8N hydro problem

I have a 8N don't know the year I bought it as is and am now to the hydro part , I took off the dipstick cover and started it up , lift will not go up , till I took off the arms then it only came up about an inch and stopped and I can push it back down with a finger , so as I said I pulled the cover and started it up with the pto ingaged , I can see the pump working and fluid coming down from the top inside , I know the fluid needs replaced because it is a creamy color and not clear , I suspect water but not sure , does anyone know why the lift will not work ?

" and fluid coming down from the top inside "

That would likely be from a defective lift piston or cylinder. Or both.

Before you start the repair, it would be a wise move to get a jig from Zane Sherman (http://www.bramblett.com/zane/ ) to adjust the internal linkage. And, make a couple of ?guide studs? by cutting the heads off of two 7/16-14 x 3 5/8? bolts. Also, if your lift cylinder rebuild kit has the leather washer, get CNH part number 87051231 which is the neoprene washer for the lift piston instead of the leather one.


The lift cover weighs nearly 100 lbs with the upper lift arms attached, & is very hard to maneuver. An engine hoist is an excellent idea. Remove the seat and spring, disconnect the upper lift arms at the knuckles. Remove the 14 bolts that hold the cover to the housing. (note that there are three different lengths) DO NOT remove the four nuts under the seat! Remove the right side inspection cover so you can remove the control rod tip from the pump intake valve. Lift the back of the cover straight up and slide a piece of wood under the cover to keep the tip of the control rod out of the rocker shaft. Once you are sure the control rod is out of the rocker shaft, you can then remove the cover. Turn the cover upside down, remove the four bolts that hold the cylinder to the cover, & use a little compressed air on the cyclinder to remove the piston. Check the cylinder for excessive scratches, hone if necessary. ( Or just replace the cylinder & don?t worry about honeing it out too much. ) Install a new piston with "0" ring and backing washer in the cylinder. Install the CNH neoprene washer w/ the concave side toward the ?O? ring. At this point, check the cam follower pin & the control rod. If the cam follower pin is worn replace it. Then, if you have a jig, adjust the linkage to specs. The ?shade tree? adjustment was to bend the control arm to compensate for normal wear in the linkage, springs & cam follower pin. If the control rod is bent, remove it & straighten it. (very carefully; they break easily!) Replace the gaskets under the cylinder and bolt it back on the cover. Put the gasket on the tractor (no sealer) and put the guide studs in place. Unless you do this every day or have eyeballs in your finger tips, get some help to guide the tip of the control arm back into the rocker shaft. (this is the point you will wish you had a engine hoist to hold the top cover while the control rod dances around the intake valve arm on the pump!) Align the cover holes up with the housing holes. Remove the guide studs. Tighten cover bolts, connect lift arms install the seat. Re-install the inspection covers with new gaskets.
75 Tips

So do you think the pump itself in the bottom is ok and should I change the fluid ?

(quoted from post at 19:57:31 07/05/17)
So do you think the pump itself in the bottom is ok and should I change the fluid ?

Click to expand...

Regardless of leakage from above you need to verify the control valve is working properly. Your observations suggest a control valve problem in addition to a leakage problem.

TOH

"So do you think the pump itself in the bottom is ok and should I change the fluid ?"

Yes, you should replace the fluid. As you suspect, that's water.
I doubt it is the cause of your current problem though.
I would replace it as part of the repair, not as an attempted "fix".

The 8N holds about 5 gallons of fluid. Rear end, transmission and
hydraulics, all one common sump. Drain and clean all three.
I use UTF that meets Ford M2C134D spec in mine here in Michigan.
Some guys down South prefer heavier/thicker oil.

With all the water that is in the oil the control valve may be stuck. With the PTO turning and the right side inspection plate removed try to push the
long control rod forward to engage the control valve.

Or you may simply have the small "mode" lever under the seat in the "draft" mode. Be sure the lever is up in position mode. Lots of the time the draft
mode does not work because of wear or shock load damage to it's linkage and or adjustment.

Zane

Although Bruce said to remove the seat and spring, you might want to leave the spring attached. Sure it ads a little weight. But when I remove my top cover I had another person to help me and as you can see in the pic below you can add a handle to that spring with a large clamp. My pic shows the seat still attached. But I took that pic after the top cover was back on.

In the other pic you can see how that large "C" clamp also held that cover in a very good position to be worked on. It's clamped to the corner of my work table.

I just remove the cylinder and used air and blew the piston out now my question is this Piston has three metal rings do I have to buy them or can I just use the rubber that came in the gasket set

If your kit has the single o ring and backup ring, they can not be used on piston that is made for steel rings. If the bore is scratched up the best bet would be to get a new piston and cylinder made for the o ring.

that said you can get new rings from this site, hone your cylinder and be good to go. I would never use an oring in a old bore that has been running rings. An o ring really should have a bore that is pretty much a mirror finish. Something that can not be achieved with a normal hone.

I have two 8n's that are running the steel rings and they work just fine.
good luck

(quoted from post at 09:23:43 07/09/17)
I just remove the cylinder and used air and blew the piston out now my question is this Piston has three metal rings do I have to buy them or can I just use the rubber that came in the gasket set

Click to expand...

I ordered the upgrade NAA piston and rings before I ever removed my top cover. Turned out that it already had a NAA piston in it.

I figured I'd order a new cylinder if needed after inspecting my old one but the old one had no problems so I just installed the new piston. Removing a top cover is not something you want to do everyday so I recommend replacing everything that is questionable before replacing it.

(quoted from post at 11:15:21 07/09/17)

(quoted from post at 09:23:43 07/09/17)
I just remove the cylinder and used air and blew the piston out now my question is this Piston has three metal rings do I have to buy them or can I just use the rubber that came in the gasket set

Click to expand...

I ordered the upgrade NAA piston and rings before I ever removed my top cover. Turned out that it already had a NAA piston in it.

I figured I'd order a new cylinder if needed after inspecting my old one but the old one had no problems so I just installed the new piston. Removing a top cover is not something you want to do everyday so I recommend replacing everything that is questionable before replacing it.

Click to expand...

New update ! I now have the tractor up and functioning great ! Motor , tranny and hydro ! But I still have a question , under the tractor on the hydro plate is a plug protruding close to the muffler , is it for a hose to use with a implement? Or what ?

(quoted from post at 17:00:01 08/05/17)

(quoted from post at 11:15:21 07/09/17)

(quoted from post at 09:23:43 07/09/17)
I just remove the cylinder and used air and blew the piston out now my question is this Piston has three metal rings do I have to buy them or can I just use the rubber that came in the gasket set

Click to expand...

I ordered the upgrade NAA piston and rings before I ever removed my top cover. Turned out that it already had a NAA piston in it.

I figured I'd order a new cylinder if needed after inspecting my old one but the old one had no problems so I just installed the new piston. Removing a top cover is not something you want to do everyday so I recommend replacing everything that is questionable before replacing it.

Click to expand...

New update ! I now have the tractor up and functioning great ! Motor , tranny and hydro ! But I still have a question , under the tractor on the hydro plate is a plug protruding close to the muffler , is it for a hose to use with a implement? Or what ?

Click to expand...

Sounds like the test port for measuring pressure.
It can be used to hook a hose to if you chain the lift arms down.

(quoted from post at 14:39:23 08/05/17)

(quoted from post at 17:00:01 08/05/17)

(quoted from post at 11:15:21 07/09/17)

(quoted from post at 09:23:43 07/09/17)
I just remove the cylinder and used air and blew the piston out now my question is this Piston has three metal rings do I have to buy them or can I just use the rubber that came in the gasket set

Click to expand...

I ordered the upgrade NAA piston and rings before I ever removed my top cover. Turned out that it already had a NAA piston in it.

I figured I'd order a new cylinder if needed after inspecting my old one but the old one had no problems so I just installed the new piston. Removing a top cover is not something you want to do everyday so I recommend replacing everything that is questionable before replacing it.

Click to expand...

New update ! I now have the tractor up and functioning great ! Motor , tranny and hydro ! But I still have a question , under the tractor on the hydro plate is a plug protruding close to the muffler , is it for a hose to use with a implement? Or what ?

Click to expand...

Sounds like the test port for measuring pressure.
It can be used to hook a hose to if you chain the lift arms down.

Click to expand...

Question , I have a backhoe implement that I wish to hook up , can I connect it up to a hose connected to that port or is the pump not connected to it ?

(quoted from post at 18:37:54 08/05/17)

(quoted from post at 14:39:23 08/05/17)

(quoted from post at 17:00:01 08/05/17)

(quoted from post at 11:15:21 07/09/17)

(quoted from post at 09:23:43 07/09/17)
I just remove the cylinder and used air and blew the piston out now my question is this Piston has three metal rings do I have to buy them or can I just use the rubber that came in the gasket set

Click to expand...

I ordered the upgrade NAA piston and rings before I ever removed my top cover. Turned out that it already had a NAA piston in it.

I figured I'd order a new cylinder if needed after inspecting my old one but the old one had no problems so I just installed the new piston. Removing a top cover is not something you want to do everyday so I recommend replacing everything that is questionable before replacing it.

Click to expand...

New update ! I now have the tractor up and functioning great ! Motor , tranny and hydro ! But I still have a question , under the tractor on the hydro plate is a plug protruding close to the muffler , is it for a hose to use with a implement? Or what ?

Click to expand...

Sounds like the test port for measuring pressure.
It can be used to hook a hose to if you chain the lift arms down.

Click to expand...

Question , I have a backhoe implement that I wish to hook up , can I connect it up to a hose connected to that port or is the pump not connected to it ?

Click to expand...

Not likely to provide the flow your hoe would need. The pump makes a little under 3 GPM at best.

TOH

Zane, Can you message me or tell me how to send you a paypal payment for one of your lift jigs? Thanks

Mike

(quoted from post at 06:17:43 07/06/17) With all the water that is in the oil the control valve may be stuck. With the PTO turning and the right side inspection plate removed try to push the
long control rod forward to engage the control valve.

Or you may simply have the small "mode" lever under the seat in the "draft" mode. Be sure the lever is up in position mode. Lots of the time the draft
mode does not work because of wear or shock load damage to it's linkage and or adjustment.

Zane

Click to expand...