Ford 9N lighting kit

Hi all,

New member here with a '39 Ford 9N that I purchased recently. I'm new to tractors but I've been turning wrenches my whole life so I definitely appreciate the simplicity of the N series. As you can see from the picture this is still a 6V system and came with a new battery installed when I bought it. At some point I'd like to add an original style lighting kit with 2 headlights, a taillight and a work light all at once. From the research I've done it looks like the charging system doesn't have enough power to run 2 headlights, a taillight and a worklight. From what I've read the max generator output is 11.5 amps and the ignition system draws 2 amps. This leaves 9.5 amps available for lights. P=I*E so 9.5A*7.5V = 71.25 watts. I believe the 2 headlights and worklight are 30 watts each and the taillight is 3 watts which would be 93 watts. I looks like the generator simply doesn't have enough power to run all the lights at the same time.

My question is, am I missing something? If anyone is running a similar light setup with a 6 volt system do you have any issues if you run all the lights at the same time?

9634.jpg
 
My 47 2n has lites and a work lite works just fine don't believe the hype you need a 12 volt system😢

<image src="http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto9638.jpg"/>
 
(quoted from post at 12:09:06 01/26/18) Hi all,

New member here with a '39 Ford 9N that I purchased recently. I'm new to tractors but I've been turning wrenches my whole life so I definitely appreciate the simplicity of the N series. As you can see from the picture this is still a 6V system and came with a new battery installed when I bought it. At some point I'd like to add an original style lighting kit with 2 headlights, a taillight and a work light all at once. From the research I've done it looks like the charging system doesn't have enough power to run 2 headlights, a taillight and a worklight. From what I've read the max generator output is 11.5 amps and the ignition system draws 2 amps. This leaves 9.5 amps available for lights. P=I*E so 9.5A*7.5V = 71.25 watts. I believe the 2 headlights and worklight are 30 watts each and the taillight is 3 watts which would be 93 watts. I looks like the generator simply doesn't have enough power to run all the lights at the same time.

My question is, am I missing something? If anyone is running a similar light setup with a 6 volt system do you have any issues if you run all the lights at the same time?

9634.jpg
riginal headlamps were 32CP (24 Watts) and you only need the work lamp on for a few moments now &amp; then for mounting eqmt &amp; perhaps an occasional monitoring of work. Should be OK.. Ford went to the higher output 11.5 ampere generator (up from 7) just for the purpose of accommodating lights, so if you stick with original Wattage lamps you should be fine.
 
My early 48 8n 6 volt has headlights and a tail light but no work light as others have said you wouldn't have the work light on that much anyway.
a254896.jpg
 
[/quote]

Thanks, I didn't realize they were different on the originals. Were they sealed beam PAR 46 back then or more like this:

s-l300.jpg


I do know that I have the 11.5 amp "C" generator.
 
HiYa Doublebass-
Are you a musician? First let me say that you have a very nice 9N Tractor. The original Ford 9N Lighting Kits contained two headlights made by CM HALL LAMP CO; DETROIT, MI; using the bulb and reflector as sealed beams were not yet invented. These were the big truck like lamps. Also included were the two headlight medallions (wings) and backing plates, a TAURUS taillight, two fender brackets, a license plate bracket, a light switch and fuse, and the wiring with clips. There was no Implement Lamp (worklight) yet. Those did not come out until 1949. The early 9Nlighting kits stated that if you wanted a worklight, you were to take the RH headlight and mount it in the RH rear fender bracket. It was legal to only use one headlight but it had to be mounted on the left side. Next, with the first 9N generator, the 9N-10000-A, a two-wire/two brush unit, it used a special rectangular voltage regulator -see picture below. Output was rated at 7 volts. The next generator, the 9N-10000-B was about the same only now it was a one-wire/three brush unit, used the new roundcan cutout instead of the VR, and had a 3rd Brush 'HI-LO' selector button on the rear plate. This was an attempt to allow use of the lights without discharging the battery by sliding into the HI position and back into the LO position when lights were not used. Both of those generators are the small barrel style that are hard to find. The early VR is even more rare. The 9N-10000-C generator came along with the 11.5 volt amp output. It was still one-wire/three brushes only now the 3rd brush was adjusted by a potentiometer-type screw on the back plate. It used the cutout as well. Ford had charging issues in those early years and there were 4 different pulleys to try and get the problem fixed with the A and B gennys. None worked well. I wrote a lengthy paper on the early 9N generators and it is posted on the other Ford N-Series Tractor Club site along with an article on the CM HALL lamps. Email me if you don't have the url as they won't let me post it here.

Now, looking at your 9N, I am just going to mention a few facts that I see with yours that make it non-39 original. You don't say what the serial number is so lets start there to be sure it is a'39. I see smooth rear hubs, but that is all I can tell. I think you have the hat rims but cannot tell if 32" or 28". The grille is the later style, so unless it was retrofitted, another sign it is not a '39. the original '39 grille was aluminum with horizontal bars. The '39 radiator was the large topped style, non-pressurized, using a chrome STANT cap. Your black cap tells me you probably have the pressurized radiator. ALL FORD tractors never came with a grille guard/bumper from the factory, always dealer optional accessories, but the one you have was the 8N style, and is an aftermarket one. What is that decal on the lower RH dogleg? Are the doglegs smooth? I don't see any headlight punch-outs but can't really tell. Early 9N smooth doglegs didn't have them so you may be OK. Early 9Ns had the 4-spoke steering wheel with chrome center hub, double ribbed fenders, aluminum dash and steering box, starter button on the LH dash, key switch on RH dash, snap-in battery door, ignition 'ON' red lamp near ammeter, muffler shield, cast iron governor with no oil line, and many more identifiers. Have you been to John Smiths site www.8nford.com? Not nit-picking, understand? Just saying if you are trying to keep it all original, first confirm serial number.

Early 9N-10505 Voltage Regulator, used only with the 1st early 9N small generator. This one is mounted upside down though -terminals should be facing downward:
QxZO02hl.jpg

EARLY 9N DASH:
E7DH0oxl.jpg


Tim Daley(MI)
 
Here is a LINK to a site from a guy who use to post along time ago, 'Truck' who put together all the info on the CM HALL headlights used on the 9N and 2N up until about 1943 when the sealed beam style was released. If you need an original TAURUS taillight, email me as I have a few extras to sell...

Tim Daley(MI)
CM HALL HEADLIGHTS
 
Bear in mind that no N-Series Tractor ever came from the factory with lights installed or a bumper for that matter. Those items were dealer optional accessories. Also, by the 8N Model, the generator was now at 20 amperes output. Lighting kits included two headlights and the taillight with a license plate bracket. Taillight was to be mounted on LH rear fender -it was the law in most states -if tractor was to be used on main thoroughfares (highways). You also would have your license plate secured to the plat bracket on the back of the taillight as well, although many states did not require tractors to be registered. I have an original MICHIGAN FARM plate on my early '48 8N just cuz it's cool...


zxAsuE9l.jpg

l4hqAa0l.jpg

5ocGG4Xl.jpg

Tim Daley(MI)
 
(quoted from post at 14:35:42 01/26/18) HiYa Doublebass-
Are you a musician? First let me say that you have a very nice 9N Tractor. The original Ford 9N Lighting Kits contained two headlights made by CM HALL LAMP CO; DETROIT, MI; using the bulb and reflector as sealed beams were not yet invented. These were the big truck like lamps. Also included were the two headlight medallions (wings) and backing plates, a TAURUS taillight, two fender brackets, a license plate bracket, a light switch and fuse, and the wiring with clips. There was no Implement Lamp (worklight) yet. Those did not come out until 1949. The early 9Nlighting kits stated that if you wanted a worklight, you were to take the RH headlight and mount it in the RH rear fender bracket. It was legal to only use one headlight but it had to be mounted on the left side. Next, with the first 9N generator, the 9N-10000-A, a two-wire/two brush unit, it used a special rectangular voltage regulator -see picture below. Output was rated at 7 volts. The next generator, the 9N-10000-B was about the same only now it was a one-wire/three brush unit, used the new roundcan cutout instead of the VR, and had a 3rd Brush 'HI-LO' selector button on the rear plate. This was an attempt to allow use of the lights without discharging the battery by sliding into the HI position and back into the LO position when lights were not used. Both of those generators are the small barrel style that are hard to find. The early VR is even more rare. The 9N-10000-C generator came along with the 11.5 volt amp output. It was still one-wire/three brushes only now the 3rd brush was adjusted by a potentiometer-type screw on the back plate. It used the cutout as well. Ford had charging issues in those early years and there were 4 different pulleys to try and get the problem fixed with the A and B gennys. None worked well. I wrote a lengthy paper on the early 9N generators and it is posted on the other Ford N-Series Tractor Club site along with an article on the CM HALL lamps. Email me if you don't have the url as they won't let me post it here.

Now, looking at your 9N, I am just going to mention a few facts that I see with yours that make it non-39 original. You don't say what the serial number is so lets start there to be sure it is a'39. I see smooth rear hubs, but that is all I can tell. I think you have the hat rims but cannot tell if 32" or 28". The grille is the later style, so unless it was retrofitted, another sign it is not a '39. the original '39 grille was aluminum with horizontal bars. The '39 radiator was the large topped style, non-pressurized, using a chrome STANT cap. Your black cap tells me you probably have the pressurized radiator. ALL FORD tractors never came with a grille guard/bumper from the factory, always dealer optional accessories, but the one you have was the 8N style, and is an aftermarket one. What is that decal on the lower RH dogleg? Are the doglegs smooth? I don't see any headlight punch-outs but can't really tell. Early 9N smooth doglegs didn't have them so you may be OK. Early 9Ns had the 4-spoke steering wheel with chrome center hub, double ribbed fenders, aluminum dash and steering box, starter button on the LH dash, key switch on RH dash, snap-in battery door, ignition 'ON' red lamp near ammeter, muffler shield, cast iron governor with no oil line, and many more identifiers. Have you been to John Smiths site www.8nford.com? Not nit-picking, understand? Just saying if you are trying to keep it all original, first confirm serial number.

Early 9N-10505 Voltage Regulator, used only with the 1st early 9N small generator. This one is mounted upside down though -terminals should be facing downward:
&lt;center&gt;&lt;img src="https://i.imgur.com/QxZO02hl.jpg"&gt;&lt;/center&gt;

EARLY 9N DASH:
&lt;center&gt;&lt;img src="https://i.imgur.com/E7DH0oxl.jpg"&gt;&lt;/center&gt;


Tim Daley(MI)

Thanks and yes I'm a hobby musician. Over the years I've mostly played jazz with a little rock and bluegrass thrown in at times. Both the upright (doublebass) and fretless electric.

I've read your excellent write up, that was actually how I determined that I have the 9N-10000-C generator. I'll check the serial number later when I get home but I know it's a 4 digit and starts with 9 so 9XXX which I understand is a late '39 serial number from what I've seen. There are definitely some non-original items on the tractor such as running boards and the aftermarket bumper as you mentioned. The rims are 28", I believe they are loop rims. It definitely has smooth hubs.

The decal on the dogleg is from the guy who repainted it, the guy I bought it from had it repainted and some work done to it but he didn't know that much about it otherwise. The radiator is definitely aftermarket. The hood does have the headlight punch outs. It doesn't have the dash that you posted so it's definitely not an early '39. I've checked out 8Nford, I actually got a lot of info from there too.

I bought the tractor to be a working girl, one of the things I'll be using it for is running a pull type PTO driven snowblower for clearing my driveway and the small private road I live on. I knew everything wasn't original when I bought it so I'm mostly trying to just keep it looking somewhat period correct although I've added a ROPS to it since that picture was taken, my driveway is somewhat steep in spots and ices up bad every year so I'd rather not take any chances with a rollover. A guy down the road from me died a couple years ago when his Kubota rolled on top of him (his ROPS was folded down and he wasn't wearing his seatbelt). I put some duo grip v-bar chains on it for the ice.

Thanks for your detailed explanations.
 
(quoted from post at 15:02:20 01/26/18) Bear in mind that no N-Series Tractor ever came from the factory with lights installed or a bumper for that matter. Those items were dealer optional accessories. Also, by the 8N Model, the generator was now at 20 amperes output. Lighting kits included two headlights and the taillight with a license plate bracket. Taillight was to be mounted on LH rear fender -it was the law in most states -if tractor was to be used on main thoroughfares (highways). You also would have your license plate secured to the plat bracket on the back of the taillight as well, although many states did not require tractors to be registered. I have an original MICHIGAN FARM plate on my early '48 8N just cuz it's cool...


&lt;center&gt;&lt;img src="https://i.imgur.com/zxAsuE9l.jpg"&gt;&lt;/center&gt;

&lt;center&gt;&lt;img src="https://i.imgur.com/l4hqAa0l.jpg"&gt;&lt;/center&gt;

&lt;center&gt;&lt;img src="https://i.imgur.com/5ocGG4Xl.jpg"&gt;&lt;/center&gt;

Tim Daley(MI)

That's a nice looking 8N Tim.
 
This is one of my 1939 9Ns. It has CM Hall headlights and a Taurus rear light (not shown in this photo). It does not have a rear work light.
It has the 'small' B generator. That generator will keep the battery charged when running but if the lights are on the is a negative
discharge. I don't use this tractor, it is for show only. If you plan on using your tractor you should put a 'C; generator on it. I have a
1940 9N with CM Hall lights and a 'C' generator and it works fine.

That is a nice looking tractor you have.
39-9N-002-1.jpg
 
No help here. Just a question.
Why do you need so many lights?
My tractors are like chickens.
They go into the coop when it starts getting
dark.
In fact, in nearly 20 years of driving them
I've never once needed lights.
 
(quoted from post at 17:08:34 01/26/18) No help here. Just a question.
Why do you need so many lights?
My tractors are like chickens.
They go into the coop when it starts getting
dark.
In fact, in nearly 20 years of driving them
I've never once needed lights.

Snow removal at night.
 
(quoted from post at 16:12:01 01/26/18) This is one of my 1939 9Ns. It has CM Hall headlights and a Taurus rear light (not shown in this photo). It does not have a rear work light.
It has the 'small' B generator. That generator will keep the battery charged when running but if the lights are on the is a negative
discharge. I don't use this tractor, it is for show only. If you plan on using your tractor you should put a 'C; generator on it. I have a
1940 9N with CM Hall lights and a 'C' generator and it works fine.

That is a nice looking tractor you have.
39-9N-002-1.jpg

Sweet looking tractor, I like the way those CM Hall headlights look.
 
(quoted from post at 17:08:34 01/26/18) No help here. Just a question.
Why do you need so many lights?
My tractors are like chickens.
They go into the coop when it starts getting
dark.
In fact, in nearly 20 years of driving them
I've never once needed lights.

In my case, I have a day job, so I've done a bit of night plowing or driving around picking up bales after dark… the lights sure come in handy in those cases!

es
 
from the looks of your gen it looks like the large one which will put out plenty of power vs. the early small dia.

<image src="http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto9674.jpg"/>
 
(quoted from post at 11:47:13 01/27/18) from the looks of your gen it looks like the large one which will put out plenty of power vs. the early small dia.

&lt;image src="http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto9674.jpg"/&gt;
hat are you using for a VR on that one, grizz?
 
Here's what the early 9N voltage regulator looks like, correctly mounted, on the lower steering box cast bosses. This VR was only used on the early 9N-10000-A generator, a two-wire/two-brush unit. By late 1939 the 9N-10000-B generator was released, a one-wire/three brush unit that now used the round can cutout circuit. There was a dealer supplied kit to install the cutout on the two cast bosses. Essentially it was just a flat piece of steel with two outer bolt holes that secured it to the steering box bosses and two smaller inside tapped holes to secure the cutout to. When the steering box was changed to cast iron, the bosses disappeared.


EARLY 9N VOLTAGE REGULATOR:
ky80hsRl.jpg
nAou8HWl.jpg
NotAgCLl.jpg

As I mentioned below, the early VR used a B-Circuit design. When Ford released the NAA (Jubilee) Model in late 1952, it also used the B-Circuit design. The NAA-10505 VR will also work on the early 9N using the early 9N-10000-A generator but you will have to make a mounting bracket yourself as the bolt patterns are not the same. When the round-can cutout was issued with the 9N-10000-B generator, it used the A-Circuit design. Ditto for the 8N Auto-Lite Voltage Regulators. The 9N-10000-B generator had one wire and three brushes. The third brush was adjusted with a 'HI-LO' button on the back plate. It was recommended in the owners manual to set the button to the "HI" setting only when running the headlights, then setting to the "LO" setting when the lights were not in use so you didn't overcharge the battery. The charging system on the early N's was problematic. When the 9N was first conceived, designed, and put into production, engineers did not think about night time operation since no one did it then anyway and hence they did not have lighting kits. As popularity increased and sales with it, more and more farmers now realized with lights they could work well into the night and even in the pre-dawn hours. The first years of the 9N had engineering changes flying left and right and Ford did its best to help keep up with the demands of their customers. Thus by the end of 1939 lighting kits were offered as dealer supplied optional accessories. In my research I have concluded the reason why these early generators and charging systems had so many problems is mainly two-fold. the Ford Engineering team deduced that they needed a new generator for the tractor, using a more robust, HD unit that could withstand the elements as it would be exposed. Ford already had generators, VR's, and even round-can cutout circuits in use on other modules so why not use one of those? there is a photo of an early 9N Prototype with an automotive generator on it, having the round-can cutout mounted on the top barrel. they must have had some issues with that design but eventually settled on using a modified voltage regulator that was used on the 1938 Ford DeLuxe car. The second problem was that the Ford-Ferguosn9N generator had no means to keep the fan belt tight and thus the loss of tension would cause poor to no charging of the battery. The early generators only had one bolt securing it to the engine,the pivot/mounting bolt. Many farmers got stranded out in their fields by the late afternoon/early evening due to this problem. It took Ford a few years to realize this, and came up with a generator tensioning bracket kit that allowed one to keep the belt tension at a set position. The kit had two pieces -one attached to the front head studs and the other threaded rod fed into it from a band attached around the generator barrel. This tensioner was only good for the 9N-10000-C unit -it would not work on the A or B generators. When the Ford 2N-10000 generator was issued, it now had this bracket bolted right to the barrel. The 2N and the 9N-C generators were virtually the same otherwise.

FORD GENERATOR TENSIONING KIT USED ON THE 9N-10000-C GENERATOR:
khxG5iJl.jpg

Tim Daley(MI)
 

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