What am I doing wrong with sediment bowl cork gasket?

lastcowboy32

Well-known Member
I rebuilt our 2N last summer, and it has run like a champ since. We've raked with it, tedded with it, drawn wagons with it...pulled our little ground driven spreader.

Still starts almost before you press the button. Happy as can be.

OK...so , I noticed a lot of sediment in the sediment bowl. I did have the tank removed last year for repainting. I figure it gathered some dust, and maybe flaked a little when it was dry.

No biggie, right? It was still running great.

Here's my first mistake.

I was getting the equipment ready for the first haying session, and I had the 2N hooked up to the rake; while I was greasing and adjusting the rake. So, I figure while it's next to the garage, I'll empty the sediment bowl. Easy, right? I grabbed a big funnel and an oil pan. Shut off the gas valve on the bottom of the tank. Loosened the little jam nut under the bowl. Viola! Tipped over the bowl and dumped the sediment out.

Here's where it gets dodgy.

No matter what I did, I could not get that darn cork gasket to seal up. I tried seating the bowl a couple of times. I even gave the jam nut a couple of tweaks with some slip jaw pliers, against my better judgement.

So here I am ready to rake hay, time's wasting, and my sediment bowl is sweating just ever so slightly...and there's nothing that I can do about it.

It was so hot, that the gas evaporated almost as quickly as it seeped; so I did my raking anyway; since I needed the 3000 to run the baler. I made sure to reach up and turn the gas off whenever I stopped the engine (which I had to a couple of times to help my father-in-law with the baler)

Now I'm done for a couple of rainy days and I want to figure this out for next time...so...this is what I did with the cork gasket from rebuild day 1. What did I do wrong?

During the rebuild, I bought a new cork gasket.
When I went to install it, I thought that I was told to soak it in gas overnight to let it saturate and swell a little.
Well...it swelled...like one of those friggin sponge animals that you give your kid in the bathtub.
It swelled so much, that it wouldn't fit inside the lip of the gas tank valve.
So, I took an exacto knife and trimmed to to match the lip of the sediment bowl (and the lip of the gas tank valve)
I installed it, and it worked fine with just a good finger tightening of the jam nut.

It worked fine for about a year...until my little episode yesterday.

so...

Should I expect to replace the little cork gasket whenever I remove the sediment bowl?
Should I have installed it dry in the first place to avoid trimming it?
Should I just epoxy the bowl to the valve and forget about it? (sort of kidding)

Any tips from the guys who have removed these bowls time and time again over the years?

Thanks, and I hope that all of your field work is going well.
 
I also should have asked. These things are dirt cheap. Should I just always have a couple of them stored away in the garage?

Is it always a crap shoot to get them to re-seal, if you pull the sediment bowl?
 
I wold install a new gasket dry. some like cork and some like rubber, there are thin useless rubber ones and thicker ones that work. I like cork, just make sure no pieces of cork are stuck on the glass or inside the housing.
Sometimes you just have to hold your mouth just right when installing them.
 
Ahhh...the tip about how to hold your mouth.

That's probably the problem.

Mine wasn't holding any shape at all. It was forming curse words that I can't repeat here. Nothing makes me swear more than a self-inflicted, nagging mechanical problem when you can smell dry hay in the field a hundred yards away that needs baling...
 
Cowboy, Not a mistake to clean out the sediment bowl. Your intentions are correct & good.

The gaskets can be a bit challenging at times. You may have mucked it up back when you trimmed it, and just got lucky for it to seal then. Get a new correct cork gasket (there are different sizes for different bowls). The correct one should just fit snugly inside the aluminum cover. Yes, soak it first for a few minutes. While its soaking check out your screen. It should smaller than the gasket, allowing the glass bowl to seal against the cork and the cork to seal against the aluminum without the screen interfering. Make sure the cover is clean, the glass is not chipped or cracked and try again. A good sign that it is sealing correctly is when you turn the fuel valve on. IF your carburetor bowl is full and the float has closed the needle from allowing in more gas, there will NOT be any flow through the sediment bowl, as the fuel is trapped by air. When the gas level goes down in the carburetor the fuel will begin to flow through the sediment bowl.

Your better judment is good in keeping pliers away from the bowl.

No, you shouldn't have to repalce the gasket everytime you take the bowl off.

No, you shouldn't have installed it dry.

No don't epoxy the bowl together :)

Good Luck!
 
Turn the knob off fully, remove the bowl & carefully check the groove in the top of the assembly for dirt/crud/old gasket material. Most leaks on a new gasket are caused by:

1. An incorrectly seated gasket.

2. An incorrectly seated screen.

3. A screen just slightly too big . (get out the scissors)

4. Using gasket sealer

5. Incorrect assembly of the screen/gasket

Don't forget to check the bowl rim for chips; if it's chipped, you will never get it to stop leaking. Clean or replace the screen. You can get both the cork gasket & the screen from TSC; p/n 0237144. A cork gasket will work if you soak it first in gas, but I like rubber. Check out tip # 10 at the link below for the correct NAPA part number. However, the newer ones aren't as thick as the old ones and the price is now $4 each. I've got the new ones to work, but it takes a few tries. And, at $4 for a thinner gasket, I'm not planning on using the NAPA gaskets anymore.

Look at the bowl; see the groove in the lip? That's for the screen. Put it in there & make sure it does not extend over the lip. If it does, trim it, but not too much or it will fall in the bowl. See the square hole in the screen? That because it needs it fit around the square fuel port in the top of the bowl when you assemble it. The gasket goes on next, on the lip of the bowl. Once you get it assembled on the tractor, hand tighten the thumb screw. (if it make you feel better, turn it about 1/8 turn w/ channel lock; no more, or you will distort the bail) Turn the gas on & look at the bowl.

If it starts to fill the bowl, turn the gas off & start over; it has a leak. You will know it's sealed when gas does not flow into the bowl w/ the engine off. It won't fill with the bowl securely on because the float has closed the needle valve in the carb and there is nowhere for the air in the bowl to escape. (assuming the carb bowl is full) When the engine is started the needle valve will open and the trapped air will escape through the carb vent. If you loosen the bowl, it will fill.....and leak.

Do not open the valve more than 2 or 3 turns. All the way open gets you the 1 gallon reserve & that port is usually clogged.

Tightening the knob may fix the leak there. If not, go to the hardware store, plumbing counter & get some graphite packing thread (not teflon) Pack it like a faucet.

All of the above assumes you have an OEM sediment bowl. If not, I'd get one because a lot of the off-shore replacements never work right & the gaskets are odd-sized.

I've got quite a collection of junk sediment bowls around here that were on the N's when I bought them. Nearly every type of leak on the OEM Ford sediment bowl can be repaired. My guess is the previous owners didn't know how or , as is way to often the case with these old tractors., "fixed it" by buying a piece of off-shore junk. It all depends on your supplier; I've never got a bad one from nnalert's. The stems can be replaced. (on an oem style bowl) . But, cross-threading a steel fuel fitting into an aluminum sediment bowl is fatal. Always, always finger-tighten the lines at both the carb and sediment bowl. And then use a flare or line wrench to tighten the fittings. ( see tip # 56). Bottom line: buy parts from reputable dealers & pay attention to what you are doing.

If you get the bowl to seat on a used cork gasket, go buy a Lottery ticket because it's your lucky day. Usually, but not always, you can re-use a rubber gasket.
75 Tips
 

cowboy, when i changed mine, i had to tighten the bail (what you're calling the jam nut) several times before it stopped leaking. i did it by hand. i would NOT use any kind of pliers, channelocks, vise grips, etc, to tighten it.
 
I changed most of mine to rubber gaskets. I suspect the ethanol fuel is dissolving the cork gasket or maybe the glue. After finding a new cork gasket 1 year later as a disintegrated mess I tried a rubber gasket and seems to work well.
Larry
 
The screen issue in Bruce's answer makes sense.

When I assembled everything last year during the rebuild, I was in rebuild mode. You know. Taking my time, centering everything (even though I didn't think about needing the cork extend past the screen on all sides...but it makes sense.)

Yesterday, I was just trying to clean my sediment bowl before starting the summer's haying and figuring that I would just slap the bowl back on.

I'll get some new cork gaskets, soak one for just a few minutes (my overnight soaking probably caused my initial expansion problems)

And then install more carefully... the hay is in the barn now. No need to rush.
 
When I clean the sediment bowel, I always use a new gasket. I buy them ten at a time. I put the screen in first and then the gasket. Never had any trouble sealing the bowel.
 
I have had those gaskets leak too. usually in the fall or spring when the weather changes. I stopped using cork many years ago and now use a NAPA rubber (?) gasket. I have six machines and have not had a problem in any of them for a few years now. I shall continue to keep my fingers crossed.

over tightening the bail is as bad as under tightening it.
 
Never tighten the nut with pliers. Hand tighten only. Over
tightening will warp the top. I wouldn't soak the gasket either.
 
I have a less than perfect tank so I installed an elbow and 90 degree quick shut off valve then an inline fuel filter . The filter is clear and I can see when the rust / debris is building up or there is no fuel . It takes a lot to plug a big filter . The line is steel except where the filter is and it has not leaked a drop . It is safer than telling your wife the toast is burnt again .

A 1/8" NPT petcock valve on the bottom of the carb is good for any set up . I can usually drain a BB size drop of water or two the day after a good work out . Might be condensation , I hear water does not like to pass through a gravity fed paper filter . I don't know , I just know I have not had one fuel problem since .
 
" Who's the dumarse that came up with soaking the gasket in gas before you install it"

Don't know the dumarse who came up w/ it, but I've been doing it for about 50+ years on sediment bowls. Some dumarse showed this dumarse and explained that it made a brittle gasket soft & easier to seat w/o tearing. That was on the sediment bowl to a 28 or 29 Ford in the early 60's. Some other dumarse probably showed him when the car was new.

I suspect that this isn't the only dumarse thing I've been doing for 50 years.
 
I am not a novelist that tinkers with it and calls it experience... There is no reason what so ever to soak a cork gasket in fuel. Model A are a ford tractor as far as that goes...

Good grief, how can something so simple be turned into black magic...
 
sooooo, it really doesn't matter if you soak the gasket or not, your call, when soaked it's just a little more softer.
 
(quoted from post at 11:58:27 06/14/17) sooooo, it really doesn't matter if you soak the gasket or not, your call, when soaked it's just a little more softer.

Except, from my little escapade, I found out that soaking it too long swells it up so much that it needed to be trimmed.

I'm sure that Bruce and Hobo have had many, many years of successfully installing the gasket gently soaked and dry, respectively. You see, it takes a newbie like me to come along and create a whole different problem by soaking it overnight :)

The neat freak in me would prefer to install dry, if possible; just because I absolutely hate getting gas on my hands.
 
(quoted from post at 01:34:53 06/15/17)
(quoted from post at 11:58:27 06/14/17) sooooo, it really doesn't matter if you soak the gasket or not, your call, when soaked it's just a little more softer.

Except, from my little escapade, I found out that soaking it too long swells it up so much that it needed to be trimmed.

I'm sure that Bruce and Hobo have had many, many years of successfully installing the gasket gently soaked and dry, respectively. You see, it takes a newbie like me to come along and create a whole different problem by soaking it overnight :)

The neat freak in me would prefer to install dry, if possible; just because I absolutely hate getting gas on my hands.

Basically it consist 4 parts then throw in black magic and you fool the world into thing you are a magician.

The problem is its to dang simple, the sealing surface is not in sight no magic needed other than STOP look and think about it... I will admit they can be a bugger but no magic I know of is gonna make the problem go away POOF! its gone...

Soaking the gasket is not the solution period. If it were leather then its a good possibility but its not... Every aggravating one that has gave me a fit it was the screen get out the scissors trim the screen so it does not interfere with the sealing surface. As long as the leak is at the bowl to gasket are gasket to valve a trim usually is the fix.
 
Cowboy -that was my nickname in 8th grade cuz I wore Beatle boots and sounded like a cowboy walking with spurs...

Good answers here from Bruce and Harold and one or two others. I replace the cork gasket (never use rubber) almost every time I remove glass bowl to clean/dump crud. NEVER use pliers, channel locks, or vise grips to tighten bail clamp or to open/close valve stem for that matter. That's just what I call 'hackmaster technology'. The sediment bulb assembly is made of pewter or aluminum nowadays and will warp easily if distorted. You won't really warp the glass bowl but always check for old cork and burrs on the lip when it is off. A light rotation on a flat surface with a piece of Emory Cloth or 220 sandpaper will clean it up. If it is warped, the flat surface will detect any issues too by rocking. I don't always soak the cork gasket first in gas, but when I do, it isn't overnight, only 15 minutes or so then install right away. BTW I will also soak my paper carb gaskets too same way when doing carb rebuilds. Anyway, I don't believe in any special petcocks nor in-line filters either. The three OEM filters in place work well when maintained properly. Often the leaking at the sediment bulb is the old, worn, chewed up rubber seal inside the valve stem. That can be replaced simply with a new valve stem sold separately for under $10 -no need to replace the entire sediment bulb assembly. I also make it a habit when replacing valve stems to apply a dab of LOCTITE THREAD SEALANT on the little 8-32 screw that fastens the knurled knob to the valve stem. I had lost one too many without it while working in the fields all day to finally resolve with this solution. You will never have to remove the knob so a permanent locking procedure is logical. You also get a new knob, screw, and lockwasher with the new valve stem assembly too. Next, ALWAYS use the correct steel fuel line from carb to sediment bulb. Never use rubber, plastic, nylon, or copper lines. Copper bends and cracks easily and the latter ones are just plain fire hazards if exposed to the hot manifold area. Finally, the threads on the male fuel line compression fittings and the female sediment bowl outlet port and carb inlet port are a special thread -defined as 7/16-24 UNS used on brake and fuel lines. I've worked on fellas N's with leaking issues and have discovered they tried to 'fix' the threads with the wrong tap or have cross-threaded them thus causing bad fit. A good practice is to always start a fastener, screw, or nut by hand to ensure the proper fit. You can detect by hand if you are cross-threading a fastener. I also never use thread Teflon tape on fuel lines. If it leaks, I find the true root cause and fix it properly, and never apply a 'band-aid' fix. Running any engine with a leaking fuel issue is just plain stupid.

SEDIMENT BULB VALVE STEM ASSEMBLY w/KNOB AND SCREW:
SEDVAL03.jpg

SEDIMENT BULB VALVE STEM INTERNAL WORN SEALS:
SEDVAL02.jpg

-TPD
 
I replaced the Sediment bowl on my 9n, the one I replaced was totally clogged at the stem that goes into the Tank. Guess what I tried and tried and tried to fit the dam Cork gasket on the bowl, no luck, I was very frustrated and P O'd, then I looked at the old Sediment bowl , found a used Rubber gasket, it fit and worked, no more problem, Never will I try to use a dam cork gasket. The dam cork gasket was way over sized and stuck outside the dam bowl. No more Cork for me. Bilhar



(quoted from post at 15:53:06 06/14/17) Never tighten the nut with pliers. Hand tighten only. Over
tightening will warp the top. I wouldn't soak the gasket either.
 
"Should I have installed it dry in the first place to avoid trimming it? "

I would say yes. Trimming it while it was swollen made it fit and
seal. Once off and dry, it shrank and would no longer seal.
I use cork gaskets dry. With clean surfaces, I've not had any trouble.

I've also soaked them for a few minutes, but not overnight.
Rubber ones have worked for me, but they seem to be slimy
and slip out of place if they're not dry when installing.

This one that I drug home last winter leaked quite badly.
So badly the PO tried to seal it with blue RTV. It didn't
have a screen in it at all. Fun time cleaning that carb!

49819.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 12:09:48 06/19/17)

Was that some kind of "scared straight" photo?

I promise to not neglect my sediment bowl that badly.
Nah, wasn't trying to scare anybody.
Rather, confirming that other people have trouble with them too.
 
Hobo,

Talk about complicating the issue for sure.

If I'm reusing an old gasket cause I wanted to use the tractor right away, then I might over tighten it a little but only relative to a new gasket.

So right away people start talking about NEVER using channel Locks, pliers even VISE GRIPS on the tightening wheel.

For 40 years I have had glass bowls on my Chevy fuel pumps and several sediment bowls and have yet to break or crack a bowl or "warp the mounting face" (another dramatic caution).

So once and for all, if I need a little more tight that can't be done by finger and thumb, I tweak it a LITTLE (get it, just a little) by gripping the wheel up from the bottom with side cutters. . . and only until it stops weeping. OBVIOUSLY if a [b:89a5008b56]little[/b:89a5008b56] tweak doesn't stop the leak, then it is new gasket time.

SHEESH!!! Enough with the Vise grip, channel lock, never, never fear mongering.

Hobo, like you say, it ain't rocket science if one is paying attention to details like stress.
 

my N came with a cracked sediment bowl. i'd feel safe betting the farm the guy didn't do that by hand.

maybe your hands are just weak :p
 

I have to baby my fingers to that they're in good shape for 2 hours of hand drumming every day. :p

Saw one broken bowl in my time, that wasn't mine, but don't know how it happened. All common sense and feel my friend.
 

well, neither of my bowls (2n and WD) leak. my common sense hands tightened them :)

i just hope my hands continue to be usable longer than my father's did.

it's too bad i did take a pic of my JB Welded bowl before i did my rebuild. the JB stopped the leak for 4 years flawlessly. then, when i removed the assembly to diagnose the plugged reserve, my thumb pushed the repair off like it wasn't ever adhering.
 
(quoted from post at 09:36:27 06/19/17)
(quoted from post at 12:09:48 06/19/17)

Was that some kind of "scared straight" photo?

I promise to not neglect my sediment bowl that badly.
Nah, wasn't trying to scare anybody.
Rather, confirming that other people have trouble with them too.

Understood. I was just having a little fun.
 
(quoted from post at 11:17:22 06/19/17)
well, neither of my bowls (2n and WD) leak. my common sense hands tightened them :)

i just hope my hands continue to be usable longer than my father's did.

it's too bad i did take a pic of my JB Welded bowl before i did my rebuild. the JB stopped the leak for 4 years flawlessly. then, when i removed the assembly to diagnose the plugged reserve, my thumb pushed the repair off like it wasn't ever adhering.

Some of the tightening wheels are a lot easier to grab with fingers than this one is too.

Hey, you inspired me to modify my home made shut off knob.
I got tired of bending over looking for my felt pen mark, so I just put a pointer on the knob. Brass star washer under the screw. :)

49831.jpg
 
Tall T, that "pointer" looks like some very skilled and tiny welding/brazing?

As a follow up here, this was just a common sense thing. Bruce's reply about not getting cork to seal again, after it's been removed was golden advice. I dropped by TSC and bought two of their little pre-packaged gasket and screen kits. The next time that I needed the 2N to run the tedder, I walked out to the field with a new gasket and screen....dropped the sediment bowl, threw away the old gasket and screen (actually, put them in my pocket to go in the garbage back home).... put in the new screen and cork gasket (dry...no pre-soak) making sure that the screen was centered; so that it left room around the edges.

All it took was a little bit of finger tightening on the bail, and no more gas sweating.

Bam, easy as pie, just like old Henry Ford intended.

Since I bought 2, I have a spare cork gasket and screen for next time...no more trying to re-seal the old cork. :)
 
Last Cowboy,

Thanks!
Just an old Victor Super Range torch with a #0 tip.
Used a long piece of gas welding rod, positioned it and melted some brass already there, added a bit more brass and then just nipped off the long rod.

All good for sure!
Never trying to reuse a cork ring gasket that has been removed, not needlessly soaking
and always being sure to center the screen.

Glad your fuel bowl woes are resolved for eternity. :)

213.jpg
 

So you essentially broke the rules of welding, by getting the rod stuck...on purpose; and it looks like the trick worked :)
 

i've been using the trick good housekeeping is talking about for decades. i should charge them royalties 8)
 
Just thought, but the 39-53 Master Parts Manual exploded view shows the order, valve assy, screen, gasket, bowl, in that order. Bruce says, & I'm pretty sure he is correct, that the order is valve assy, gasket, screen, bowl. The wrong order may have the likelihood of getting the screen captured between gasket & valve assy & a leak resulting?
 

Good point!
It seems to me that my glass bowl fuel pumps have a recess in the body's mating face. In that case the screen gets fitted before the gasket. In the new replacement assemblies for these tractors, with an O-ring gasket, the screen is also installed first as well.
 
Just put my stronger glasses on and the gasket on this new replacement (not OEM) is not an o ring but a typical flat neoprene.

I took the gasket out and the screen definitely sits [b:31c237993b]in a shallow recess[/b:31c237993b] and goes on before the gasket as I'm sure they always have.

The screen curls up when released so I'll have to use a small rolling pin to take the curl out and get it to lay flat.

Terry
 

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