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9n running problems

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Shaddiesel

07-16-2017 11:36:33




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Hello,
My ford 9n started having problems yesterday when I started mowing with my finishing mower. When the pto was not running the tractor would run just fine. When the pto and the finishing mower were running the tractor would like throttle it self down and almost die. It wouldn't do this the whole time just every so often. When it started to die I had to push the clutch in and stop the pto to keep it from dying. It reminds me of a push mower or riding mower when the grass is too high and it starts to shut down due to the high grass. Now today I started mowing again and it started doing the same thing as yesterday every so often it would throttle down and try to die. Then finally it killed itself and now it will not start. I push the ignition in but the starter does not try to turn over and I do not hear it trying to turn over like u normally would. My guess is that I need a new starter but would this be the cause for the throttling down and dying problem that I'm having with the tractor? A little info about the tractor- I bought it last summer out of a farmers field it did not run I replaced the spark plugs ran all new wiring got a new battery for it a new alternator new coil new distributor cap new points new spark plug wires and a new paint job. So almost everything is new on it so my guess is the starter, but not positive.

Thank you

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Shaddiesel

07-21-2017 07:43:27




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
That makes sense, thank you both for the help I will keep u updated when I get a new 12v coil on Monday



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Bruce (VA)

07-21-2017 10:18:56




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-21-2017 07:43:27  
You're welcome.

As to preventing it from happening again, see tip # 40.

You own a 65+ year old tractor. It does not have a "maintenance due" light on the dash. If you do not spend the time and money on frequent maintenance, the tractor will let you know by not running.

And, even if you do keep it well maintained, they do stop running now & then. So when that happens, turn the key off. Putting 4+ amps into a coil that isn't designed for it will get you another melted coil.

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JMOR

07-21-2017 07:40:29




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
[quote="Shaddiesel"](quoted from post at 10:06:22 07/21/17) What "seems like" & the actual sequence of events may not be the same & it is not now possible to "know". For example, just 'example'.......points were wearing & while mowing, the operate/no operate breaking point was reached & it stalled. At this point, maybe nothing was burned/destroyed. But since it stalled, you climbed down & went to the house, leaving ignition on and while you were absent, the damage occurred due to 4-4 amperes 100% of the time.
Remember, as Bruce said, when operation, the 4-5 amperes is greatly reduced by the opening/closing of points and exponential coil charging curve.....down from 100% to about 25 to 30% or about 1 to 1 1/2 amperes actual running current.

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Shaddiesel

07-21-2017 07:06:22




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
[quote="Bruce (VA)"](reply to post at 18:31:19 07/20/17)
What about during operation? What caused the whole issue was one day I was mowing with my finishing mower attached and it started bogging down then it would build power back up. Then the next time I mowed, it did the same thing then finally shut down completely and that's when it was not trying to turn over at all like it had no battery power. How would I keep that from happening again during operation since I have to keep the key on to run the tractor?

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Bruce (VA)

07-20-2017 18:31:19




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
To prevent it from happening again, turn the key off. What usually happens is that the tractor stalls, runs out of gas or whatever......so it's not running.....and you don't think about turning the key off. The resistor is there to limit coil current to less than 4 amps when the tractor is RUNNING. You don't have constant current flowing because the points are opening and closing while the tractor is running. But if the points are closed and the key is on, that 4 amps will melt the coil very quickly.

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Shaddiesel

07-20-2017 18:07:45




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
Jmor what can I do to not have this problem again? What would cause to much current when there is that resistor?



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Shaddiesel

07-20-2017 18:05:04




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
I never thought of that I probably left them on.



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JMOR

07-20-2017 17:57:23




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see



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Shaddiesel

07-20-2017 17:57:22




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
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Installed the new resistor that fixed my issue for power but it still didn't start so I checked my coil and the on the bottom of the coil where the pigtail spring is was all melted in a clump and broke off. I will replace the coil and hopefully it will be fixed. I checked the points while I was down there and they are good. When I took the resistor off I noticed it was brown like it was burnt up and was falling apart. What would cause the resistor and coil to burn up?

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Shaddiesel

07-20-2017 17:49:31




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
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Installed the new resistor that fixed my issue for power but it still didn't start so I checked my coil and the on the bottom of the coil where the pigtail spring is was all melted in a clump and broke off. I will replace the coil and hopefully it will be fixed. I checked the points while I was down there and they are good. When I took the resistor off I noticed it was brown like it was burnt up and was falling apart. What would cause the resistor and coil to burn up?

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Bruce (VA)

07-20-2017 17:56:45




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-20-2017 17:49:31  
" What would cause the resistor and coil to burn up?"

You left the key on.

See tip # 38



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Bruce (VA)

07-20-2017 14:07:15




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
No, you do NOT need another resistor. You have a 12 volt coil and the diagram clearly says do not use the additional resistor.
Use your meter to check the wire between the coil and the oem ballast resistor. Check the connection at the resistor.

If you have battery voltage everywhere except on the coil side of the resistor, the resistor is defective.



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Shaddiesel

07-20-2017 06:28:38




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  


Jmor wiring diagram that I used



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Shaddiesel

07-20-2017 06:27:47




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
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I used jmor wiring diagram last summer when I rewired the tractor. I used his 3 wires to the alternator diagram and I did not use a resistor block between the coil and the resistor assembly. When key is off I only have voltage on one side when key is on voltage on both sides. I am getting voltage everywhere except that one side of the resister assembly and to the front mount coil. I'm not sure if I need a resistor block in between my resister assembly in my 12 V front mount coil I will have to look into that that might be an issue aswell.

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Bruce (VA)

07-19-2017 18:12:57




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
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And use the same JMOR wiring diagram to check the starting circuit.



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Bruce (VA)

07-19-2017 17:56:28




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
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It's not necessary to push the starter button in. The starting & ignition circuit are separate. You are testing the ignition circuit. Google 'wiring diagrams JMOR' and find the diagram for your tractor. Trace the ignition circuit with your meter. Yes, you could have a bad resistor. You could also have a bad ignition switch or a bad connection. The circuit goes from the battery to the key switch to the resistor block then to the coil. The key switch should have battery voltage on one side with the key off & both sides with the key on.
Post back with results or more questions.

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Shaddiesel

07-19-2017 17:25:56




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
Great!! Thank you



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Shaddiesel

07-19-2017 17:25:01




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
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I checked it before and after I turned the key on and with the key on while pushing the start button above the transmission and It had no voltage. I put a new one of those on the tractor last year.



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HFJ

07-19-2017 15:43:19




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
don't sweat that 12 seconds, your fuel flow is good.



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Bruce (VA)

07-19-2017 14:08:25




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
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Did you turn the key on when you checked the voltage at the resistor?



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Shaddiesel

07-19-2017 13:42:10




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
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Good afternoon,

Bruce I removed the drain plug from the carburetor, put a old pint-size mason jar inside of a oil catch pan and turned on the gas it took 2 minutes and 12 seconds to fill. I didn't have it quite under the drain plug so I lost some Gas until I was back over to The carburetor to put it directly under the drain plug. So it might of been closer to 2 minutes. After that I slid the battery over so I could get to the key ignition wires and the wires that go into my resister assembly/ignition coil and my ammeter. I used my voltage meter since that's all I have here at home, and I'm not getting any battery voltage to the left side where the wire is hooked up that then runs to my distributor coil. So I'm going to guess my resister assembly is bad?



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Bruce (VA)

07-18-2017 17:18:54




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
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You now need to check for spark and fuel.

You need to answer 2 questions before you do anything else:
With the bolt in the carb bowl removed and the gas on, will the fuel flow fill a pint jar in less than 2 minutes?

Next, get out your adjustable gap spark checker * , open the gap to 1/4", hook it up, turn the key on and crank the engine. Does the spark jump 1/4"? Post back with the answers.
And do not buy a new part for the tractor until you can answer this question: how do I know the part on the tractor is defective?

* Don't own an adjustable gap spark checker? Buy one! Not a test light! Until then, take an old plug, open the gap 1/4" ground it to the head & look for spark. It’s not the color of the spark that counts; it’s the distance it jumps.

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Shaddiesel

07-18-2017 14:44:55




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
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Returned back home, and cleaned up the terminals, cleaned the positive and negative wires and connected the battery back up. It turns over but not starting yet I will check the rest of the wires to try and narrow it down. The starter is turning over now!!, so that's a good start.



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Bruce (VA)

07-18-2017 14:13:49




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
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So far, you have eliminated the starter and battery as the cause of the problem. Move on to what's left as JMOR suggested. Cables & connections.



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JMOR

07-18-2017 11:08:45




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeCables, cable connections, cable ends, cable connections at tractor & at battery terminals...check all. Measure voltage drops between battery post & terminal, battery post to starter bolt, etc. Drops all along way, at every junction. You will find one or more that are more than 0.1 volt.



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JMOR

07-18-2017 10:14:30




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeAt 6 amps, you need well over 10 hours to fully charge a dead battery. Less if somewhat charged at beginning.



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HFJ

07-18-2017 09:49:44




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
"Even tho my volt meter read 12.9 for the battery, could the battery still be bad?"

yes. take it somewhere that can load test it.

with my charger, i can get a very good idea of the battery's health by how the ammeter acts while charging it. how long did u have your charger hooked up for? was it still showing it was charging when u disconnected it?



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shaddiesel

07-18-2017 11:01:32




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to HFJ, 07-18-2017 09:49:44  
Took it to Walmart the guy in automotives checked it 3 times. The results were 12.65V and measured 614CCA. He's going to charge the battery for me. I'm stumped on what the issue could be. It will turn over on the charger, and start when I jump it with my truck.



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shaddiesel

07-18-2017 10:08:58




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to HFJ, 07-18-2017 09:49:44  
I will take it to be load tested. The charger was hooked up for around a hour. I used my plug in 6amp battery charger that charges 12 volt batteries at 6 amps it was still charging when I went to start it.



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Shaddiesel

07-16-2017 18:19:48




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
Hi dell,

I put brand new spark plugs in it last year,Could my spark plugs be bad already? The tractor has always been garage kept. I removed the gas cap and tried starting it that way, still nothing, it's still not even trying to turn over. I will try draining all the gas I never thought of it, I just moved and bought all new gas for the tractor a couple days ago at a gas station near my new home. I haven't touched the carburetor, except when I put the new one on last month but I took it right out of the box and attached it to the tractor. I will look into the battery wires I also replaced them last summer as well but I bought them at tractor supply and they are the 4ga 12 volt. I replaced the points last summer as well, can they go bad that quickly? The tractor was running great before. This new thing just started within the last couple days being at the new house. It acts like there is no battery in it with it not wanting to even try to fire over. But the battery was bought new last summer and it's reading 12.9 volts. I will work on following the wiring and I will drain the gas.
Thank you

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Bruce (VA)

07-17-2017 05:00:08




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 18:19:48  
" I replaced the points last summer as well, can they go bad that quickly?"

If you also bought them at TSC, they sure could. See tips 66, 67 & 68.

But that isn't keeping your starter from turning the engine over when you press the starter button.

Check the voltage on both sides of the starter switch when you press the starter button. What do you see?

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Shaddiesel

07-16-2017 18:19:07




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
Hi dell,

I put brand new spark plugs in it last year,Could my spark plugs be bad already? The tractor has always been garage kept. I removed the gas cap and tried starting it that way, still nothing, it's still not even trying to turn over. I will try draining all the gas I never thought of it, I just moved and bought all new gas for the tractor a couple days ago at a gas station near my new home. I haven't touched the carburetor, except when I put the new one on last month but I took it right out of the box and attached it to the tractor. I will look into the battery wires I also replaced them last summer as well but I bought them at tractor supply and they are the 4ga 12 volt. I replaced the points last summer as well, can they go bad that quickly? The tractor was running great before. This new thing just started within the last couple days being at the new house. It acts like there is no battery in it with it not wanting to even try to fire over. But the battery was bought new last summer and it's reading 12.9 volts. I will work on following the wiring and I will drain the gas.
Thank you

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Shaddiesel

07-16-2017 17:59:19




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
[quote="CVPost-Bruce (VA)"](quoted from post at 14:32:13 07/16/17) No, you don't need a new starter.

You need to check your battery. (see tip # 49)

Then you need to check all the connections to the battery.

And please clarify this statement: " I push the ignition in ..."

What are you pushing in? If you are referring to the large starter button on top of the transmission, that has nothing to do with the ignition circuit......unless you have something farmer-ized.
75 Tips

Hi Bruce,

I tested the battery with a volt meter the battery was at 12.9 volts I was also getting the same voltage where the starter wire and starter connect, and yes the large starter button above the transmission, I couldn't remember what that was called thank you. The positive and negative wires are nice and tight and they are connected tightly to the ground of the tractor and to the back of the starter button

Thank you

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Bruce (VA)

07-16-2017 18:50:51




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 17:59:19  
" I tested the battery with a volt meter the battery was at 12.9 volts "

You can string flashlight batteries together and get 12 volts. Will that start your tractor?

Your voltage test simply tells you that your battery isn't dead. If you 11 volts or so, yea, it's under charged. Or dead. But 12.9 volts doesn't mean it's good.

To check the battery, use hydrometer or a load test.

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shaddiesel

07-18-2017 09:33:48




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Bruce (VA), 07-16-2017 18:50:51  
Hi Bruce, I hooked up a battery charger to the tractor, and after a while it tried to turn over but wasn't quite there. So I jumped it with my truck. Even tho my volt meter read 12.9 for the battery, could the battery still be bad? I bought a new Walmart battery for it last summer. I told the guy at Walmart I needed a battery for my ford 9n tractor and he recommended the ever start max, part number maxx-86. It is a 650 amp cold crank, and 800 cranking amps at 32*F. Do I need a bigger battery? A different type or maybe it's just shot already and I need to replace it. Thank you

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Dell (WA)

07-16-2017 15:02:50




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
Shaddy.........ennytime you have runnin' or startin' issues, change yer sparkies! (again?) Recommend AutoLite 437's gapped 0.025. 2nd from yer description, sounds like ya gott WATER in yer gasoline. It shuld be intuitively obvious whatcha gotta due, drain yer gas ...BUT... could be a VACUUM problem and gravity fed gas gotta BURP so it will continue to fill yer carbie. Me? I'd loosen the gas cap and see iff'n that helps. Iff' it does, I'd gitta BREATHING gas cap from a 600's series tractor. 3rd; keep yer itchy-twitchy fingers off'n them handy-dandy carbie tweek'ums. Iff'n ya diddled ennyways, fess up and I'll tell ya the EAZY way to adjust yer carbie. 4th; believe it or not, yer starter motor is generally bullet-proof ...BUT... the wiring ain't. Byte the bullet and replace yer battery-to-starter switch wire with OUGHT ("0") wire NOT the 4ga 12-volt junk. Understand the difference??? Usually yer cable corrodes under the insulation where you kent see itt. As fer yer weird 4-nipple front mount, the points (0.015) are designed to be replaced on the kitchen table (really) Just unsnapple yer capple and remove the 2-bolts and walk. After replacement, (0.015) stick the corner of $1-bill (cheap) between the points and PULL...POLISH the INVISIBLE CORROSION from between the points. Now finger insert the 2-bolts and puttchur rotor on yer dizzy. Twist the rotor until the tang fittz the slot on the camshaft. Now tight yer 2-bolts and resnapple yer capple. Simple, eh? Remember the drill is....1/3-throttle, ignition ON, 2-rumpa-rumpas on the starter motor and then a QUICK pull on the spring loaded choke knobie. Shuld gittcha started toote-sweet........HTH, Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

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Bruce (VA)

07-16-2017 14:32:13




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 Re: 9n running problems in reply to Shaddiesel, 07-16-2017 11:36:33  
No, you don't need a new starter.

You need to check your battery. (see tip # 49)

Then you need to check all the connections to the battery.

And please clarify this statement: " I push the ignition in ..."

What are you pushing in? If you are referring to the large starter button on top of the transmission, that has nothing to do with the ignition circuit......unless you have something farmer-ized.

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