starting issue 8N

Have a early 8N with starting issue, bought it at an Auction as not running. Here the situation: Have good Compression 115 to 125, have spark, points are set to spec, have Power on the new Coil, Ignition Wires are good and Plugs are new. Motor seem to have 4 new Piston align mark points to Cylinder 1, Motor has also a new Cam and the Timing Marks seem to be correct. When timing Marks agree between Cam and Crank Cylinder 1 is around 25 degree before TDC. At this point both Valves are closed no play and movement. The only thing to fix and set is the carburetor but it should fire at least with starting fluid and it wont. A carb from a working 8 N has the same behavior. I'm out of Ideas and it makes no sense to me not even getting a misfire or some kind of a life sign on this Motor. Has somebody experienced something like this, has a previous Mechanic pulled a dirty trick with the timing on me?

Ruediger........When talking about 8N's, there are 2-kinds of dizzys. The weird 4-nipple front mount (0.015) and the more common 5-nipple side mount (0.025) Ford compression specs: 90psi min, 110psi normal, 125psi brandy new rebuilt. So yer golden there. The weird 4-nipple dizzy is actually meant to be timed on the kitchen table. (seriously) Remove 2-bolts and walk. Replace the points, (0.015) and insert the corner of $1-bill (cheap) between the points and PULL. Polish the INVISIBLE CORROSION from between the points. You'll also see the timing marks. Setter to 4* BTDC. Thats all you need with todays HI-OCTAIN gas. The low compression N-engine was designed fer 70-octain in 1939. When you re-install the 4-nipple dizzy, insert the 2-bolts and then install yer rotor. Rotate yer rotor until the OFF-SET tang fits the OFF-SET slot in the camshaft. Now tighten yer 2-bolts and re-snapple yer capple. Simple, eh? BIG CAUTION: iff'n your replacement sparkie wires are the modern STRING type fer yer BelchFire-V8, you'll nebber gitter to start. COPPER CORE sparkie wires golden. Final comment, replace yer sparkies AGAIN!!! They've been FLOODED and you'll nebber gitter to start. Recommend AutoLite 437's gapped 0.025. Don't throw yer FLOODED sparkies away, just clean'n'dry 'em, one-atta-time in HOT running engine and save'um fer the next time. (and there will be a NEXT time) ........HTH, Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

(quoted from post at 08:28:42 07/26/17) Have a early 8N with starting issue, bought it at an Auction as not running. Here the situation: Have good Compression 115 to 125, have spark, points are set to spec, have Power on the new Coil, Ignition Wires are good and Plugs are new. Motor seem to have 4 new Piston align mark points to Cylinder 1, Motor has also a new Cam and the Timing Marks seem to be correct. When timing Marks agree between Cam and Crank Cylinder 1 is around 25 degree before TDC. At this point both Valves are closed no play and movement. The only thing to fix and set is the carburetor but it should fire at least with starting fluid and it wont. A carb from a working 8 N has the same behavior. I'm out of Ideas and it makes no sense to me not even getting a misfire or some kind of a life sign on this Motor. Has somebody experienced something like this, has a previous Mechanic pulled a dirty trick with the timing on me?

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"Motor seem to have 4 new Piston align mark points to Cylinder 1, "

Not sure what you man by this?
"

(quoted from post at 11:48:24 07/26/17)

(quoted from post at 08:28:42 07/26/17) Have a early 8N with starting issue, bought it at an Auction as not running. Here the situation: Have good Compression 115 to 125, have spark, points are set to spec, have Power on the new Coil, Ignition Wires are good and Plugs are new. Motor seem to have 4 new Piston align mark points to Cylinder 1, Motor has also a new Cam and the Timing Marks seem to be correct. When timing Marks agree between Cam and Crank Cylinder 1 is around 25 degree before TDC. At this point both Valves are closed no play and movement. The only thing to fix and set is the carburetor but it should fire at least with starting fluid and it wont. A carb from a working 8 N has the same behavior. I'm out of Ideas and it makes no sense to me not even getting a misfire or some kind of a life sign on this Motor. Has somebody experienced something like this, has a previous Mechanic pulled a dirty trick with the timing on me?

Click to expand...

"Motor seem to have 4 new Piston align mark points to Cylinder 1, "

Not sure what you man by this?
"

Click to expand...

ame here, plus what is meaning of 25 degrees before TDC? 25 degrees?

Hello There
when I align the Timing marks between crank and cam piston # 1 is not in TDC (Top dead center). I have to rotate the crank around 25 degrees more to bring the # 1 Piston up to TDC

Hello there
Every (new or replacement) Piston has a casted arrow which need to point forward to the front of the engine (Cylinder No 1 position) when assembled. This is a very helpful Mark when a motor inspection (tear down) is done and no new parts are used to re assemble the Engine. This happens more often than you think, no need to replace parts if all measurements are to factory spec's. This brings the piston in the exact position it was before the tear down unless you put it in the wrong Cylinder. A wrong assembled Piston either 180 degree rotated and the mark pointed in the wrong direction or in the wrong Cylinder (using broke in Pistons) will result in excessive wear and tear, worst case seizing up and ruining Piston and sleeve.
What I try to say with my statement somebody before me built the engine, put quite a bit of money in, assembled obviously the pistons correct but could not get the motor running

(quoted from post at 08:22:21 07/27/17) Hello There
when I align the Timing marks between crank and cam piston # 1 is not in TDC (Top dead center). I have to rotate the crank around 25 degrees more to bring the # 1 Piston up to TDC

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I suppose there is some remote possibility that I am mistaken, but.....I believe that when crank gear/cam gear marks align, that all four pistons are at mid-point in cylinders, therefore it would require 90 degrees of rotation to move 2 to TDC and 2 to BDC. There were/are more than one type of cam gear. Some can slip, others I think can not..........might need looking at if your 25 is correct.

The cam and crank timing marks sound right, I would be looking else where for your problem, assume the cam gear bolts to the cam shaft.
assume it is a front mount distributor.
I would double check firing order 1,2,4,3.

Hello Dell
Thanks for your explanations, they have been very helpful. I double checked all settings and parts and it is in the way it supposed too. The only thing I did not touch was the carburetor and you dropped a hint about flooding. I leaned out the carb close to nothing and it start to fire (after I dried up the Plugs for a few times). Finally I got it running, stabile but rough sounding. I realized I do not have any Oil pressure, and it is not the Gauge. All the lines are dry even with the spring loaded plunger in the timing cover in place. I'm starting to understand why the tractor was in the Auction. Confusion on my side changed to challenge and I will tear down the Motor completely to figure out what's going on.
Thanks for you help and have a nice weekend
Ruediger