete this morning, so I'll let you know how it went once I give er another go. In regards to the 'insulator' I assume you are referring to the black plastic plate on the right side of the photo that insulates where the condenser and points jumper attach? If so, Yes it appears to be intact.

Greetings Gordo. Speaking of my father above, his name was Gordon (as is my middle name), but everyone at the GM Tech Center and those who knew him well called him Gordo, and now in his honor my close friends call me the same thing :lol: Yeah, it would appear I've prematurely invested a small fortune in aftermarket parts that were not necessarily needed out of haste. I may still use the 12 volt kit in the future but for the time being I am going to put the 6 volt system back into play, checking all the connections, testing the battery and generator in the process and see how it goes from there. Thank You for voicing your opinion.
 
" I am trying to be gentle with it, I don't want to destroy anything"

A voice of experience.

And after market plates are pretty bad. They are pot metal and the screw holes will wallow out about the 3rd time you change the points. I also read one post here where the plate wouldn't even fit in the distributor.
75 Tips
 
If this is the first time you have had the distributor off the tractor, check the advance weights.The weights should freely move. The tracks should not be wallowed out.

Make sure your distributor isn't worn out; check the wear parts with a micrometer and compare what you have to the factory specs (below).

Factory Specs:

Shaft top .4367 / .4370

Shaft Bottom .8625 / .8630

Cam Flats .789 / .791

Cam Lobes .869 / .871

Base Tang .177 / .178

OK, so the PBB did its job (dad would be proud) and with a little coaxing (actually quite a bit) the plate finally came out. I'll clean up the inside of the housing and the edge of the plate with some emery cloth before I put it back together.

Here are my readings...

Shaft Top - .4360

Shaft Bottom - .8600

Cam Flats - .790

Cam Lobes - .8680

Base Tang - .169 at the tips and tapers to .179 at the base

I'm guessing these will suffice?

What about the brass bushings, can/should I consider replacing those or are we just splitting hairs here?

When I slip the top shaft into the bushing in the plate there is a bit of rocking...maybe 3/32" measured at the edge of the plate. Side to side movement is there as well, but very minimal. I get similar results when I slip the bottom shaft into the bushing in the housing...maybe not quite as pronounced.

The advance weights appear to be intact and move freely, and the tracks have a little play in them but probably should. It does not appear to be worn in any way.
 
A voice of experience.

And after market plates are pretty bad. They are pot metal and the screw holes will wallow out about the 3rd time you change the points. I also read one post here where the plate wouldn't even fit in the distributor.

Yeah, I have to admit, I've exercised a few 4 letter words in my day having been to hasty more often than not when I was younger. Still do from time to time :roll:

Having just taken a cloth to the inside of the housing and the edge of the plate, IMO it sure seems to be way too tight a fit. I can't see how I 'd be able to freely adjust the timing once I got everything back in place without exerting considerable force. I'm tempted to take a file to the outer edge of the plate and see if I can't get it to slip into the housing with less effort. Or, should I purchase a new plate instead? This one will likely corrode again over time no doubt. I have to order and wait for points anyways. Thoughts?
 
OK so I decided to take a file to the plate and got it to slide in to my satisfaction...still tight but I'm thinking tight is good, and I'm able to rotate it in order to time it just fine. So as long as the screws still fit adequately I think I'm probably good to go there?

So with that I put the shaft assembly and plate back in place temporarily to try and measure run out. I placed one side of the mic on the shaft housing and did my best to hold it steady while placing the other side of the mic on the shaft itself with the shaft tipped out and took a reading. Then let it free so it would move over to the inside of the bushing and took another reading. I did this with both the top and bottom several times and I come up with pretty much the same numbers every time. Crude I know but it's giving us a rough idea of what the bushing/shaft play is. I come up with 6/1000 at the top, and 8/1000 at the bottom. I'll wait and see what your thoughts are on all the numbers.

Meanwhile I'm thinking on going to the local NAPA and see if I can't score a good set of Bluestreak (or at least Echlin) points and a better cap/rotor as this Tisco cap lines up about as well as my eyesight does without my glasses.
 
Cam is fine.

Measure the ID of the bushings.

Shaft bottom is fine, top is probably ok.

You may need bushings; post back w/ measurements.
75 Tips
 
A distance of .0025 top and .0065 bottom
doesn't seem to me to all out for
replacement, but I'm not that well versed
in acceptable tolerances. Maybe TOH will
help us out.
75 Tips
 
TYVM for all the help, Everyone of you!

I went ahead and reassembled the distributor, but look forward to any further feedback in regards to the bushing variances. Getting the distributor back out is easy enough should I need to replace them. I have to say, this breaker plate does leave a lot to be desired...I had to modify one of the mounting holes in the points in order for it to line up with the screw holes in the plate. It wasn't much but enough to prevent the screw from going in straight. Oh, and one of the distributor clips is broken on the distributor as well and I see they are in the parts section here on YT so I will be ordering those at the very least. Maybe a wire harness as well seing as I will be holding off on the 12 volt conversion.

And being I will be leaving the stock oil filter intact I went ahead and bought an oil filter from NAPA as well, but am still toying with the idea of running a line to the governor. As such I've attached a few photos...one that Dollar Bill made mention of regarding the oil line from the filter to the block, and another of the governor to confirm the plug is where I need to run the line to. The third is of the S/N on the engine. I was just hoping to confirm it is indeed a 39' before I give my friend a hard time for selling me a piecemeal tractor :mrgreen: I don't see anything that would suggest otherwise but I may be missing a number?

9562.jpg
9563.jpg
9565.jpg
 
I will be leaving the stock oil filter intact I went ahead and bought an oil filter from NAPA as well, but am still toying with the idea of running a line to the governor.

Swap the elbow in the block with the plug in the back of the governor. Buy preformed or bend your own oil line and add years of life to your governor.

mvphoto9572.jpg


mvphoto9575.jpg


I'm interested in your oil filter adapter if you decide not to install it. Email is open in Modern View.
 
Very good, DB...TY for the advice. In regards to the adapter, I'll let you know once I complete my recent endeavors.
 
Hi, just saw your post here and read through this.

You are going to find a few of the folks on here seem to think that the 8N is a perfect tractor as it was made and should never be modified. I on the other hand think that if they were perfect they would still produce them as they were originally made. So if you want to make changes do it. I have 2 8Ns. I've converted both to 12 volt and electronic ignition. Both start with ease without being plugged in right down to about -30F. Yea I know about cold like that. West MN here, 60 miles east of the ND border. Everything I own that was originally 6 volt is now 12, 2 8Ns, Farmall M and D4 7U (1948) Cat have all been converted. While it's nice to keep a show tractor original it just isn't practical anymore. Try finding a decent voltage regulator for that 8N. After you make 2-4 maybe more trips to find one that actually works out of the box a 12 volt conversion starts to look good. Plus add in the cost of a new 6 volt battery! Man have they gotten expensive. Last one I bought was about 15 dollars more than a 12 volt. Also you now have to shop around for a battery charger that will charge 6 volt. My shop charger that cost nearly 300 bucks 10 years or so ago has no settings for 6 volt. I converted to electronic ignition because of knee and back problems that make messing with the front mount dizzy difficult for me. I couldn't be happier! It's your tractor. Do what you want to it.

Anyway welcome!
 
(quoted from post at 20:50:22 01/27/18) Hi, just saw your post here and read through this.

You are going to find a few of the folks on here seem to think that the 8N is a perfect tractor as it was made and should never be modified. I on the other hand think that if they were perfect they would still produce them as they were originally made. So if you want to make changes do it. I have 2 8Ns. I've converted both to 12 volt and electronic ignition. Both start with ease without being plugged in right down to about -30F. Yea I know about cold like that. West MN here, 60 miles east of the ND border. Everything I own that was originally 6 volt is now 12, 2 8Ns, Farmall M and D4 7U (1948) Cat have all been converted. While it's nice to keep a show tractor original it just isn't practical anymore. Try finding a decent voltage regulator for that 8N. After you make 2-4 maybe more trips to find one that actually works out of the box a 12 volt conversion starts to look good. Plus add in the cost of a new 6 volt battery! Man have they gotten expensive. Last one I bought was about 15 dollars more than a 12 volt. Also you now have to shop around for a battery charger that will charge 6 volt. My shop charger that cost nearly 300 bucks 10 years or so ago has no settings for 6 volt. I converted to electronic ignition because of knee and back problems that make messing with the front mount dizzy difficult for me. I couldn't be happier! It's your tractor. Do what you want to it.

Anyway welcome!

Sometimes it's just easier to buy a better tractor. I've had my 8N with it's FEL for twelve years. Less than 2 years ago I purchased a MF202 workbull with FEL for half what I paid for the 8N.

I still have the 8N. It's my dedicated mowing tractor now. But the 202 is a much better tractor than the 8N. I have to admit though that when I bought the 202, the hydraulics were not working. The engine was missing like crazy and the FEL was real jerky. All those problems went away with a little care and the price of 8 gallons of hydraulic oil and some oil for the FEL and a new set of spark plugs. I now have a great running 202. The previous owner got it from his Dad and I guess he just didn't want to mess with it and fix it up. Too bad for him.
 
I live in New Hampshire and we've had similar temps this winter, coldest was about -30F and I had no issues starting my 9N with original 6 volt system. My battery is only about 6 month old, it's a Duracell group 1. My guess is your battery is older than the guy said it was. If you look at prices online a Group 1 6 volt Duracell is $80 and a group 35 12 volt from Walmart is $75, not much difference. If you convert to 12V you're looking at an additional $100+ for the kit plus the time to install it vs. just going out and buying a new 6 volt battery.
 
(quoted from post at 09:08:01 01/28/18) I live in New Hampshire and we've had similar temps this winter, coldest was about -30F and I had no issues starting my 9N with original 6 volt system. My battery is only about 6 month old, it's a Duracell group 1. My guess is your battery is older than the guy said it was. If you look at prices online a Group 1 6 volt Duracell is $80 and a group 35 12 volt from Walmart is $75, not much difference. If you convert to 12V you're looking at an additional $100+ for the kit plus the time to install it vs. just going out and buying a new 6 volt battery.

Really? I just looked. According to the weather service you had -30F WIND CHILL, not -30F. We've been at -33F without any wind at all.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 11:03:08 01/28/18)
(quoted from post at 09:08:01 01/28/18) I live in New Hampshire and we've had similar temps this winter, coldest was about -30F and I had no issues starting my 9N with original 6 volt system. My battery is only about 6 month old, it's a Duracell group 1. My guess is your battery is older than the guy said it was. If you look at prices online a Group 1 6 volt Duracell is $80 and a group 35 12 volt from Walmart is $75, not much difference. If you convert to 12V you're looking at an additional $100+ for the kit plus the time to install it vs. just going out and buying a new 6 volt battery.

Really? I just looked. According to the weather service you had -30F WIND CHILL, not -30F. We've been at -33F without any wind at all.

Rick

I was off by 1 degree, it was -29F actual temperature NOT WIND CHILL:

Month of January, 2018
« Previous Month Next Month »
Daily Weekly Monthly Custom
Max Avg Min Sum
Temperature
Max Temperature 55 °F 30 °F 0 °F
Mean Temperature 47 °F 19 °F -10 °F
Min Temperature 43 °F 7 °F -29 °F
 
Either way, that's too damn cold! Did I mention my N sets outside 24/7? I hope to build a pole barn this summer, but for now its home is outdoors.

I sent the 12 volt conversion kit back for a refund. Meanwhile to be safe I tested the 6 volt battery and it is good. The generator on the other hand I had tested as well and it was not putting out a charge, so I left it along with the voltage regulator at the local start/gen shop, they said it should be ready tomorrow. I also tested all the wires in the harness with an ohm meter and everything looks good so I shan't be replacing it and instead rewrapped everything and ran it through with the new plug wires. I went ahead and replaced the amp and oil pressure gauges too and cleaned up all the wire connections. That being said with any luck the 6 volt system ought to work now. If/when the 6 volt battery ever fails I will reconsider switching over to 12 volts if I am not happy with the results.

I also ran a new oil line from the filter to the governor, so that's done. And being the weather is suppose to be decent all week, today I took off the governor and the carb so I could clean those and also get to the inspection plates easier. Both the inspection plates and the governor appeared to have Permatex sealant along with the gaskets. Is this recommended, or no?

That leaves the carb which is coated with a caked on mess, so I'll likely be rebuilding that next before I finish up. May as well...it's off now. Any tips regarding this are welcome. If there is a thread dedicated to it just point me to it.

Hope to have it all back together and fired up next weekend...probably just in time for the next snow :shock:
 
Oh, one more thing...I cleaned up the outside of the air cleaner along with the oil reservoir, which had a couple wasp nests and a bunch of dead wasps floating in it...yeah there was no air cleaner door on the hood...have one of those on the way as well.

My question is...is the top half of the air cleaner serviceable? I see the screen mesh that runs from top to bottom and it appears as though it is clean but I'd like to confirm this. The base of the upper housing appears to be removable but it looks as though it was meant to snap in and stay put and I don't want to force it so thought I'd ask
 
(quoted from post at 17:07:23 01/28/18) Oh, one more thing...I cleaned up the outside of the air cleaner along with the oil reservoir, which had a couple wasp nests and a bunch of dead wasps floating in it...yeah there was no air cleaner door on the hood...have one of those on the way as well.

My question is...is the top half of the air cleaner serviceable? I see the screen mesh that runs from top to bottom and it appears as though it is clean but I'd like to confirm this. The base of the upper housing appears to be removable but it looks as though it was meant to snap in and stay put and I don't want to force it so thought I'd ask

Yes, the mesh inside the air cleaner is replaceable and can be purchased right here from YT You will need two pieces.

There is an easy way to get the new mesh in there. Take a tube for a caulking gun and slide the mesh rolls over it. Now take the caulking tube and place it over the inner tube in the air cleaner.

Slide the mesh rolls into the air cleaner and your done. It can be a hassle trying to just fit those rolls in their without the caulking tube. With the shape your air cleaner cup was in, I'd just remove the whole air cleaner and clean it then put the new mesh in it.

Oh yeah the caulking tube doesn't need to be empty, it can be a brand new tube. Buy anything you may need like adhesive or caulking or anything else in one of those tubes.
 
Did you polarize and/or motor test the generator?
If all it needs is polarizing, it should be done before tomorrow! :)

The air cleaner is completely serviceable. Not necessarily easily.
Sometimes a good soak in gas or diesel will work without disassembly.

As to the carb, cleanliness is next to Godliness. I rebuild a lot of them.
There is nothing there that you can't do yourself though, and I
am willing to help you do it yourself via phone or email. For free.
My email is open on modern view.

Here are before and after pictures of my Krispy Jubilee carb.
Before and afters of the whole project [b:60cee6225f]here[/b:60cee6225f] if you haven't seen them.

9729.jpg


9730.jpg
 

YIKES, yeah that was a mess! Mine is not that bad, but close. Nice Job!

That's mighty kind of you, Royse! Would you recommend the full rebuild kit with all the replacement hardware, and a new float as well, or just the basic set and reuse my levers and float (so long as it floats :wink:)? I see there is a new replacement carb on Amazon with very good ratings for like $90, but I'm confident I could rebuild mine, and I have the time to do so if it would be just as good (or better) for less.
 
I would recommend the complete kit with shafts.
They are brass and they wear down so they don't seal well.
If you need the other parts, such as the butterflies, elbow strainer,
drain valve, etc. then look at the comprehensive kit on YT too.
It even comes with new screws and lockwashers, but may be
overkill depending on your circumstances.

As for the floats, replace them if needed, but otherwise re-use.
I put them in the gallon can of carb cleaner and hang a couple of
old lug nuts on them with a wire to keep them submerged.
If they leak, you'll be able to hear the liquid sloshing in them.
There are other ways to test them too, but since the rest of the
carb is soaking, this is a free test for me to use.
Repairing the floats rarely works well compared to the cost of new.

There are new carbs for sale on eBay for about $50.
I have heard good reviews, but never owned one myself.
I do have several other models of aftermarket carbs.
None of the ones I have work as well as an original M/S and
some, the standard rebuild kit will not fit, so they're disposable.
At $50, compared to a $50 kit, I can't blame folks for trying them.
If you go that route and want to get rid of your original, I'd be interested in it.
 
There are new carbs for sale on eBay for about $50. I have heard good reviews, but never owned one myself.
At $50, compared to a $50 kit, I can't blame folks for trying them.
If you go that route and want to get rid of your original, I'd be interested in it.

At $50 I'll give it a go, it doesn't look as well crafted as the $90 one but if it does the job at the same price as a kit....

TY for your time and advice. I should probably hang onto the old carb as an extra and rebuild it when I have more free time in case the el'cheapo craps out
 
(quoted from post at 22:23:54 01/28/18)
There are new carbs for sale on eBay for about $50. I have heard good reviews, but never owned one myself.
At $50, compared to a $50 kit, I can't blame folks for trying them.
If you go that route and want to get rid of your original, I'd be interested in it.

At $50 I'll give it a go, it doesn't look as well crafted as the $90 one but if it does the job at the same price as a kit....

TY for your time and advice. I should probably hang onto the old carb as an extra and rebuild it when I have more free time in case the el'cheapo craps out
You're welcome! Also, I hear my buddy out in Montana is bored.
Maybe you could send one of them to forum member GB in MT
to rebuild. You're welcome too Gary! ;)
 
So, I'm almost there. Not in time to beat the snow unfortunately, we got over 8" of the white stuff yesterday where I am...almost 11" in Flint which I drove through to get to Steiner for parts. Oh well...anyways, I should be putting the radiator back on tomorrow or Thursday and firing it up.

In preparation I opened the thermostat I bought (don't even remember where from at this point), but I question it being the correct one. If you look at the photo you'll see there's a ridge that prevents it from going into the hose without a lot of force and distorting the hose. Along with it in the photo is the one that was in the old hose (has The Dole Valve Co. Chicago, USA along with the patent #s stamped on it). The tractor didn't seem to overheat before I tore it down and as such I'm half tempted to put the old one back in. Wouldn't be surprised if it was sturdier that the new ones of today. I did read where it is recommended to install a 180 degree rather than the standard 160 degree, but I'd really like to get this thing going and get the driveway plowed.

Any thoughts on reinstalling the old one and calling it a day?
9837.jpg
 
The new ones will fit, but they are tight.
Make sure you put it in the right direction.

No harm in using the old one if it works.
Keep in mind, there purpose is to get it up to temp,
not to keep it cool. An engine that's not hot enough
will not evaporate moisture out of the oil as well.
You can test opening temp with a pan of water on the
stove and a thermometer. Crude, but it works.
 
The new ones will fit, but they are tight.
Make sure you put it in the right direction.

No harm in using the old one if it works.
Keep in mind, there purpose is to get it up to temp,
not to keep it cool. An engine that's not hot enough
will not evaporate moisture out of the oil as well.
You can test opening temp with a pan of water on the
stove and a thermometer. Crude, but it works.

Odd, I can't see my last post...the one you replied to here. Whatsup with that?

Anywho, it obviously is visible to others. TY for the reply, Royse. That ridge won't impede on the hose? It feels rather sharp, and I would think it would place stress on the inside of the hose and cause it to fail over time. The old one was about mid way up the hose and had a clamp around it, I assume to hold it in place? I've read conflicting posts here on where it should go....close to the block, close to the radiator. And the theroy on using a 180 over the 160? Assuming it makes it run more efficient? I know it likes to guzzle the petro.
 
(quoted from post at 19:49:40 01/30/18)
The new ones will fit, but they are tight.
Make sure you put it in the right direction.

No harm in using the old one if it works.
Keep in mind, there purpose is to get it up to temp,
not to keep it cool. An engine that's not hot enough
will not evaporate moisture out of the oil as well.
You can test opening temp with a pan of water on the
stove and a thermometer. Crude, but it works.

Odd, I can't see my last post...the one you replied to here. Whatsup with that?

Anywho, it obviously is visible to others. TY for the reply, Royse. That ridge won't impede on the hose? It feels rather sharp, and I would think it would place stress on the inside of the hose and cause it to fail over time. The old one was about mid way up the hose and had a clamp around it, I assume to hold it in place? I've read conflicting posts here on where it should go....close to the block, close to the radiator. And the theroy on using a 180 over the 160? Assuming it makes it run more efficient? I know it likes to guzzle the petro.
Your post isn't visible to anyone on modern view because you mentioned a competitors name.
I switched to classic view to see it and reply to it.

My theory is, that ridge is to keep it in place and prevent the need
for the clamp. That's opinion only, and I still use a clamp.

180 vs 160 is consistent with getting it up to temp and removing moisture.

I put mine close to the middle of the hose. It might open a little sooner closer to the head.
 
Your post isn't visible because you mentioned a competitors name. My theory is, that ridge is to keep it in place and prevent the need for the clamp. That's opinion only, and I still use a clamp. I put mine close to the middle of the hose. It might open a little sooner closer to the head.

Very Good, Thanks again. I didn't have a high temp thermometer so I placed them both in the same pot and waited til they both opened. The old one opened before the new one did and is a flap style as opposed to the modern plunger style. Being the new one required a higher temp I'll probably go with it and keep the old one for a conversation piece :wink:
 
(quoted from post at 20:18:40 01/30/18)
Your post isn't visible because you mentioned a competitors name. My theory is, that ridge is to keep it in place and prevent the need for the clamp. That's opinion only, and I still use a clamp. I put mine close to the middle of the hose. It might open a little sooner closer to the head.

Very Good, Thanks again. I didn't have a high temp thermometer so I placed them both in the same pot and waited til they both opened. The old one opened before the new one did and is a flap style as opposed to the modern plunger style. Being the new one required a higher temp I'll probably go with it and keep the old one for a conversation piece :wink:
Pointed end toward the radiator on that new style. At least the ones I've used.
Softening the hose in hot, soapy water may make it a little easier to install.
 
Pointed end toward the radiator on that new style. At least the ones I've used. Softening the hose in hot, soapy water may make it a little easier to install.

Right, Thanks Again! I'll post an update in closing after she's up and running, hopefully with 2 thumbs up! Next task, replace the seal in the PTO, which drips considerably when warm. I'll create a new topic if needed, but will make the effort to research some old threads first
 
(quoted from post at 20:42:24 01/30/18)
Pointed end toward the radiator on that new style. At least the ones I've used. Softening the hose in hot, soapy water may make it a little easier to install.

Right, Thanks Again! I'll post an update in closing after she's up and running, hopefully with 2 thumbs up! Next task, replace the seal in the PTO, which drips considerably when warm. I'll create a new topic if needed, but will make the effort to research some old threads first
If you still have the 1 1/8 inch shaft, updating to a 1 3/8 with new seals and all is about [b:c4661de343]$100[/b:c4661de343]
 
(quoted from post at 17:52:56 01/30/18)
(quoted from post at 20:42:24 01/30/18)
Pointed end toward the radiator on that new style. At least the ones I've used. Softening the hose in hot, soapy water may make it a little easier to install.

Right, Thanks Again! I'll post an update in closing after she's up and running, hopefully with 2 thumbs up! Next task, replace the seal in the PTO, which drips considerably when warm. I'll create a new topic if needed, but will make the effort to research some old threads first
If you still have the 1 1/8 inch shaft, updating to a 1 3/8 with new seals and all is about [b:3f393561d9]$100[/b:3f393561d9]

That's good advice about the shaft. I might add that the new 1 3/8" shaft comes complete. All you need to do is shove it in the hole and tighten the four bolts.
 
(quoted from post at 22:02:38 01/30/18)
(quoted from post at 17:52:56 01/30/18)
(quoted from post at 20:42:24 01/30/18)
Pointed end toward the radiator on that new style. At least the ones I've used. Softening the hose in hot, soapy water may make it a little easier to install.

Right, Thanks Again! I'll post an update in closing after she's up and running, hopefully with 2 thumbs up! Next task, replace the seal in the PTO, which drips considerably when warm. I'll create a new topic if needed, but will make the effort to research some old threads first
If you still have the 1 1/8 inch shaft, updating to a 1 3/8 with new seals and all is about [b:3252dd3944]$100[/b:3252dd3944]

That's good advice about the shaft. I might add that the new 1 3/8" shaft comes complete. All you need to do is shove it in the hole and tighten the four bolts.

Wait, so if I am understanding you correctly....4 bolts, out comes old shaft with bad seal, and the new 1 3/8" shaft bolts right up...easy peasy?
 
(quoted from post at 20:41:43 01/30/18)
(quoted from post at 22:02:38 01/30/18)
(quoted from post at 17:52:56 01/30/18)
(quoted from post at 20:42:24 01/30/18)
Pointed end toward the radiator on that new style. At least the ones I've used. Softening the hose in hot, soapy water may make it a little easier to install.

Right, Thanks Again! I'll post an update in closing after she's up and running, hopefully with 2 thumbs up! Next task, replace the seal in the PTO, which drips considerably when warm. I'll create a new topic if needed, but will make the effort to research some old threads first
If you still have the 1 1/8 inch shaft, updating to a 1 3/8 with new seals and all is about [b:208cf77937]$100[/b:208cf77937]

That's good advice about the shaft. I might add that the new 1 3/8" shaft comes complete. All you need to do is shove it in the hole and tighten the four bolts.

Wait, so if I am understanding you correctly....4 bolts, out comes old shaft with bad seal, and the new 1 3/8" shaft bolts right up...easy peasy?

Correct, the shaft comes complete, even with the cast iron bracket that holds it in.
 
(quoted from post at 23:41:43 01/30/18)
(quoted from post at 22:02:38 01/30/18)
(quoted from post at 17:52:56 01/30/18)
(quoted from post at 20:42:24 01/30/18)
Pointed end toward the radiator on that new style. At least the ones I've used. Softening the hose in hot, soapy water may make it a little easier to install.

Right, Thanks Again! I'll post an update in closing after she's up and running, hopefully with 2 thumbs up! Next task, replace the seal in the PTO, which drips considerably when warm. I'll create a new topic if needed, but will make the effort to research some old threads first
If you still have the 1 1/8 inch shaft, updating to a 1 3/8 with new seals and all is about [b:0ef3b573b0]$100[/b:0ef3b573b0]

That's good advice about the shaft. I might add that the new 1 3/8" shaft comes complete. All you need to do is shove it in the hole and tighten the four bolts.

Wait, so if I am understanding you correctly....4 bolts, out comes old shaft with bad seal, and the new 1 3/8" shaft bolts right up...easy peasy?
Other than draining the oil and the four bolt gasket, yes.
My shafts came with the 4 bolt casting and gasket too.
If they didn't have a gasket, I'd simply make my own out of gasket material.

There are the occasional twisted shafts that won't come out, but
that's an issue whether changing shafts or just changing seals.

Align the new shaft correctly with the pump and coupler, don't
force it. Same deal if you were to put the original back in place.

The 1 3/8 shaft has the added benefit of using a push button, lock
on PTO shaft coupler. No bolt/pin through a hole like the old one.
 
Nice! Doesn't get much easier than that. And would that be the Ford 8N PTO Shaft Conversion Assembly here on YT? There is an ORC on the tractor now, which...you guessed it, is covered in grease. The output appears to be 1-3/8" but it could be a converter. If I remember correctly (I changed one on a friends 9N last year) the shear pin is beneath the grease fitting?
 
Yep. I included a link to it. The $100 bolded link.
The roll pin is under the grease fittings on an ORC for a 1 1/8
ORC that adapts to a 1 3/8 PTO shaft. Take a look around and
you can find the ORC's that use a push button quick release that
are 1 3/8 to 1 3/8 and can be taken off with the push of a button.
No grease fitting removal, no hammer and punch, no tools at all.
I still recommend using an ORC if you're using a rotary mower.
Regardless of PTO shaft size.
 
Absolutely on the ORC, I wouldn't run a mower implement without one on this machine. Sorry I missed the link. Seeing as there are fittings on my present ORC I'm guessing its a converter. I'll find out tomorrow. Thank You Both
 
(quoted from post at 21:18:41 01/30/18) Absolutely on the ORC, I wouldn't run a mower implement without one on this machine. Sorry I missed the link. Seeing as there are fittings on my present ORC I'm guessing its a converter. I'll find out tomorrow. Thank You Both

One thing I forgot. My new shaft which I got right here at YT even came with a PTO cap on it. The push button ORC's are great. When you're done with mowing, you can just pull off the ORC and put the PTO shaft cap on it to keep both the ORC and the PTO shaft out of the weather.
 

my guess is that they all come with that cap. i know mine did. the cap is needed because the 1 3/8" PTO sticks out of the tractor a bit farther - enough that the original PTO cap won't fit.
 
Well, she runs again! I set the points at .15 and timed it per the manuals instructions, but it required a shot of ether through a spark plug hole to get it to start each time, even when warm, until I tweaked the timing a little. After a couple timing tweaks and a slight carb adjustment the engine smoothed out considerably and now starts on its own, but still requires several cranks to fire up. I'm also hearing a few POPS out of the exhaust pipe, which as I recall was not there before. This is all with a makeshift small engine fuel tank strapped to the dash and the old carb (the new one is due Saturday).

No apparent coolant leaks yet. I filled, brought to temperature and flushed the system twice before a final filling with a 50/50 mix of coolant and distilled water. Wish I could say the same about no oil leaks. So far I have found two minor ? leaks. One from the oil pan bolt right behind the governor (which appears to be tight) and the other nearby the timing cover bolt right behind/above the distributor. The good news, all the oil lines look to be well sealed.

And with the rebuilt generator, a new resister plate (which was all but falling apart), and new terminals on all the wire ends that were questionable, the charging system looks to be working as well.

In regards to the PTO...I think the seal is bad..,what do you think? :roll: It is a 1-1/8" shaft so I shall be ordering the 1-3/8" conversion shaft from here.

I'll be putting the hood back on Saturday followed by rewiring the lights and installing the new carburetor.....just in time for the next snow system to arrive.

Any tips on fine tuning?
 
'In regards to the PTO...I think the seal is bad..,what do you think?'

Not a bad leak. Rather, a small leak that wasn't fixed right away.
I think you'll do well with the new shaft and seal.

"Any tips on fine tuning?"

Run it and work it for a while, getting it good and hot.
An engine that has sat around, was ran infrequently and/or was
ran for short periods of time can have sticky valves, deposits, etc.
that will sometimes work themselves out with regular use.

One of my Farmalls has a stuck valve every spring.
None of my Fords do, nor any of my other Farmalls, just this
one. The only thing we do with it is take it to shows.
Once I tap it loose, it will run fine all year until it sets again. :roll:

9980.jpg


9981.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 18:21:41 02/01/18) Oops, forgot the photo...
9976.jpg

Yes it looks like the seal is leaking. Even if it wasn't, after all you've already done, I'd still update to the 1 3/8" shaft as you plan to do.
 
TY Both! Going to order the shaft now.

Royse, that's a very nice Cub...what year? I have a couple friends (who are actually twins) who each own one, but they look slightly different...the seat configuration mainly as I recall. One of them actually owns several Farmalls and even had his Club Car golf cart painted and decal'ed to look like a Farmall.
 
Thanks Cary. It is the first tractor I bought for myself.
That was a few days ago, and it has earned it's keep.
Some would be surprised how much work these little guys can do.

It came with a front blade which can also be mounted as a belly
blade for dozing/grading, a 5 foot belly mower, single bottom
moldboard plow, wheel weights, chains and of course, hydraulics.
Now that it's only used for shows, I didn't put the weights or the
hydraulics back on it.

Trivia - I "think" the cub is the only Farmall with a flathead engine
other than the very early F-12's with a Waukesha flathead.
Every other one I have, earlier and later, are valve in head engines.

9982.jpg
 
They did change in looks over the years.
Square hoods, yellow and white paint, etc.
Mine is a 1948.
 
They did change in looks over the years.
Square hoods, yellow and white paint, etc.
Mine is a 1948.

Hey Royse, ran into the twins yesterday. Joe's Cub is a 47 and Jerry's is a 48. Guess my memory on the seat looking different was wrong because I showed them your and Jerry said it's the same as his.

Ok so, before I get into where I'm at I feel the need to come clean on my distributor mishap in case it plays a part in the final adjustment issues I am dealing with (and also so I can sleep at night). I could give you some lame explanation as to how it happened, but whats the point. The short version is this...in an attempt to replace the flippin' $3 broken cap retaining clip that the tractor came with I managed to break the fragile pin guide while trying to remove the brass pin. So go ahead... :roll: I deserve it. Point is, after all the guidance I received to rebuild the old one I now have a new distributor, which of course came with crap points, so I put the Enchin points in their place (I left the condenser that came with the new distributor in play).

OK, now that my conscience is clear....The hood and new carburetor are in place and I've got it running. Even after bleeding the fuel system by opening the drain screw on the bottom of the carb she still required a shot of go juice to fire up (and several times after that initially), but now seems to be starting on her own (most of the time). It appears to start best whit the throttle low, which is where I tend to always shut any engine off...at idle.

Anywho, I am now attempting to adjust the carb (hoping the timing is correct). It definitely appears to be running smoother than it did with the old carb, but it is still popping out the exhaust every few seconds, especially at idle (which is not near as much as before). Here's the thing....the popping all but disappears at idle when I turn the idle mixture screw ALL the way in, but when I bring it out, even just 1/8 turn it starts to pop again. I would think it would stall right out with the idle mix screw in all the way, should it not?

So like that, as suggested in an effort to see if perhaps there were a sticky valve I took er' for a spin around the field and initially it seemed to do ok but it wasn't long before the governor started to waver the engine speed to the point where it sounded like it was going to leave me stranded so I headed back to the garage, which is up hill. That's where it really got erratic but I made it in. In other words it seems to run decent at idle and higher RPM with no load, but not so much once a load is in play and even worse going up hill.

Having said that I've been looking around the forum in an effort to find carb adjustment advice, but if you have any other input that I might be missing in regards to what I am experiencing it would be appreciated.

I feel I'm close, but no cigar just yet.
 
And just to clarify, there's a new screen at the carb inlet and a new gasket and screen above the sediment bowl. I did not drop the entire assembly to check that screen, but the tank appears to be visually clean by looking through the cap, as was the fuel I siphoned from the tank when I started all this. The tank now has fresh fuel which flows well from the carbs drain plug.
 
"The tank now has fresh fuel which flows well from the carbs drain plug."

That's a good test. Will it fill a pint jar in 2 minutes or close?
Does it run fairly steadily and not taper off to a dribble?
If so, that's a good sign.

Your governor will hunt, revving up and down if your carb is
running lean. I suspect that may be the case based on your
stated adjustment of the idle mixture. That adjusts air, so all
the way in is as rich as it can get. Turning it out lets more air in.

As far as breaking something trying - the only way to not make
a mistake is to not do anything. Which is a mistake in itself.

Reminds me of the liar's paradox.
"The following statement is true. The previous statement was false."

Anyway, where do you have your carb adjustments set now?
I usually start with the main screw out 1 and 1/2 full turn and
the idle adjustment out 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Will it rev up to full
speed without stumbling at this point? If not, open the main
another 1/4 turn. If it will now, then with it running at full speed
turn the main in until you notice a change in speed. Then back
it out 1/8 turn. If you've got it backed out more than 2 or maybe
2 and 1/2 turns, take the carb apart and fix it. It's not right.

Once you have that done, slow it down, rev it back up.
Will it still rev without stumbling? Good.

Idle it down to &lt;500 RPM. 400 ~ 450 is better.
Now you can adjust the idle mixture for best idle mix.
If you have to change it too much, you may have to readjust the
main adjustment too. Probably will take several repeats.

All adjustments should be done with the engine and carb at
normal operating temperature.

Now that I said all that, I can't remember, did you check to
make sure you have good quality spark at all four plugs?
Check while it's hot and acting up on you.
 
Yeah, not one of my prouder moments.

I didn't check all plugs, just one initially to confirm I had spark before I put fuel in the test tank. That being said, one thing I did not do was check the plug gaps before putting them in but rather just glanced at them to see that there was a consistent gap on all. I was considering taking them out and recheck. Even contemplated taking the distributor off and confirm the points gap was still at .15 just to rule that out.

I don't really have any way to check the actual RPMs, was just going by ear. I did start with the adjustments that you recommend, (which is the same thing I read in another thread here), main screw out 1 and 1/2 full turn and the idle adjustment out 1/2 turn. The engine itself (listening up front) sounded smooth but it was still popping from exhaust. The closer I turned the idle screw in the less it popped and if its seated closed it just about stops completely. So the more air it gets the rougher she runs it sounds like. Makes me think its sucking air elsewhere but couldn't understand where from. Sitting stationary, aside from the "pops' (not to wear out that term) it appears to run pretty smooth at all RPMs, and does rev up to full speed, n/p. When dropping the throttle from high RPMs to low quickly it studders briefly, but always did. Going from low to high quickly it responds well...again just sitting in garage with no load.


I'll go out and start it up again and let it run a bit mid throttle to get to temp. Meanwhile I'll print your suggestions/questions out and once warm run through the list and reply back. As you probably know, we're suppose to get 6+ in of white stuff tonight/tomorrow so was hoping to use that as a test, not that I am in any hurry to go out and play in it. Too damn cold :shock:
 
"Too damn cold :shock:"

I hear ya! Not as bad today as it was yesterday, but yeah. Cold!
I'm kind of looking forward to plowing snow on a weekend though.
Usually I have to do it before I go to work or after I get home.
Makes me run the tractor just long enough to get the job done.
I'd rather run it a lot longer and let it get thoroughly warmed up.

Reminds me, I should get a recent pic of my snow rig(s).
Still using my 3000 and "mini-me". Blowers on opposite ends.

Between the cub and these i used a 2N with a front blade.
That worked very well too. The heat houser didn't provide much
heat, but it blocked the wind which was a HUGE improvement
over the cub and the roof kept snow/rain/sleet off too.

Loader for anything too deep. The canvas heat houser on that
Jubilee would just about roast you out. It was plenty warm.

10105.jpg


10106.jpg


10108.jpg
 
Boy you sure do have acquired the equipment. If I can't get this resolved I may be out here snow blowing my drive with my crafts-man walk behind :cry:

OK, so I have to say it is starting better than ever at this point, at an idle, no choke required at all, where as before I started all this it always needed to be at 1/2 throttle and a brief pull of the choke. It's still running rough tough no matter what I do unless I close the idle screw completely...then it smooths out almost all together.

So starting out at idle 1/2 turn and main 1-1/2 turns it starts well but misses quite a bit. It will rev right up with little stumbling and when I bring the main out say another 1/4 it doesn't stumble much, if at all. But then when I turn the main back in at full throttle it takes almost a full turn to hear any change in speed (missing considerably the whole time) at which point it suddenly sounds like it wants to stall, so I come back out an 1/8 to 1/4 and it will regain speed again. At that point it will come full throttle from an idle pretty smoothly, but again misses quite a bit.

Now if I turn the idle screw in...all the way the missing clears up almost completely. So all that being said, because of the missing (which I was referring to popping), I can't seem to get a consistent adjustment. I'm starting to think there's something askew with the ignition somewhere. But then again based on the fumes lingering around my brain I keep thinking its running 'rich' too :?
 
Wish I had that other carb rebuilt already so I could swap them in an effort to see if that changes anything. Already bought the gallon can of cleaner but there is only so many hours in a day. Oh, and I discovered another oil leak. The brass fitting where the pressure gauge and the oil filter inlet line splits is leaking more than I'm comfortable with right at the threads going into the block, so I must have tweaked it when I changed the lines...UGH. Guess I'll be taking that out and putting some sealant on the threads like I did all the line threads. Wondering if I did the same with the one pan bolt if that would seal that up as well.
 
The neighbor behind me (drive next door) has one of these. He does his 1000 ft+ driveway with 2 swipes in no time! All the while being in an enclosed cab probably sipping on a barley soda.

 
And one more thing (wish I could edit my previous posts) I noticed that the missing seems to increase as the engine gets to temp, if that is any indication.
 
"Wish I had that other carb rebuilt already so I could swap them in an effort to see if that changes anything"

If you feel like making the drive, we can put your carb on my 8N.
The one I just rebuilt the engine for. It's in my heated garage still.
And/or you can take one of mine home and try it on yours.
I'm about two hours away from Lapeer.

Are you sure your manifold/carb are sealed well?
The only time I've seen the idle mixture screw on a M/S carb for
an N really effect high speed running is when I had an air leak.
 
(quoted from post at 19:58:39 02/03/18) "Wish I had that other carb rebuilt already so I could swap them in an effort to see if that changes anything"

If you feel like making the drive, we can put your carb on my 8N.
The one I just rebuilt the engine for. It's in my heated garage still.
And/or you can take one of mine home and try it on yours.
I'm about two hours away from Lapeer.

[color=red:46a835032f][b:46a835032f]Are you sure your manifold/carb are sealed well?
The only time I've seen the idle mixture screw on a M/S carb for
an N really effect high speed running is when I had an air leak.[/b:46a835032f][/color:46a835032f]

Couldn't that be solved by holding an unlit propane torch up to those areas and see if it affects the RPM by sucking in the propane?[/b]
 
(quoted from post at 23:18:14 02/03/18)
(quoted from post at 19:58:39 02/03/18) "Wish I had that other carb rebuilt already so I could swap them in an effort to see if that changes anything"

If you feel like making the drive, we can put your carb on my 8N.
The one I just rebuilt the engine for. It's in my heated garage still.
And/or you can take one of mine home and try it on yours.
I'm about two hours away from Lapeer.

[color=red:a7c6a8aa30][b:a7c6a8aa30]Are you sure your manifold/carb are sealed well?
The only time I've seen the idle mixture screw on a M/S carb for
an N really effect high speed running is when I had an air leak.[/b:a7c6a8aa30][/color:a7c6a8aa30]

Couldn't that be solved by holding an unlit propane torch up to those areas and see if it affects the RPM by sucking in the propane?[/b]
That would certainly help prove whether it was an issue or not.
 
If you feel like making the drive, we can put your carb on my 8N.
The one I just rebuilt the engine for. It's in my heated garage still.
And/or you can take one of mine home and try it on yours.
I'm about two hours away from Lapeer.

Are you sure your manifold/carb are sealed well?
The only time I've seen the idle mixture screw on a M/S carb for
an N really effect high speed running is when I had an air leak.

Couldn't that be solved by holding an unlit propane torch up to those areas and see if it affects the RPM by sucking in the propane?

Well that would explain why I can close the idle screw and it still runs. I just checked the carb bolts and they seem tight. I guess I could start it up in the AM and spray carb cleaner around the gaskets and see what it does. I never thought to use propane. I did not touch the manifold out of fear I was going to break off a stud so it should still be sealed, if it was before I started. I didn't seem to have this problem before. Well, now that you bring it up is was increasingly backfiring just before I tore it down. Oh man what did I get myself into? LOL

That is a very generous offer, Royse. I appreciate it, and the fact that you are spending a part of your Saturday evening to help me out as well. I've already made 3 trips out to Lennon this week to get parts trying to finish this thing up, whats another trip?
 
(quoted from post at 23:27:53 02/03/18)
If you feel like making the drive, we can put your carb on my 8N.
The one I just rebuilt the engine for. It's in my heated garage still.
And/or you can take one of mine home and try it on yours.
I'm about two hours away from Lapeer.

Are you sure your manifold/carb are sealed well?
The only time I've seen the idle mixture screw on a M/S carb for
an N really effect high speed running is when I had an air leak.

Couldn't that be solved by holding an unlit propane torch up to those areas and see if it affects the RPM by sucking in the propane?

Well that would explain why I can close the idle screw and it still runs. I just checked the carb bolts and they seem tight. I guess I could start it up in the AM and spray carb cleaner around the gaskets and see what it does. I never thought to use propane. I did not touch the manifold out of fear I was going to break off a stud so it should still be sealed, if it was before I started. I didn't seem to have this problem before. Well, now that you bring it up is was increasingly backfiring just before I tore it down. Oh man what did I get myself into? LOL

That is a very generous offer, Royse. I appreciate it, and the fact that you are spending a part of your Saturday evening to help me out as well. I've already made 3 trips out to Lennon this week to get parts trying to finish this thing up, whats another trip?
I just sent you an email via YT with my address and phone number.
We'll get it figured out.
 
Just wanted to post a brief update. Through the assistance of those of you who chimed in I now have the 9/8N back up and running again. After having the generator rebuilt, replacing the resister plate, and reworking the wiring harness the 6 volt charging system appears to be working well. When replacing all the oil lines and I rerouting the line going to the governor I decided to go ahead and use the spin-on oil filter adapter after all. There are a couple pre-existing gasket oil leaks, but I expected this and now that the front half is clean I can see the areas that need to be addressed. The cooling system appears to be tight, and after a bit of carburetor and ignition system juggling I was able to work out most of the bugs in the fuel and ignition system to the point where I got er running well enough to plow the driveway a couple times this weekend. It actually starts and runs pretty smooth considering and I'm confident that it's ready for the next few days of accumulation knocking on the door.

She still needs a few tweaks here and there, but all in all I feel I am well on the way to having a decent work horse for the property. I have a new PTO assembly on the way which I will be replacing once this upcoming weather system passes, and come spring I will be addressing the poor brakes/seals too. It's good to know that should I need help with these (and I'm sure I will), guidance can be found here. Thanks for all the generous wisdom 8)
 
(quoted from post at 19:17:16 02/06/18) Just wanted to post a brief update. Through the assistance of those of you who chimed in I now have the 9/8N back up and running again. After having the generator rebuilt, replacing the resister plate, and reworking the wiring harness the 6 volt charging system appears to be working well. When replacing all the oil lines and I rerouting the line going to the governor I decided to go ahead and use the spin-on oil filter adapter after all. There are a couple pre-existing gasket oil leaks, but I expected this and now that the front half is clean I can see the areas that need to be addressed. The cooling system appears to be tight, and after a bit of carburetor and ignition system juggling I was able to work out most of the bugs in the fuel and ignition system to the point where I got er running well enough to plow the driveway a couple times this weekend. It actually starts and runs pretty smooth considering and I'm confident that it's ready for the next few days of accumulation knocking on the door.

She still needs a few tweaks here and there, but all in all I feel I am well on the way to having a decent work horse for the property. I have a new PTO assembly on the way which I will be replacing once this upcoming weather system passes, and come spring I will be addressing the poor brakes/seals too. It's good to know that should I need help with these (and I'm sure I will), guidance can be found here. Thanks for all the generous wisdom 8)

Thanks for the success story. It's always good to hear them. :wink:
 

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