My 2n won't start

Hi folks, my 2n 6 volt front distributor model will turn over, but will not start and run. It first was just dead, and I cleaned the battery terminals and replaced the cables, then it would turn over, but not catch and run. I took this opportunity to do a tune up, and replaced the points, rotor and condenser, and put in new autolite 437 plugs. It still will not start.

I set the timing with a buzzer multimeter, and did all of the continuity checks listed by Bruce (VA) in many of these posts. I have checked that the condenser is not grounding, the insulators are intact, as are the copper strip, and the coil pigtail. I am getting spark, and I know that the color isn't too important, but it's sometimes blue, sometimes yellow.

I have my battery on a charger, but last time i tried it, my multimeter was showing enough volts that I don't think that's the issue. So, I'm stumped. I know its not a fuel issue, as I checked fuel flow first thing.

Does anyone have any further suggestions? I don't know what else it could be as far as the distributor and coil.
Thank you!
 
What's the voltage at the top of the coil?
Should be battery voltage points open and
about half that points closed.
 
(quoted from post at 19:22:39 11/26/17)

I have my battery on a charger, but last time i tried it, my multimeter was showing enough volts that I don't think that's the issue.

if u connect 5 AAA batteries in series, your multimeter will show, presumably, 7.5 volts. but i'll bet it won't start your tractor ;)

voltage that looks right does not guarantee a good battery. i rarely check a battery with a handheld meter. i've found the behavior of the ammeter on my charger gives me a much better idea of the state a battery is in.
 
HiYa Rawk-
Ok, first, just tossing new parts into the equation isn't going to fix the true root cause, unless you happen to stumble upon the one issue by doing so. How old is the battery? The first thing you need to do is get the battery checked. Your local starter/alternator shop can do this on their bench with special test equipment, and most decent places don't charge for this service. The battery must withstand a charge under load. Simply cleaning off the terminals and replacing cables isn't the answer. You need good HD, thick as your thumb battery cables with a 6-volt system. The smaller cables used on 12 volt systems will not do. Get your copy of Brice(VA)'s 75 Tips for N-Owners and use it as a guide. The original 8N Ford electrical systems were 6-volts/positive ground. They use a generator with a voltage regulator. How is your 6-v battery connected? Once you verify battery is fully charged and good, and wiring is correct, and you are getting a good park, the next thing is fuel. There is simple test to verify fuel is getting the carb. See 75 Tips as well. Explain what you mean by 'setting the timing by buzzer multimeter'. The only way to set the timing on the front mount distributor is to have it on your bench or kitchen table and rebuild it there. Points are set, gapped at .015" -no timing light required, no other method to do this. The distributor timing then is automatically set when you mount it with the offset tang properly inserted on the engine. Missing something else too -what do you mean by checked gap at .015" on all four lobes? Do the basic tests for spark (you say you have one)after you get a good battery. Charging a battery is not just going to guarantee it is good. It isn't the VOLTS, its the AMPS that are required when cranking over these engines. You can take a 6-volt dry cell battery, four D size batteries, 4 AA batteries, or 4 AAA batteries and have 6-volts, but none will crank your engine because they do not have the proper amount of AMPS to do so. Once spark is determined to be good, the next step is to check for fuel flow. The quickest way is to take an empty container like a coffee can and place underneath the carb. With the engine COLD, loosen the drain plug on the bottom of the carb, open the Fuel Sediment Bulb Valve 2 full turns, and observe if you have sufficient fuel flow. If none or stops and starts, there's the probable problem. I prefer to check a bit differently. Instead of loosening the carb drain plug, I loosen the fuel line at the carb brass elbow inlet and slip off to the side aiming it down into the coffee can. Then open the valve 2 turns and observe if gas flows at a nice, almost pencil thick steady stream uninterrupted. hesitation, stopping, starting weak streams all indicate sediment bulb has plugged screens. Lastly, search out Wiring Pictograms by JMOR and download a copy. It has all the correct ways to wire these old N's whether 6-volt or 12-volt. Lastly, if you need help rebuilding your distributor, feel free to contact me as I do these all the time as well as carbs, water pumps, generators, starters, governors, and the occasional 8-track player... ; > )

Tim Daley(MI)
 
Bruce, my readings were done with 1 probe on the top coil terminal, and the other grounded, meter set to "ACV~" highest reading while bumping the starter was 1.9

Time for a new battery?
 
You are checking for voltage to the coil. Your starter has nothing to do with that.

Do it again.

Turn the key on and check the voltage.

Turn the engine by hand until the points open or close to get 2 readings. Or bump the starter.

See tip # 49 to check the battery.
75 Tips
 
Afraid I don't understand: I was bumping the starter to turn the engine. While the engine turned, switch on (previous owner put in a toggle switch instead of a key), probes at the coil, I got readings that fluctuated between numbers lower than 1 and 1.9. I will try again.
 
Second attempt, but still unsure, meter now set to DC, I had 0 with the switch on, then showed between 5 and 6 while bumping the starter.
 
Second attempt, but still unsure, meter now set to DC, I had 0 with the switch on, then showed between 5 and 6 while bumping the starter.
 
(quoted from post at 10:57:58 11/27/17) HiYa Rawk-
Ok, first, just tossing new parts into the equation isn't going to fix the true root cause, unless you happen to stumble upon the one issue by doing so. How old is the battery? The first thing you need to do is get the battery checked. Your local starter/alternator shop can do this on their bench with special test equipment, and most decent places don't charge for this service. The battery must withstand a charge under load. Simply cleaning off the terminals and replacing cables isn't the answer. You need good HD, thick as your thumb battery cables with a 6-volt system. The smaller cables used on 12 volt systems will not do. Get your copy of Brice(VA)'s 75 Tips for N-Owners and use it as a guide. The original 8N Ford electrical systems were 6-volts/positive ground. They use a generator with a voltage regulator. How is your 6-v battery connected? Once you verify battery is fully charged and good, and wiring is correct, and you are getting a good park, the next thing is fuel. There is simple test to verify fuel is getting the carb. See 75 Tips as well. Explain what you mean by 'setting the timing by buzzer multimeter'. The only way to set the timing on the front mount distributor is to have it on your bench or kitchen table and rebuild it there. Points are set, gapped at .015" -no timing light required, no other method to do this. The distributor timing then is automatically set when you mount it with the offset tang properly inserted on the engine. Missing something else too -what do you mean by checked gap at .015" on all four lobes? Do the basic tests for spark (you say you have one)after you get a good battery. Charging a battery is not just going to guarantee it is good. It isn't the VOLTS, its the AMPS that are required when cranking over these engines. You can take a 6-volt dry cell battery, four D size batteries, 4 AA batteries, or 4 AAA batteries and have 6-volts, but none will crank your engine because they do not have the proper amount of AMPS to do so. Once spark is determined to be good, the next step is to check for fuel flow. The quickest way is to take an empty container like a coffee can and place underneath the carb. With the engine COLD, loosen the drain plug on the bottom of the carb, open the Fuel Sediment Bulb Valve 2 full turns, and observe if you have sufficient fuel flow. If none or stops and starts, there's the probable problem. I prefer to check a bit differently. Instead of loosening the carb drain plug, I loosen the fuel line at the carb brass elbow inlet and slip off to the side aiming it down into the coffee can. Then open the valve 2 turns and observe if gas flows at a nice, almost pencil thick steady stream uninterrupted. hesitation, stopping, starting weak streams all indicate sediment bulb has plugged screens. Lastly, search out Wiring Pictograms by JMOR and download a copy. It has all the correct ways to wire these old N's whether 6-volt or 12-volt. Lastly, if you need help rebuilding your distributor, feel free to contact me as I do these all the time as well as carbs, water pumps, generators, starters, governors, and the occasional 8-track playesuggestions
Tim Daley(MI)

Tim, I have been meaning to respond to your suggestions, and thank you for them. I had the battery checked, and it did have a bad cell. The new battery has not started the tractor however. The cables I replaced were 2 gauge, the same as what I took off, and also what I see offered on this site for a replacement part.

I have spark at the coil and at the plugs, but I have not been able to get meaningful voltage readings on my meter per Bruce's instructions. ( I have read the 75 tips many times over the years since I've had this 2n.) I get a zero reading on the coil wire with the switch on, which of course makes no sense because I can see the spark. When I bump the starter, my readings jump all over, I am obviously doing something incorrectly.

I have a 6volt positive ground system with a generator. I looked all the wiring over today and did not find any short. I have studied the 2n charts and it appears to be correctly wired. I have not had any problems with the tractor since I've had it. Until now of course.

I set the timing on my workbench, with a line scribed on the distributor housing at the appropriate distance from the mounting hole. When the straight edge clipped to the wide side of the shaft lined up with the scribed line, my meter buzzer turned off, telling me the points were open,, and continuity off,, that is what I mean by "setting the timing by buzzer"

I have checked the fuel flow, and that is not the issue.

Thanks again for your input, I am still stumped.
 
(quoted from post at 10:57:58 11/27/17) HiYa Rawk-
Ok, first, just tossing new parts into the equation isn't going to fix the true root cause, unless you happen to stumble upon the one issue by doing so. How old is the battery? The first thing you need to do is get the battery checked. Your local starter/alternator shop can do this on their bench with special test equipment, and most decent places don't charge for this service. The battery must withstand a charge under load. Simply cleaning off the terminals and replacing cables isn't the answer. You need good HD, thick as your thumb battery cables with a 6-volt system. The smaller cables used on 12 volt systems will not do. Get your copy of Brice(VA)'s 75 Tips for N-Owners and use it as a guide. The original 8N Ford electrical systems were 6-volts/positive ground. They use a generator with a voltage regulator. How is your 6-v battery connected? Once you verify battery is fully charged and good, and wiring is correct, and you are getting a good park, the next thing is fuel. There is simple test to verify fuel is getting the carb. See 75 Tips as well. Explain what you mean by 'setting the timing by buzzer multimeter'. The only way to set the timing on the front mount distributor is to have it on your bench or kitchen table and rebuild it there. Points are set, gapped at .015" -no timing light required, no other method to do this. The distributor timing then is automatically set when you mount it with the offset tang properly inserted on the engine. Missing something else too -what do you mean by checked gap at .015" on all four lobes? Do the basic tests for spark (you say you have one)after you get a good battery. Charging a battery is not just going to guarantee it is good. It isn't the VOLTS, its the AMPS that are required when cranking over these engines. You can take a 6-volt dry cell battery, four D size batteries, 4 AA batteries, or 4 AAA batteries and have 6-volts, but none will crank your engine because they do not have the proper amount of AMPS to do so. Once spark is determined to be good, the next step is to check for fuel flow. The quickest way is to take an empty container like a coffee can and place underneath the carb. With the engine COLD, loosen the drain plug on the bottom of the carb, open the Fuel Sediment Bulb Valve 2 full turns, and observe if you have sufficient fuel flow. If none or stops and starts, there's the probable problem. I prefer to check a bit differently. Instead of loosening the carb drain plug, I loosen the fuel line at the carb brass elbow inlet and slip off to the side aiming it down into the coffee can. Then open the valve 2 turns and observe if gas flows at a nice, almost pencil thick steady stream uninterrupted. hesitation, stopping, starting weak streams all indicate sediment bulb has plugged screens. Lastly, search out Wiring Pictograms by JMOR and download a copy. It has all the correct ways to wire these old N's whether 6-volt or 12-volt. Lastly, if you need help rebuilding your distributor, feel free to contact me as I do these all the time as well as carbs, water pumps, generators, starters, governors, and the occasional 8-track playesuggestions
Tim Daley(MI)

Tim, I have been meaning to respond to your suggestions, and thank you for them. I had the battery checked, and it did have a bad cell. The new battery has not started the tractor however. The cables I replaced were 2 gauge, the same as what I took off, and also what I see offered on this site for a replacement part.

I have spark at the coil and at the plugs, but I have not been able to get meaningful voltage readings on my meter per Bruce's instructions. ( I have read the 75 tips many times over the years since I've had this 2n.) I get a zero reading on the coil wire with the switch on, which of course makes no sense because I can see the spark. When I bump the starter, my readings jump all over, I am obviously doing something incorrectly.

I have a 6volt positive ground system with a generator. I looked all the wiring over today and did not find any short. I have studied the 2n charts and it appears to be correctly wired. I have not had any problems with the tractor since I've had it. Until now of course.

I set the timing on my workbench, with a line scribed on the distributor housing at the appropriate distance from the mounting hole. When the straight edge clipped to the wide side of the shaft lined up with the scribed line, my meter buzzer turned off, telling me the points were open,, and continuity off,, that is what I mean by "setting the timing by buzzer"

I have checked the fuel flow, and that is not the issue.

Thanks again for your input, I am still stumped.
 
(quoted from post at 10:57:58 11/27/17) HiYa Rawk-
Ok, first, just tossing new parts into the equation isn't going to fix the true root cause, unless you happen to stumble upon the one issue by doing so. How old is the battery? The first thing you need to do is get the battery checked. Your local starter/alternator shop can do this on their bench with special test equipment, and most decent places don't charge for this service. The battery must withstand a charge under load. Simply cleaning off the terminals and replacing cables isn't the answer. You need good HD, thick as your thumb battery cables with a 6-volt system. The smaller cables used on 12 volt systems will not do. Get your copy of Brice(VA)'s 75 Tips for N-Owners and use it as a guide. The original 8N Ford electrical systems were 6-volts/positive ground. They use a generator with a voltage regulator. How is your 6-v battery connected? Once you verify battery is fully charged and good, and wiring is correct, and you are getting a good park, the next thing is fuel. There is simple test to verify fuel is getting the carb. See 75 Tips as well. Explain what you mean by 'setting the timing by buzzer multimeter'. The only way to set the timing on the front mount distributor is to have it on your bench or kitchen table and rebuild it there. Points are set, gapped at .015" -no timing light required, no other method to do this. The distributor timing then is automatically set when you mount it with the offset tang properly inserted on the engine. Missing something else too -what do you mean by checked gap at .015" on all four lobes? Do the basic tests for spark (you say you have one)after you get a good battery. Charging a battery is not just going to guarantee it is good. It isn't the VOLTS, its the AMPS that are required when cranking over these engines. You can take a 6-volt dry cell battery, four D size batteries, 4 AA batteries, or 4 AAA batteries and have 6-volts, but none will crank your engine because they do not have the proper amount of AMPS to do so. Once spark is determined to be good, the next step is to check for fuel flow. The quickest way is to take an empty container like a coffee can and place underneath the carb. With the engine COLD, loosen the drain plug on the bottom of the carb, open the Fuel Sediment Bulb Valve 2 full turns, and observe if you have sufficient fuel flow. If none or stops and starts, there's the probable problem. I prefer to check a bit differently. Instead of loosening the carb drain plug, I loosen the fuel line at the carb brass elbow inlet and slip off to the side aiming it down into the coffee can. Then open the valve 2 turns and observe if gas flows at a nice, almost pencil thick steady stream uninterrupted. hesitation, stopping, starting weak streams all indicate sediment bulb has plugged screens. Lastly, search out Wiring Pictograms by JMOR and download a copy. It has all the correct ways to wire these old N's whether 6-volt or 12-volt. Lastly, if you need help rebuilding your distributor, feel free to contact me as I do these all the time as well as carbs, water pumps, generators, starters, governors, and the occasional 8-track playesuggestions
Tim Daley(MI)

Tim, I have been meaning to respond to your suggestions, and thank you for them. I had the battery checked, and it did have a bad cell. The new battery has not started the tractor however. The cables I replaced were 2 gauge, the same as what I took off, and also what I see offered on this site for a replacement part.

I have spark at the coil and at the plugs, but I have not been able to get meaningful voltage readings on my meter per Bruce's instructions. ( I have read the 75 tips many times over the years since I've had this 2n.) I get a zero reading on the coil wire with the switch on, which of course makes no sense because I can see the spark. When I bump the starter, my readings jump all over, I am obviously doing something incorrectly.

I have a 6volt positive ground system with a generator. I looked all the wiring over today and did not find any short. I have studied the 2n charts and it appears to be correctly wired. I have not had any problems with the tractor since I've had it. Until now of course.

I set the timing on my workbench, with a line scribed on the distributor housing at the appropriate distance from the mounting hole. When the straight edge clipped to the wide side of the shaft lined up with the scribed line, my meter buzzer turned off, telling me the points were open,, and continuity off,, that is what I mean by "setting the timing by buzzer"

I have checked the fuel flow, and that is not the issue.

Thanks again for your input, I am still stumped.
 
you said:
"I get a zero reading on the coil wire with the switch on, which of course makes no sense because I can see the spark. When I bump the starter, my readings jump all over, I am obviously doing something incorrectly."

Just a thought:
Is it possible you have the wire that goes from the start switch to the ammeter on the wrong terminal? It should be on the same terminal3as the cable to the battery. If it was on the side going to the starter that would give those symptoms.

Also you do not try to read the voltage at the coil with the motor turning. "Bump the starter" means just bump a bit and check again. You want to read voltage with points open, then with points closed

later
deano.
 
(quoted from post at 17:25:45 12/01/17)
[i:d2cc768cfc]Just a thought:
Is it possible you have the wire that goes from the start switch to the ammeter on the wrong terminal? It should be on the same terminal3as the cable to the battery. If it was on the side going to the starter that would give those symptoms.[/i:d2cc768cfc]

my 2N has no terminals on the ammeter to connect anything to, it's the inductive loop setup. the wire to my ignition switch comes from the bottom terminal of the OEM ballast resistor.
 
Start switch, not ignition switch. Has one cable to battery, one cable to starter. Also has a wire from the same terminal as battery cable to (or through) ammeter. Other end of that wire (in case of loop type ammeter) or other wire from ammeter (in case of terminal type ammeter) goes to the terminal on the terminal block which supplies power to ignition switch, lights, and gets power from generator (or alternator as the case may be). If that wire were to be on the starter side of the start switch there would be 0 volts at the coil when ignition switch is on, but spark when cranking.

later
deano
 

ah, gotcha. i saw ammeter followed by terminal and ran with it. i blame the fact that i was starving when i read your post :oops:
 
(quoted from post at 17:23:25 12/01/17) Start switch, not ignition switch. Has one cable to battery, one cable to starter. Also has a wire from the same terminal as battery cable to (or through) ammeter. Other end of that wire (in case of loop type ammeter) or other wire from ammeter (in case of terminal type ammeter) goes to the terminal on the terminal block which supplies power to ignition switch, lights, and gets power from generator (or alternator as the case may be). If that wire were to be on the starter side of the start switch there would be 0 volts at the coil when ignition switch is on, but spark when cranking.

later
deano

Thanks, Deano: you were correct: the wire was on the wrong terminal. It fired right up and ran great. Thanks for the guidance.
 

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