TODAY IN HISTORY

Tim PloughNman Daley

Well-known Member
On this day, April 7, 1947, the great Henry Ford passed away at his home, Fair Lane, in Dearborn, Michigan, at the age of 83. He was truly one of the most influential, inventive, souls that ever lived and what he gave to the world will never be equaled again. Bless you Mr. Ford and thank you...


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-Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)
 
Speaking of truly great inventive souls . . . in the photo isn't Henry sitting on the 3-point tractor that the absolutely amazing Harry Ferguson invented? :)
 
(quoted from post at 16:32:26 04/07/17) Speaking of truly great inventive souls . . . in the photo isn't Henry sitting on the 3-point tractor that the absolutely amazing Harry Ferguson invented? :)

and while we're speaking of great inventors, it's a real shame that everyone knows who edison was, but few know who nikola tesla was. and, sadly, i wouldn't doubt most who recognize tesla's name now do so because of christopher nolan's inclusion of him in [i:a6bd5002c4]"The Prestige"[/i:a6bd5002c4].
 
(quoted from post at 15:12:30 04/07/17) and while we're speaking of great inventors, it's a real shame that everyone knows who edison was, but few know who nikola tesla was. and, sadly, i wouldn't doubt most who recognize tesla's name now do so because of christopher nolan's inclusion of him in [i:dea16a9526]"The Prestige"[/i:dea16a9526].

I know who Tesla was, but what is "The Prestige"? (A movie? Wikipedia says David Bowie as Tesla?? I might have to see that one.)

I suspect most people where I work knew who Tesla was long before that movie came out. 'Course, we design AC motor drives here...
 
Actually it was Ferguson team members Archie Greer, John Chambers, and Willie Sands, his engineering team, who developed the infamous 3-point hitch hydraulic lift. Ferguson only had a small input in it and of course the patent rights in his name. In November 1938 Harry came to Dearborn with the Ferguson Black Tractor s/n 722 to demonstrate his 3-pt lift to Henry Ford and hence the famous handshake agreement was struck. The details were only privy to the two men and nobody to this day knows exactly what those details were, except the two, but the rest of us knew that Henry Ford would manufacture the tractor and Harry Ferguson would be the distributer of it and the implements. The Ferguson-Brown tractor was a piece of junk and it took the Ford Engineers less than 7 months to come up with a better designed tractor and improvements on the 3-point system and had it production - a feat that was never nor will ever be matched again. Both men made out on the deal and the world was a whole lot better because of it. Neither could have done it without the other.

Tim
 
Nickoli Tesla was the father of AC current along with wireless communications and several other ideas that are now SOP. He was ripped off by Westinghouse, discredited by Edison, and very good friend with Mark Twain. he invested his own personal wealth in his projects. Edison and others tried to tell the world that AC electricity was very dangerous, that his (Edison's) DC way was best, but Tesla proved them all wrong.

If one could time travel, I have always said the three men I'd like to go back and talk with would be Tesla, Sorenson, and Archie Greer.

Tim
 
(quoted from post at 13:31:57 04/07/17) On this day, April 7, 1947, the great Henry Ford passed away at his home, Fair Lane, in Dearborn, Michigan, at the age of 83. He was truly one of the most influential, inventive, souls that ever lived and what he gave to the world will never be equaled again. Bless you Mr. Ford and thank you...

One of my favorite quotes is attributed to Henry Ford:

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't - you're right" Henry Ford
 
(quoted from post at 15:25:11 04/07/17) don't forget he was a anti-Semite and racist to boot. but all in all a really good guy.

Steve,

Thanks for the chuckle!
Sure Ford was the one who dishonored the handshake trust that Harry had placed in him, essentially stealing the partnership along with Harry's legal patent rights, forcing Harry to fight tooth and nail in court for some financial recompense for the injustice done to him, but ya, Ford was a benevolent genius with a heart of gold.
 
While I was reading a certain book about Harry & Henry it showed Harry had as much if not more to do with the design of the Ford Ferguson than what Henry did. It seems as Henry wanted the tractors (as I best remember) 4 inches longer than Harry wanted. After arguing back & forth, one day Henry finally asked why don't I want these tractors 4 inches longer? Harry says do you have a lot of money to ship them? Henry asked what are you trying to say? Harry said if you make them your length you can get four tractors on a flatbed rail car, make them my length and then you can get five, that is like shipping one free. Harry had checked out many angles ahead of time where as Henry I think he just did what he thought would work. It was not Henry that broke the handshake agreement it was his grandson as Henry had turned things in the tractor plant over to him.
 

Richard,

I'd forgotten that it was Ford's son that broke the agreement.

I could be wrong but here's how I see it:
Ford basically writes Ferguson right out of the "unwritten" partnership agreement. So Harry rightly concludes, "If I'm no longer a partner, and Ford has no intention of honestly buying me out, then he has no rights to continue to use my patents."

Ford's engineers probably advised, "Make out in court like you are being fair and conciliatory by giving up Harry's PTO powered hydraulic pump patent, so as to cleverly get to keep Harry's 3-point and draft control." Sorenson or whoever tells Ford they'd be better off with live hydraulics anyway, so there won't be any real loss or even a trade off there.
 
That part maybe correct but it was Harry and his team that had to design all of the implements that would be used on these tractors.
 
" a really good guy " does NOT apply. Yes, an anti Semite, and a racist and did not pay his employees a fair wage. And he thought he was the hand of god. Fah. True his engineers brought mass production online, but they got no credit,
 
Tall T I have forgotten some of what I read about 8 years ago so I can't argue with anyone at this time. I do want to keep Harry in good standing where he belongs and not let others put him down. I would have to agree to what you said.
 
[/quote]

Ah so!

My thinking is that if Henry was still alive and well at the time, then Henry was complicit, and more than just "guilty by association" in the dishonoring of the agreement and wholesale theft of the 3-point/Draft system.

Tractor styling wise, do the Fergusons look like N's or do all the N's look like Fergusons -- minus Harry's hinged engine covers and OHVs of course? :)

T
 
Ferguson kept the patent for the radius rods connected to the outer parts of the front axle. Ford
had to brace the center section. However, the bosses were still forged into the axle extensions. Presumably, the owner could have them milled out and use them the same way as Fergusons. The
patent ran out in the 1960s. Don't know if owners noticed any practical problem.
 
(quoted from post at 19:35:30 04/07/17) Ferguson kept the patent for the radius rods connected to the outer parts of the front axle. Ford
had to brace the center section. However, the bosses were still forged into the axle extensions. Presumably, the owner could have them milled out and use them the same way as Fergusons. The
patent ran out in the 1960s. Don't know if owners noticed any practical problem.



CD,

it gets more interesting all the time.
It was already a Ferguson from the three point/Draft
all the way to the back of the tranny!

Were the transmissions the same as in the Ferguson forerunner?

Enter the Jubilee

After the dust of industrial sabotage had died down
And the battle of the Industrialist versus Farmer Ferguson's handshake was done . . .
Ford's team did a bang up, catch up job on my Jubilee
introducing a great new body style to stand the test of time . . .only thing missing, a hinged hood.
And thanks to more Inspiration from Fergie and IHC, etc.,
The Jube gets overdue OHV
Making an even stronger case for a hinged hood.

Father to Grandson seem to have fallen in
with the founding fathers of Globalism
becoming part of the Industrial Complex Eisenhour & JFK warned about.

But man! That is the most incredibly powerful story of a broken Trust and the subsequent injustices that reflect the dark nature of the violation, that I've ever heard.

A huge tractor empire to be shared [i:866b5ad534]equally[/i:866b5ad534]
each half of a partnership sealed with a handshake
but as fate would have it . . .

Just like the Massey Ferguson
The N's could have been called, Ford Ferguson 8N, Ford Ferguson 2N
Credit where credit is definitely due
since the absolutely inspired inventive mind of Ferguson
MADE the Ford tractor all that it is
with genius, down to earth implements to match.
That contribution can hardly be bought, or bought off for several million,
but it was.

Ford, Ferguson System ? Not enough!
When you peel away the fame and fortune
the N's could have truly all been called, Ferguson Fords

Hey Mr. farmer
what have you got?
I got a Ferguson Ford 8N".
Believe it or not. :)

No doubt God has forgiven Henry
So rest in peace Mr. Ford.
 
There was no dishonoring. Their 'agreement' stipulated that either party could terminate the agreement at any time for any reason. Ferguson was going behind Fords' back trying to secure suppliers and builders of his own tractor. He took Ford blueprints, blotted out any signs of a Ford name, and shopped them around. The big difference between the Ford and the Ferguson tractors was that Ferguson was now able to build the tractor the way he originally wanted the 9N to be built. That is with a 4-speed transmission and overhead valve design. Otherwise it isn't just s coincidence the TE and TO models looked like 9N clones even right down to the same paint color.

Tim
 
Yeah, by the time the suit was over, Ford had already improved on the pump design anyway. Ford did want to buy Ferguson out from the beginning. He told him he didn't have enough money. Henry was moving on to other projects, war time stuff, airplanes, etc because that's the way he was. He had accomplished his world tractor idea. Plus his health was failing. The 9N tractor was never scrutinized for cost control as it was always housed under the car and truck manufacturing umbrella. Not til Edsel was in semi-control did they start to think about why Ferguson was making all the money and Ford was losing money. Then upon Edsels' death in 1943, when his young son Henry Ford II (the Deuce) was called upon to take the helm, did they really start to look into costs. First step was to move tractor production over to the vacant Highland Park Plant. It was Henry II's first order of business to dissolve the partnership.

Tim
 
The few implements that Ferguson brought over with him were basically junk and had to be redesigned by the Ford staff. Understand Ford was the world leader at the time with the huge Rouge Complex, best engineers, best manufacturing machines, and best production techniques. Ferguson procured suppliers to build the implements with the plow being the only one ever built at the Rouge Plant with the steel being cast right there and some parts being supplied by outside vendors. Like the late, great, Harold Brock said, Ferguson's implements (and some tractor parts) were I-beam steel and angle iron and wouldn't hold up on American farms.

Tim
 
Tim,

Thanks for the historical correction, revision and patience regarding my obviously limited understanding of it all. I'll be copying your entries to a saved file.

Cheers,
T
 

Mr. Stembridge!

Just read your whole story. Great job and with photos I hadn't seen an any of my 4 ford books -- like the two of them at the table with tractor in between. Did you publish that historical account in book form?

I finally understand what your Boomer is. I'm surprised that it wasn't a bigger seller. What a great looking and no doubt great working tractor!

Thanks,
Terry
 
Late to the party, yes it was the deuce (Henry II) who broke the agreement, but also understand the condition Ford Motor Company was in in the late 40's, some reports have the entire Ford organization making less than a few thousand dollars profit. At that time Ford was the 3rd largest manufacturer (they had fallen behind Chrysler) and old Hank I had been very sick for a while, he believed that the reason Ford Motor Company wasn't making money was because they weren't making Model T's and some reports have him getting ready to scrap the modern cars and re-instate Model T production. The truth is they were losing money on every tractor and they couldn't afford to continue to do that much longer. A partnership is doomed when one party is losing money and the other is making money. Henry I wasn't the easiest person to get along with and Harry probably found that out too late. I also hear old Harry was shopping around trying to get the ability to make Ferguson tractors, tractors they way he wanted to make them without Henry I's input and eccentricities (overhead valves, hood hinges, 4 speed or more transmissions....) so a saint he wasn't either. By the way how much time was left on the 3 point patent in '48 when the agreement was broken? Ford could of played the game that Remington played in the 1800's, Sam Colt held the patent on the revolver and wouldn't license it. Remington made and end run around Colt and got patents on several improvements to the revolver, as soon as Colt's patent expired Remington was on the market with new and improved revolvers that Colt couldn't make with out infringing on Remington's patents.
 
Mr Wiseacre, :)

I like what Ford did with the rounded front sheet metal of the N's,
like the gracefully curvy Ford cars of the era.

Then the Jubilee style came along to reflect the late 40's and 50's Ford car grilles, bumper-ettes and hood style.

This Ferguson sheet metal has more of a squarish look more akin to old English cars. The guy didn't want to sell it so i kept looking and found the Jubilee.

47907.jpg
 

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