how new should I go?

rjm528n

New User
Hi--I have a 52 8n which I like but it needs a lot of work(clutch, brakes, axle seals, oil
pressure issues). I would like to upgrade at least somewhat. Definitely live hydraulics.
Live pto would be nice but is not a deal breaker. More horsepower would be welcome. As far
as appearance, I certainly don't need show quality but I don't want a total junker either.
I'm going to look at a 3000 tomorrow which looks quite nice paint-wise. I know that would be
a big leap. I've heard good things about these and know it would be more than adequate. One
concern I have is how much different it would be in terms of attachments. I have a couple of
19-29 rear loaders that I hope to restore someday as well as a carry-all that I use regularly.
I would like to someday have a working cordwood saw. Would the rear loaders, carry-all and
saw fit on a 3000? Would a decent Jubilee or 600 or 800 be a better way to go? I know I
should fix the 8N but I have limited skill and facilities and am at the point where I would
rather spend my time driving a tractor than working on it. Thoughts and opinions would be
greatly appreciated. Thank you.
 
Get the 3000 Ford if you need a working tractor, fix the 8N as needed when you can.
The 3000 is one I the best ever made, I ran one hard for 13 years and never could tear it up...
 
(quoted from post at 17:56:05 08/08/17) Hi--I have a 52 8n which I like but it needs a lot of work(clutch, brakes, axle seals, oil
pressure issues). I would like to upgrade at least somewhat. Definitely live hydraulics.
Live pto would be nice but is not a deal breaker. More horsepower would be welcome. As far
as appearance, I certainly don't need show quality but I don't want a total junker either.
I'm going to look at a 3000 tomorrow which looks quite nice paint-wise. I know that would be
a big leap. I've heard good things about these and know it would be more than adequate. One
concern I have is how much different it would be in terms of attachments. I have a couple of
19-29 rear loaders that I hope to restore someday as well as a carry-all that I use regularly.
I would like to someday have a working cordwood saw. Would the rear loaders, carry-all and
saw fit on a 3000? Would a decent Jubilee or 600 or 800 be a better way to go? I know I
should fix the 8N but I have limited skill and facilities and am at the point where I would
rather spend my time driving a tractor than working on it. Thoughts and opinions would be
greatly appreciated. Thank you.
017 with A/C cab, stereo, GPS, etc. and forget the old implements, get shiny new ones. Case/IH or JD or..........
 
(quoted from post at 19:52:28 08/08/17)
(quoted from post at 17:56:05 08/08/17) Hi--I have a 52 8n which I like but it needs a lot of work(clutch, brakes, axle seals, oil
pressure issues). I would like to upgrade at least somewhat. Definitely live hydraulics.
Live pto would be nice but is not a deal breaker. More horsepower would be welcome. As far
as appearance, I certainly don't need show quality but I don't want a total junker either.
I'm going to look at a 3000 tomorrow which looks quite nice paint-wise. I know that would be
a big leap. I've heard good things about these and know it would be more than adequate. One
concern I have is how much different it would be in terms of attachments. I have a couple of
19-29 rear loaders that I hope to restore someday as well as a carry-all that I use regularly.
I would like to someday have a working cordwood saw. Would the rear loaders, carry-all and
saw fit on a 3000? Would a decent Jubilee or 600 or 800 be a better way to go? I know I
should fix the 8N but I have limited skill and facilities and am at the point where I would
rather spend my time driving a tractor than working on it. Thoughts and opinions would be
greatly appreciated. Thank you.
017 with A/C cab, stereo, GPS, etc. and forget the old implements, get shiny new ones. Case/IH or JD or..........

Second that except you don't need the cab, GPS, stereo, and A/C if you are a real man ;-) A lot of really good stuff has happened since they designed the 3000's...

TOH
 
(quoted from post at 20:33:16 08/08/17)
(quoted from post at 19:52:28 08/08/17)
(quoted from post at 17:56:05 08/08/17) Hi--I have a 52 8n which I like but it needs a lot of work(clutch, brakes, axle seals, oil
pressure issues). I would like to upgrade at least somewhat. Definitely live hydraulics.
Live pto would be nice but is not a deal breaker. More horsepower would be welcome. As far
as appearance, I certainly don't need show quality but I don't want a total junker either.
I'm going to look at a 3000 tomorrow which looks quite nice paint-wise. I know that would be
a big leap. I've heard good things about these and know it would be more than adequate. One
concern I have is how much different it would be in terms of attachments. I have a couple of
19-29 rear loaders that I hope to restore someday as well as a carry-all that I use regularly.
I would like to someday have a working cordwood saw. Would the rear loaders, carry-all and
saw fit on a 3000? Would a decent Jubilee or 600 or 800 be a better way to go? I know I
should fix the 8N but I have limited skill and facilities and am at the point where I would
rather spend my time driving a tractor than working on it. Thoughts and opinions would be
greatly appreciated. Thank you.
017 with A/C cab, stereo, GPS, etc. and forget the old implements, get shiny new ones. Case/IH or JD or..........

Second that except you don't need the cab, GPS, stereo, and A/C if you are a real man ;-) A lot of really good stuff has happened since they designed the 3000's...

TOH
ell, I admit that the stereo & GPS was an attention grabber, but Texas summer & age is 'almost' enough to make me want A/C, if only I wasn't so frugal!
 
How new you should go depends largely upon what you plan to do with your tractor and how much money you plan to spend.

Though once a vintage Ford tractor user, and still an owner of four, nearly all of the work is being done by Kubotas these days.

Dean
 
All of your attachments should work on the 3000. I very seldom use my N's for any real work anymore. Also have an 841, but the 3000 is the go to tractor. The diesel fuel efficiency compared to the 841 is significant also.
 
I'm in tight woods and I like my 3400 (industrial 3000) but my goto is the 9n for anything I don't need the loader for. I just haven't gotten past the easy gearing of the N. On the 3400 even with having hi/lo reverse is either painfully slow or dangerously fast.
1751.jpg
1752.jpg


Guess I need more than 25 hrs on it to get comfortable with it. Like they're saying, it all depends on how much you want to spend.
 
Anything 1953 (NAA/Jubilee) and up would get you live hydraulics.
A 3000 would get you that, and "maybe" live PTO and "maybe"
power steering. So might a hundred or X01 series. Depends on
the tractor and transmission. What are you wanting to do with it?
 
I replied to your similar thread on the other board.
Fwiw, I just looked at some prices on a Kubota L3901 - ~40 hp, HST, FWA, etc
built 2014 - present.
Prices I saw ranged from about $18K for a used one to nearly $26K for a new one thats fully loaded.
I suspect a comparable JD or NH will be similarly priced.
A nice, well optioned 3000 or 3600 will run you $4-6K.
Your money, your call.
 
(quoted from post at 05:54:22 08/10/17) I replied to your similar thread on the other board.
Fwiw, I just looked at some prices on a Kubota L3901 - ~40 hp, HST, FWA, etc
built 2014 - present.
Prices I saw ranged from about $18K for a used one to nearly $26K for a new one thats fully loaded.
I suspect a comparable JD or NH will be similarly priced.
A nice, well optioned 3000 or 3600 will run you $4-6K.
Your money, your call.

Who would have guessed that 40-50 year old tractors with thousands of hours on them are a lot cheaper than new-3 year old tractors with more and better and features and somewhere between zero and a hundred or so hours on them:roll:

My goodness - this Kubota 4WD L4600GST (2011-2014) with 8/8 speed "power shift" transmission, 1300 hours on the 48 HP 3cyl diesel engine, and selling with a 72" 2015 Landpride bush hog is a whopping $9,500. That's truly insane - some of the paint on the tractor is even scratched....

TOH

L4800.jpg
 
You are on an antique tractor site TOH.
Specifically, one for small Ford tractors.
The OP asked about upgrading to a Jube,
6/800 or a 3000.
Making the jump from a $2500 N to a $4500
Jube, 6/800 or 3000 is within the realm of
the OP's question.
But making the leap to a $25,000 Kubota or
even a $9500 Kubota is neither within the
financial realm of this thread nor does it
at all pertain to these old Fords.
I think with a closer reading of his post
and a little less sarcasm your reply would
have been more helpful to everyone here.
 
"...but I have limited skill and facilities and am at the point where I would rather spend my time driving a tractor than working on it."
 
(quoted from post at 18:42:02 08/10/17) You are on an antique tractor site TOH.
Specifically, one for small Ford tractors.
The OP asked about upgrading to a Jube,
6/800 or a 3000.
Making the jump from a $2500 N to a $4500
Jube, 6/800 or 3000 is within the realm of
the OP's question.
But making the leap to a $25,000 Kubota or
even a $9500 Kubota is neither within the
financial realm of this thread nor does it
at all pertain to these old Fords.
I think with a closer reading of his post
and a little less sarcasm your reply would
have been more helpful to everyone here.

The question was "how new". I know exactly where I am and think I put the real costs, options, and trade-offs a lot closer than you did.

TOH
 

Probably the hardest work its ever done was mow grass. Its loader ready for that day when a loader is needed... My guess $18K new not a bad deal at all...
 
I posted a link to this the other day.
I still say it is worth looking at.
For a guy moving up from an N this would be a dream come true.
This tractor would have live hyds, 8 speed trans, lpto, ps and differential lock. These 3 cylinder diesels have proven reliability and are very fuel efficient. These have draft control, position control and draft WITH position control. Many newer tractors don't have draft control or it is an expensive option.
8+ gpm hyd pump with oil cooler and hyd filter. Easy to add remote hydraulics to.
They are rated 38 hp at the pto which is more like 50 hp at the flywheel - the way tractors are rated today.
Seller says it has low hours. Who knows...
Looks like it has Rops and a second set of tires.
They still have very good dealer support.
Parts are readily available and not as expensive as other brands.
It's not so pretty but rjm528n says that's not so important.
The price is reasonable.
Best of all it is a nice old Ford and would be rather familiar to a guy who has an N, Jube or Hundred.
And the Ford board here at YT is outstanding.
I have no affiliation with this tractor or the seller.
Ford 3600
 
If I had the money, I'd have a brand-spankin' new tractor myself.

But I see a lot of what UltraDog is saying. I have three tractors, a 2N that I rebuilt myself. A 3000 that I bought for 2700 bucks, put an aftermarket single remote (full single) on it for 300 bucks; and I spent about a hundred bucks to completely re-do the ignition system. I also have the use of a newer compact diesel that my brother lets me use.

On paper, the compact diesel is 28hp and four wheel drive. My 2N is 21 horsepower and two wheel drive.

Under field conditions, when it comes to traction; my 2N would pull the little diesel over backwards. It has more horsepower, but no working weight, crummy turf tires. Sure it has four wheel drive, but that just means that it makes ruts with the front and rear equally.

By the way, before I got the 3000. I was using the diesel to run a haybine and a baler. Guess what, it had enough power to do it, but the engine is LIGHT. It's not built for work like that, it needed a complete rebuild. I compare the small engines in some of these newer compact diesels to cheap welders...sure they got lots of power, but you can only use that power at a certain duty cycle. Just not enough mass there to take the heat.

When the diesel went down last year, I didn't have the 3000 yet. I have a friend whose field I bale. He had a brand spankin' new Kubota four wheel drive. 40 horsepower. I asked if I could rent it for a weekend to do hay. To my surprise, he said sure. 175 bucks a day.

I went over on Friday morning to get it to hook it up to the haybine. No remote hydraulics. No DRAWBAR! It had a three point hitch...and that's it. It's not built for farm work. You would need to spend some dough on top of the thousands you paid for it to get it set up for that.

A couple weeks later, I had the 3000, and I've been running the haybine and baler with it with no issues. I draw wagons , tedd and rake with the 2N.... total cost for the two of them? $3100 for the 3000...the 2N I bought for $1000 a couple of years ago and spent about $600 plus my time on an in-frame rebuild of the engine (at this point...the 2N starts better and runs smoother than the diesel, my 3000 and my neighbor's Kubota)

Kubotas and modern diesels are meant for industrial, landscaping and horse customers. In my humble opinion, when it comes to actual farm work, where you're running an implement that needs working weight to control and continuous power for hours on end (for example, a haybine in heavy forage)...dollar for dollar I would go with a tractor from about 1965 to 1985.

If cost was no object, then I would consider something newer and nicer.

Just a humble opinion.
 
(quoted from post at 12:14:10 08/11/17) If I had the money, I'd have a brand-spankin' new tractor myself.

But I see a lot of what UltraDog is saying. I have three tractors, a 2N that I rebuilt myself. A 3000 that I bought for 2700 bucks, put an aftermarket single remote (full single) on it for 300 bucks; and I spent about a hundred bucks to completely re-do the ignition system. I also have the use of a newer compact diesel that my brother lets me use.

On paper, the compact diesel is 28hp and four wheel drive. My 2N is 21 horsepower and two wheel drive.

Under field conditions, when it comes to traction; my 2N would pull the little diesel over backwards. It has more horsepower, but no working weight, crummy turf tires. Sure it has four wheel drive, but that just means that it makes ruts with the front and rear equally.

By the way, before I got the 3000. I was using the diesel to run a haybine and a baler. Guess what, it had enough power to do it, but the engine is LIGHT. It's not built for work like that, it needed a complete rebuild. I compare the small engines in some of these newer compact diesels to cheap welders...sure they got lots of power, but you can only use that power at a certain duty cycle. Just not enough mass there to take the heat.

When the diesel went down last year, I didn't have the 3000 yet. I have a friend whose field I bale. He had a brand spankin' new Kubota four wheel drive. 40 horsepower. I asked if I could rent it for a weekend to do hay. To my surprise, he said sure. 175 bucks a day.

I went over on Friday morning to get it to hook it up to the haybine. No remote hydraulics. No DRAWBAR! It had a three point hitch...and that's it. It's not built for farm work. You would need to spend some dough on top of the thousands you paid for it to get it set up for that.

A couple weeks later, I had the 3000, and I've been running the haybine and baler with it with no issues. I draw wagons , tedd and rake with the 2N.... total cost for the two of them? $3100 for the 3000...the 2N I bought for $1000 a couple of years ago and spent about $600 plus my time on an in-frame rebuild of the engine (at this point...the 2N starts better and runs smoother than the diesel, my 3000 and my neighbor's Kubota)

Kubotas and modern diesels are meant for industrial, landscaping and horse customers. In my humble opinion, when it comes to actual farm work, where you're running an implement that needs working weight to control and continuous power for hours on end (for example, a haybine in heavy forage)...dollar for dollar I would go with a tractor from about 1965 to 1985.

If cost was no object, then I would consider something newer and nicer.

Just a humble opinion.

Yes - there are cheaper older machines that are better suited to some very specific tasks like plowing than many modern small utility tractors. But Kubota (and similar companies) make a wide range of machines. Even my ancient B7200 has a provision for a drawbar so I don't know what Kubota you were looking at and wore out.

As for principally agricultural machines perhaps you are not familiar with the "mid-size" M-series Kubotas which are most definitely good selling "small" agricultural machines. They are not cheap and not for the low budget farmer. Dollar for dollar the people that really need such a machine to be up and running day in and day out are choosing something other than 30 year old Ford tractors. I don't think you would want to pit your old Fords in a pulling contest with this Kubota or simialr machines for a host of competitors:

Kubota M Series

Kubota does not compete against REAL modern agricultural machines which are much larger and much more expensive and even the smaller ones would eat them and any Ford tractor ever made:

9570r.jpg


Pick your machine based on your needs and budget. They did not quit making good agricultural tractors when Ford went out of business. There are plenty of new machines to chose from and the REAL farmers in this world are using them because they are cost effective. Hobby farmers may not be able to afford or justify them but that does not make them any less utilitarian.

TOH
 

I have a 3000 nice machine BUY you could easily end up with well over 6/7K in it and still have a $3000 tractor... A N about the same but it will be a $2000 tractor... I have a bota but want a bigger one It does zackly what I brought it for NO 3000 are N could out work the jobs I have put it thru you can bank on DAT.... That being said Its not a plowing tractor but that all it lacks in... I gave up sum'N with HST if I would have got a gear drive then we would have a plow'N machine but not efficient for the other taste I needed that the Fords lacked in that money could not BUY...

Draw bar my bota came with one don't need it... Remotes I got'em front back and side ways... It even has inside plumbing I can take a chit and never leave the seat...When I was a big time gardener You could not pry from my cold dead hands any of the farmalls I have...

Worst case move'N up is the cost of doing business.. Most folks live in a house that cost more than they need, drive cars trucks that cost more they need but fudge at the idea of buying a piece of equipment that will get'er done and you don't have to fudge with it...

I am guilty of every thing but the house I did enjoy the fix'N up of old tractors but never considered it a good investment... The IRS did not either....
 
It's interesting how a question about upgrading to a Jube, Hundred or Thousand has turned into a discussion, advertisement? for Kubotas.
Most people here bought an N in the first place because they are cheap. Then they found they are simple, reliable, fun little tractors with a 3 point hitch and will do a surprising amount of work for you. But if someone here just wants live hydraulics and asks about a bit of an upgrade there's always those same few members here who say buy a $10 to $25+K Kubota or stay home and stick with your N.
And no one ever says to them (paraphrased) "I wonder why you even frequent this board. You don't like Fords very much."
Now don't get me wrong, I do know something about the advantages of new equipment. I've driven new 3/4t pickups every 5 years for a long time because my CPA tells me it is time for a new one.
And I know something about Japanese equipment as my wife likes new Camrys and I know they are great cars. So I dont doubt that Kubotas are great machines. And New is fun too.
But going from a $2500 N to a $25,000 Kubota is beyond the means of many of us here. Partly because this is just a hobby and there are no write-offs for one. And also because you just don't need New to do an occasional bit of gardening, deer plotting, brush hogging or hauling firewood.
So to you guys who want an upgrade but don't want to break the bank, remember that there are plenty of great old Ford tractors that can be had for under $6K.
They won't have HST, FWA or drink holders but they will have a lot more features than an N and do a heck of a lot of work for you - for 1/5 the cost of a Kubota.
 
(quoted from post at 06:18:55 08/12/17) It's interesting how a question about upgrading to a Jube, Hundred or Thousand has turned into a discussion, advertisement? for Kubotas.
Most people here bought an N in the first place because they are cheap. Then they found they are simple, reliable, fun little tractors with a 3 point hitch and will do a surprising amount of work for you. But if someone here just wants live hydraulics and asks about a bit of an upgrade there's always those same few members here who say buy a $10 to $25+K Kubota or stay home and stick with your N.
And no one ever says to them (paraphrased) "I wonder why you even frequent this board. You don't like Fords very much."
Now don't get me wrong, I do know something about the advantages of new equipment. I've driven new 3/4t pickups every 5 years for a long time because my CPA tells me it is time for a new one.
And I know something about Japanese equipment as my wife likes new Camrys and I know they are great cars. So I dont doubt that Kubotas are great machines. And New is fun too.
But going from a $2500 N to a $25,000 Kubota is beyond the means of many of us here. Partly because this is just a hobby and there are no write-offs for one. And also because you just don't need New to do an occasional bit of gardening, deer plotting, brush hogging or hauling firewood.
So to you guys who want an upgrade but don't want to break the bank, remember that there are plenty of great old Ford tractors that can be had for under $6K.
They won't have HST, FWA or drink holders but they will have a lot more features than an N and do a heck of a lot of work for you - for 1/5 the cost of a Kubota.

The thread has digressed into a discussion of the [u:e28eb19874]capabilities[[/u:e28eb19874]/b] of newer versus older utility tractors and a lot that has been said about the capabilities and price of newer machines is simply wrong. That is what prompted my responses. I have nothing against old Fords and own two N-series. I recognize their limitations just like I recognize the limitations of my two Kubotas.

I am not selling Kubota althgiugh they are my brand of choice. It just seems Kubota is your preferred whipping boy and I am trying to keep the record straight on what the tradeoffs actually are and where the price points really lay. When someone asks "how new" I am going to offer my opinion and some market examples to back them up just like you offered yours. We have divergent opinions and while this is an old Ford forum I would hope differing opinions are welcome here. It's a way to get something less than a tunnel vision view of the issues.

This board is more diverse than you think and MANY of it's participants are more than able to afford a NEW $25,000 or even $50,000 tractor. Some already own more than one and for them spending more for a newer tractor is a reasonable choice. There is a whole population of people that need/want a tractor but don't want and can't deal with the issues of maintaining a 40 year old machine. They also want the comfort and features found on newer machines and for them it is worth the added cost.

Those on more restricted budgets can shop the used market and spend a lot less. The choice is not limited to a new $35,000 Kubota or a $6000 40 year old Ford. There is a diverse lineup of fine late model used machines from Case, Deere, IH,Massey Ferguson, Kubota, Mahindra, and more. You can find machines that compete quite favorably on both price and performance with the older Fords. All you have to do is look.

TOH
 
[i:654c4848f0]" It just seems Kubota is your
preferred whipping boy"[/i:654c4848f0]

There have been scores, maybe a hundred
threads here where you have extolled the
virtues of your kubotas.
Nothing wrong with a man being happy with
his purchase and recommending one to
others.
But can you show me any, even one, where I
have spoken ill of them in any way?
I doubt you can.
Yes, this board is or should be, a big
tent where diverse opinions are allowed.
But is suggesting a new kubota to a guy
that asks about a jube,100 or 1000 apt or
appropriate to his query? Maybe it is to
you. But from here it looks like just
another occasion where you to promote your
own favorite but wholly unrelated tractor
- brand wise,era wise and price wise.
 
(quoted from post at 09:41:22 08/12/17) [i:352fdee3fd]" It just seems Kubota is your
preferred whipping boy"[/i:352fdee3fd]

There have been scores, maybe a hundred
threads here where you have extolled the
virtues of your kubotas.
Nothing wrong with a man being happy with
his purchase and recommending one to
others.
But can you show me any, even one, where I
have spoken ill of them in any way?
I doubt you can.
Yes, this board is or should be, a big
tent where diverse opinions are allowed.
But is suggesting a new kubota to a guy
that asks about a jube,100 or 1000 apt or
appropriate to his query? Maybe it is to
you. But from here it looks like just
another occasion where you to promote your
own favorite but wholly unrelated tractor
- brand wise,era wise and price wise.
Not even close to a hundred posts - probably less than 20 and usually in response to your evangelical pitch of the Ford thousand series. Look back through this thread. The first mention of Kubota was in your initial response where you provided what I consider to be a very inaccurate and one-sided comparison of your dearly beloved 40 year old blue tractors with my dearly beloved orange tractors. Prior to that I had spoken in generalities. You regularly point out the inadequacies of the older Fords (9N, 2N, 8N, NAA and Hundred series) in comparison to the later thousand series and consistently advise that it is better to spend a few thousand dollars more for a newer and more featured Ford 3xxx/4xxx than for a cheaper and less featured N-series. I totally agree. All I am doing is offering that same advice with regard to the your thousand series. There are tens of thousands of newer and better tractors available for just a few thousand dollars more than the cost of a 40 year old tractor. It doesn't have to be a Kubota - there are a dozon OEM's including Ford that have produced better, more featured, and user friendly machines that will have seen far less use and abuse.

My advice to anyone that cares is real simple. Buy the newest and most featured tractor you can reasonably afford regardless of color. Press your budget to the limit else you will be back in he market sooner rather than later. Get knowledgeable and comparison shop everything before you buy. Try to eliminate the brand zealots from the pragmatists. A lot has happened in the last half century and there is no one best color.

I think that is essentially what JMOR said early on.....

TOH
 

When you need another write off tell yer CPA you are gonna keep you 5 year old truck and buy a Bota they write off the same... 8) Mine is a expensive fork lift but its the one I wanted...

1856.jpg
1857.jpg
 
You know what Old Hokie? I'm going to admit that I generalized "Kubota" to mean your generic modern compact diesel meant for industrial and/or landscaping type tasks.

I was aware that they and others made machines for more general agricultural tasks.

I'm an engineer by trade; so I like numbers. When you mentioned the M series, I did a quick look around the internet and found that the MX4800 would be comparable to the Ford 3000; as far as horsepower.

I'm using the 3000; since it's the model most mentioned in this thread.

Doing a little snooping, I found an MX4800 with less hours on it than it would take to watch the entire "Fast and Furious" franchise..well...maybe a few more. Anyway, two wheel drive with a loader. It's something like 17K.

That's not all that far from what a 3000 would cost in good condition.

My 3000 is still running...but if I needed to replace it....???

https://www.external_link.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/19316107/2016-kubota-mx4800dt

I'd like to think that I'm not a zealot myself. In my soul, though, I know that the Farmall 1206 with MFWD is my favorite tractor. I'll probably never buy one; but that's the difference between having a favorite and looking for something that makes sense.

:)

Have a good night gentlemen.
 
Well, after reading The Old Hokie's reply to my post; I thought, "What the heck? Why not look into what he's talking about?"

A Kubota MX4800 is about the same as a Ford 3000 by "macro" specifications such as horsepower.

A little snooping yielded one with barely any hours, two wheel drive and a loader for 17K5 (or 17,500).

I don't know...that's not a terribly big gap from a Ford 3000 in good condition with a loader.

https://www.external_link.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/19316107/2016-kubota-mx4800dt
 
lastcowboy32, I don't know what links you are trying to post, but
whatever they are, they are not allowed on the YT forum so they
show up as "external_link" on classic view and the entire posts don't
show up at all on modern view. They do send us emails that they were
posted though, so it took me a while to figure out where they were.
No skin off my nose, but I thought you might like to know.
 
"Try to eliminate the brand zealots from the pragmatists."
Good advice! Some people think that what they have (a result of their "excellent" decision making) is what everyone else should have.....just the way some people are. I have 2 Fords, a MF, an IH & a fork lift with a VW engine. They all do what each does best & as long as they work, I love all of them....otherwise I cuss it! It is really nice for old men to have enough tractors to not have to expend what little energy we have left in changing implements. Get along folks.....no one needs to press his preference on everyone else. Just because this is a Ford forum, everyone need not be blue.
 
Fellas,
I don't have anything against Kubotas.
And I challenge anyone here to find even one post where I have spoken ill of them. Cause I have not. Ever!
As lastcowboy said, I used Kubota in this thread as an example of of a generic modern tractor and even then I included NH and JD in that post.
I couldn't help but notice that those of you with Kubotas sure came to their defense in a hurry though - in spite of all the fine talk about not being a brand zealot, wink.
I also agree with the statement about buying as much tractor as you can afford, and then a little more. All of you know that I have said many times here that it makes no sense to me to spend $1K on an N and then spend another $4K restoring it. Far better to spend $5K up front and get a newer tractor to begin with.
On the other hand, suggesting to a guy who wants to upgrade from a $2500 N that he go out and spend $25+K on a new MF (Notice I didn't say Kubota here - don't want any more pants wetting) is ludicrous and smacks of bragging.
I shouldn't need to tell you that many if not most people here have an occasional need for a tractor but they sure don't need THAT much tractor.
My contention all along in this thread was the OP wanted an upgrade from a tired old N to a newer FORD and he even suggested some specific models, all of which can be had for $5K or less.
Toh, you state that I frequently tout the virtues of my 3000 here. You are probably correct in that and maybe I do it too often. But I will again remind you of two things. This IS an antique tractor forum dedicated to old Fords. And my 3000 IS a $5K tractor which has a lot more features than an N.
So when I see folks going whole hog on an N restoration I remind them that they could have my tractor for the same money.
That is much different than you guys suggesting they buy a new tractor and in my opinion your suggestion would be more appropriate on a board like tractorbynet where they wrangle over $50K MFs vs $48K JDs or or NHs.
As for me, I probably will never own a new tractor.
I'm one of those occasional use types and wound rather spend my dough on other things.
And I am partial to these old Fords. All of them, from 39-99 and don't mind being called a zealot about the brand.
 
(quoted from post at 19:23:56 08/12/17) "Try to eliminate the brand zealots from the pragmatists."
Good advice! Some people think that what they have (a result of their "excellent" decision making) is what everyone else should have.....just the way some people are. I have 2 Fords, a MF, an IH & a fork lift with a VW engine. They all do what each does best & as long as they work, I love all of them....otherwise I cuss it! It is really nice for old men to have enough tractors to not have to expend what little energy we have left in changing implements. Get along folks.....no one needs to press his preference on everyone else. Just because this is a Ford forum, everyone need not be blue.

One thing not mentioned here is, other than how new, what brand can be affected by who has the closest local support.

I grew up with Farm all. I have a couple of fords, partly because there was a dealer close by for support. Ironically, they have stopped supporting old tractors completely. They auctioned off all of their used Ford stock and switched to Massey.

Right now, Mahindra is closest to me. Then Massey. Then Kubota. Then Case IH. I honestly don't even know who's doing Ford around here.

In the absence of actual dealer support, the next level is the internet. Part of the reason that I've stuck with Ford is this very forum. It seems that whatever problem I've had has been experienced by someone else.

I'm sure that there are forums for other brands too. I'm just saying that support and familiarity is worth something.
 
(quoted from post at 04:54:40 08/13/17) Fellas,

So when I see folks going whole hog on an N restoration I remind them that they could have my tractor for the same money.
That is much different than [color=red:8a37aba96b]you guys[/color:8a37aba96b] suggesting they buy a new tractor and in my opinion your suggestion would be more appropriate on a board like tractorbynet where they wrangle over $50K MFs vs $48K JDs or or NHs.

Again - read the thread. I did not suggest he buy a new tractor - just the opposite. I took exception to YOUR price comparison of a new Kubota to 40 year old Fords. I felt and still do that was a strawman comparison that wasn't in the least helpful and intended to set up your pitch for the old Fords. In response I pointed out that he could get a used but much newer and in my opinion better tractor (in this case the same Kubota brand you had used as an example) for only a small amount more than the much older Fords. I had a similar response to lastcowboy's assertions that "modern diesel" tractors (again he named Kubota) are not suitable for agricultural tasks. That is simply nonsense regardless of brand.

I try to be color agnostic in my buying advice. In past discussions of these "upgrade" questions I have provided examples of what I think are potential machines from JD, MF, Case, White, David Brown, IH, Mahindra, Kioti, and others. In all of those cases the basis for mentioning them was features, performance, reasonable price, and most importantly age and low hours - not color.

I have never owned a new tractor, car, or truck and probably never will because I am unwilling to pay the premium for that showroom fresh smell. But I will pay a small premium over an older cheaper machine for a reasonably priced later model used machine that comes with lower usage, higher reliability, less maintenance, better performance, good OEM support, and more advanced state of the art features/creature comforts that are of value/use to me.

Although they are my personal preferences for all of those reasons I do not consider myself a Kubota tractor, BMW automobile, or Dodge truck zealot - rather a pragmatist with a squeaky wallet, open mind, and a healthy respect for the competition.

TOH
 
Hokie,

I do have to admit to generalizing. Sure, most of the "modern diesels" that I talked about are aimed at the landscaping, horse farm, suburban and construction markets; but I shouldn't have extrapolated that to an entire brand.

I agree that you can find true agricultural tractors within most of the brands.

In reality I used a generalized sledgehammer to try to make a point that is really fine and focused.

That is:

I think that there is a risk of being drawn in by a false economy with some (some being the operative word) newer tractors. If you only look at horsepower; I think that, for certain applications (certain being the operative word), you can look at an older tractor and compare it to a newer one and possibly make a mistake.

If you're looking at something like a Ford 3000; which can be purchased for roughly 2700 to 5000 dollars, depending on condition; you can indeed find some newer tractors for not much more. I'm going to use the B series Kubota that you mentioned as an example. Sure, you can find them for under ten grand in the used market.

For certain applications; like running a finish mower; my humble opinion is that you're indeed probably better off going with the newer tractor. It's smaller size and better ergonomics would really shine in that application. Instead of tinkering with an old machine; you can just get on and go.

You also can't beat that newer machine in the application that Hobo pictured. They have great hydraulics, loaders and ergonomics to be used around your shop as a glorified forklift. Not to mention, they have modern exhaust standards; so you won't gas yourself to death if you have to drive it into a building here and there.

If you are really looking to work the machine hard; or use it on heavy agricultural implements; you used plowing as an example, then you need to consider more than just horsepower. You need to consider the working weight of the machine. The size of the cooling system comes into play. The size of the rear tires comes into play. A finer point is the working width of the tractor too. I work on side hills, and the wide stance of an old N or a 3000 (with axles extended) makes me feel safer. Some (again, some being the operative word) "modern diesels" are designed to be trailered, and they have a narrow stance, relative to the amount of horsepower offered.

For these applications, I was wrong to imply that they don't make newer tractors to do it. But, you're not going to find them at a comparable price. In Kubota, for example, you'd need to move up to the M series. I looked at the specs. Damn fine machines. They're just going to be up at a substantially higher price range.

But if you have the dough and don't want to fiddle with an old machine; it's a good choice.
 
A couple weeks later, I had the 3000, and I've been running the haybine and baler with it with no issues.

What size baler ? Hopefully I have my IH/Case 8420 4' baler ready to go next weekend ? I picked up a Deere 9' belt drive sickle mower cheap . Hope my 3000 is up to the task .
 
(quoted from post at 10:16:58 08/13/17) Hokie,


For these applications, I was wrong to imply that they don't make newer tractors to do it. But, you're not going to find them at a comparable price. In Kubota, for example, you'd need to move up to the M series. I looked at the specs. Damn fine machines. They're just going to be up at a substantially higher price range.

But if you have the dough and don't want to fiddle with an old machine; it's a good choice.

You are not going to find them at a comparable price and no one said you would. But I am quite sure you can get a much newer and better tractor for just a bit more money. Far less than the cost of an M series from Kubota. When comparing machines you have to get real and compare apples to apples.

Assuming we are talking a $4K 1975 vintage 3000 the specifications on your your 40 year old tractor are a 3400 pound (unballasted) machine with 47 engine HP/40 PTO HP tractor, 3 speed gear drive transmission with two manually selected ranges, a rated 3pt lift capacity of 1700 pounds, and a 5 GPM hydraulic system. You might have the 12 speed or SOS variants but they would of course be "extras" and cost a little more as would the independent PTO.

If you want to limit the discussion to Kubota you certainly don't have to go to the M series to match up to that. A high end L series like the L6060 will do any job your 3000 will do and do it easier and faster. It is a bigger and more capable machine that will also do things your 3000 can't.

An L6060 is a 4000 pound (unballasted) MFWD tractor with 63 engine/55 independent (standard) PTO horsepower, infinitely variable hydrostatic transmssion, a 3000 pound rated 3pt lift with (optional) draft control, a 9 GPM remote hydraulic system and up to 3 remotes with valves and a separate 5 GPM PS system. It's a fully capable agricultural machine and obviously a whole lot more money than your 3000. It is also a lot more tractor than your 3000.

Given a little time to look I am sure I can find something currently for sale that's a closer match to the 3000 and a whole lot less expensive ($10-$12K) in one of the similar but older Kubota L series models. Even less if I shop used Case, New Holland, MF, or Mahindra. A used JD will likely be a bit more expensive or older than a comparable Kubota. All will be 20-30 years newer than your venerable 3000 and more than capable of matching the 3000 in the field.

If you don't have the dough, only do a little hobby farming, and/or don't mind fiddling with old tractors the 3000 might be the better choice for you. It is one of teh less expensive machines around and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the tractor if you don't mind dealing with an aging and well worn machine. For folks with a different need or mindset a newer tractor (any color) may be a much better choice. For the umpty-umpth time I'll repeat - buy the tractor that best fits your needs and budget and forget the "blue is better than pink" / "old is better than new" wars. There are way more situations and choices than one....

TOH
 
So did you get the 3000? Great tractors.
I own a couple 3000's and several other models including the N's.

If you're still looking, I thought I'd point out that the 860/861 or
960/961 actually has more HP than the 3000 and is usually cheaper.
They can be had with power steering and remote hydraulics.
They will have a 5 speed transmission instead of the options
available on the 3000, but like many Fords, the transmission on
the 3000 determines whether or not you have live PTO in that era.
 
(quoted from post at 18:33:55 08/13/17) I have never seen a 3000 with 12 sp = 4
speed with Sherman type combo. I know they
made them tho.
3000s are usually rated about 38 pto hp.
Nebraska tests

I've only driven two 3000's in my life. My uncle had one when I was a kid; and I have one now.

Both of them had a high/low range lever and another lever with 4 forward speeds and reverse.

So, they had 8 forward and 2 reverse gears.

When I bale with my 3000, I do sometimes find myself wishing for that torque amplifier (Farmall) or Dual Power (Ford) feature. It would be nice to be able to slow down for a thick piece of windrow without clutching.

Some newer machines have hydrostatic...it would be nice...not gonna lie.

Admittedly, one downfall of the older and smaller fords is breakneck reverse speeds. Even in low range, my 3000 backs up pretty quickly. If somebody's hooking you up to a wagon; they need to be quick on the draw (pin).

I can only think of one or two times where I ever used the high range reverse on my 3000 or used the Sherman step up reverse on my 2N. It's just about like reverse "road gear." Not for the faint of heart.

After the weekend I just had though, if I were to give anybody advice; it would be: don't worry about having old tractors, but if you want to spend a little to make your life easier...use the extra money on new implements :)
 

Ken,

I run a New Holland 276. Running the baler is relatively easy for the old 3000.

A couple caveats, though. I bale on the ground; so I'm not pulling a wagon. Even if I was, it wouldn't be much of an issue on flat ground; but I would never take a baler and a wagon on a side hill with a 3000. A baler, a wagon and a hundred bales of hay behind it would shove it all over.

The hardest that the old girl works during haying season is on the haybine. Last week, I was going up hill with just a seven foot haybine; but it was mowing canary grass that I couldn't touch the top of that was thick as hair on a dog. Made the old girl grunt; but she mowed for three hours in 85 degree heat like that without incident. Obviously, it wasn't ALL up hill :) But you get the point.
 

That's HOT in NY... :)

I realize, though...that's just the temperature at breakfast time for some of the people on here from TX, or wherever.
 
Lastcowboy: CaseIH should be able to support the old Fords now that FIAT owns NH. At least my closest CaseIH dealer can.

Man all this arguing......yea the OP ask about newer Ford tractors. But there are other brands out there. I was bidding on a mid 70's International utility just yesterday. AS far as the newer ones go? Yea Kubota seems to be about the most mentioned and have an excellent reputation. Now even the red guys on one of their forums warn others to stay away from the CaseIH compacts or even the smaller new farm tractors. I always base recommendations on 2 things. Parts and mechanical support. If you have to drive 90 miles one way for parts or to have something worked on for many that isn't practical. Here for example JD, CaseIH are both 25 miles away. Kubota 35, Miranda and NH 45. MF is 60. So when you need something that matters. I know others where 90 to 100 miles is normal. But with these old tractors you generally are not going to do any better than next day. That doesn't help at 8AM with hay on the ground ready to bale and rain in the forecast for that night. Or for that matter for some of our city folks who entertain business guest at their "summer" homes expecting guest tomorrow (and yea, some of these guys enjoy doing their own work on their property). So support is important. They stock parts for near new tractors but for old ones the best they can do is next day for most things. Sometimes you just don't have the time to send a carb off to someone to rebuild. Me? I'd love to have a new Kubota or JD MFW about the same physical size as an N. I can afford the payment too. 1 I can't justify the cost and 2, I hate payments. Then a lot of guys lack either the tools, knowledge or facilities to do some types of work. They have to have support too. Again dealer location is important.

Rick
 

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