8N Side Mount Distributor Question

Duttonan

New User
Hi, I recently bought an 8N. We did have it running (not that good, and hard to start) when I purchased, but the flywheel was worn in one spot. It has been converter to 12V, and running the flamethrower coil with internal 3 Ohm resistance (no ballast resistor), point set to 0.025" and running AL437 plugs.

We put the ring gear on, and have tractor back together, but something seems strange on timing. It seems we have a good spark (at least on cylinder 1). When trying to find TDC of crank and align with timing numbers, it seems to walk around. Some people say there is two sets of timing numbers on flywheel. I only remember seeing one set on my flywheel, but I could have not been paying attention. Either way, if you turn the flywheel with a pry bar CCW, it doesnt seem to spin the rotor. Is this ok or normal? Its almost like we would get timing close, but then if we moved flywheel manually (not engaging the starter), we would adjust timing..

That being said, there isant really any conceivable play in the distributor shaft (side to side, or up/down). And with the cap off, and kicking the starter, the rotor spins fine. I should mention, all cylinders have 120-125 psi compression. The N I believe is in the 50's... I cannot read the first number, but its X65,xxx. Maybe someone can help me find the year of this tractor while we are at it.

Thanks!!

Andy
 
(quoted from post at 05:08:59 03/29/17) Hi, I recently bought an 8N. We did have it running (not that good, and hard to start) when I purchased, but the flywheel was worn in one spot. It has been converter to 12V, and running the flamethrower coil with internal 3 Ohm resistance (no ballast resistor), point set to 0.025" and running AL437 plugs.

We put the ring gear on, and have tractor back together, but something seems strange on timing. It seems we have a good spark (at least on cylinder 1). When trying to find TDC of crank and align with timing numbers, it seems to walk around. Some people say there is two sets of timing numbers on flywheel. I only remember seeing one set on my flywheel, but I could have not been paying attention. Either way, if you turn the flywheel with a pry bar CCW, it doesnt seem to spin the rotor. Is this ok or normal? Its almost like we would get timing close, but then if we moved flywheel manually (not engaging the starter), we would adjust timing..

That being said, there isant really any conceivable play in the distributor shaft (side to side, or up/down). And with the cap off, and kicking the starter, the rotor spins fine. I should mention, all cylinders have 120-125 psi compression. The N I believe is in the 50's... I cannot read the first number, but its X65,xxx. Maybe someone can help me find the year of this tractor while we are at it.

Thanks!!

Andy

Remove the #1 spark plug. (removing all of them makes the job a bit easier) Ignition off, place your thumb over the #1 spark plug hole and crank slowly until compression is felt. Continue to crank the engine until you see the timing mark, 0* (top dead center) on the flywheel through the timing hole in the right side of the bell housing. Use chalk on the flywheel to exactly align the 4 degree mark with the pointer. Loosen the distributor hold down bolt. Rotate the distributor housing counter clockwise until the points are closed. Put the cap on & double check the plug wires, 1-2-4-3, CCW. Then, remove the primary wire from the side of the distributor (or at the coil, whichever is easier) Put one lead of your VOM (set on resistance) on the stud on the side of the distributor & the other on the block or other good ground. Slowly turn the distributor. The needle will move as the points close & then open. Find the exact spot just as the points open & then tighten down the distributor.

Now check your work (and the dynamic timing) w/ a light.

If it won't idle below 500 rpm (400 is better) don't bother w/ a light.

If it idles ok, make 3 marks w/ chalk or white paint on the flywheel:

4*
10*
17*

Start the engine.

At idle, the light should flash & the marker should line up exactly at 4* if you did the static timing correctly.

If not, loosen the distributor & turn it until the marks line up. It should take very little adjustment.

Once you've got that done, increase the engine speed to 1200 rpms. The light should flash & the marker should line up w/ the 10* mark. Then, increase the rpms to 2000 & look for the marker to align w/ the 17* mark.

Close counts on the advanced timing. A degree or 2 either way is ok. But, no movement or 5* or more off means you have an advance weight problem. You don't adjust the distributor to fix that.
 

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the info. I will absolutely go through that procedure. Out of curiosity, do you know if it is normal that I can turn flywheel through the peep with a prybar, and the distributor rotor does not move? If this is normal, I will quit worrying about it, and go through static timing procedure as mentioned.

Thanks

Andy
 
(quoted from post at 07:12:08 03/29/17)
Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the info. I will absolutely go through that procedure. Out of curiosity, do you know if it is normal that I can turn flywheel through the peep with a prybar, and the distributor rotor does not move? If this is normal, I will quit worrying about it, and go through static timing procedure as mentioned.

Thanks

Andy

the marks are on the flywheel, if when you move the teeth and the marks do not move, you have a loose ring gear. If you installed the ing gear correctly it should be nice and tight.
 
I guess I should have been more clear. The ring gear is tight to the flywheel. I can push the flywheel CCW by using prybar in the peep hole.

But, I guess I'm saying with the distributor cap off, and if I move flywheel CCW (manually, with a screwdriver), the distributor rotor does not spin. However, If I hit the starter button, the the flywheel spins, and so does the distributor rotor. Seems really weird to me.
 
(quoted from post at 11:45:51 03/29/17) I guess I should have been more clear. The ring gear is tight to the flywheel. I can push the flywheel CCW by using prybar in the peep hole.

But, I guess I'm saying with the distributor cap off, and if I move flywheel CCW (manually, with a screwdriver), the distributor rotor does not spin. However, If I hit the starter button, the the flywheel spins, and so does the distributor rotor. Seems really weird to me.
ell, how far are you rotating it with the pry bar? The old thing is going to have some wear/slop, so you may only be taking up the slack. Turn it more!
 

Yea, I figured that. Probably the furthest I displaced the flywheel is about 1/4 of a full rotation trying to see the rotor even try to move. When I kept going and didnt see any movement in rotor, I figured something was up.

But then again like I said, I can hit the starter button and it moves every time the flywheel moves without hesitation.
 
(quoted from post at 12:02:51 03/29/17)
Yea, I figured that. Probably the furthest I displaced the flywheel is about 1/4 of a full rotation trying to see the rotor even try to move. When I kept going and didnt see any movement in rotor, I figured something was up.

But then again like I said, I can hit the starter button and it moves every time the flywheel moves without hesitation.
There are 134 teeth, so if you rotated it 1/4 turn (~34 teeth) then I say that there is not that much slop from wear! Put paint on a ring gear tooth, paint on flywheel. Turn several attempts with starter & see if those paint marks still line up. 2¢ says they won't.
 
Unfortunatly, I think it will be lined up still, but I will give it a try when I get home from work. When we put the ring gear back on, there was slop in the new ring gear. Made the decision (against most peoples best judgement), to weld ring gear to flywheel. That being said, unless the welds broke (which I dont think they have because when I hit the starter, the rotor spins) I think the ring gear is fitted to flywheel.

I just figured someone on here might know of some retainer spring or some wear out mechanism in the distributor drive that could be failing. Or again, this might be normal, and I figured someone on this thread would know the answer.
 
There is an answer. Problem is in finding it. There is no reason that the 'method' of turning the flywheel results in distributor rotation or failure to rotate. A quarter turn of flywheel is just 1/8 th turn of rotor.
 
(quoted from post at 10:51:50 03/29/17) There is an answer. Problem is in finding it. There is no reason that the 'method' of turning the flywheel results in distributor rotation or failure to rotate. A quarter turn of flywheel is just 1/8 th turn of rotor.

OK sorry for the delayed response, I got caught up with some family manners. So I've checked and the flywheel and distributor rotor do move together. I think I wasnt manually turning the flywheel far enough. I think the problem is spark related. I bought a decent spark gap tool and set it to 1/4", and in not getting spark. I pull it in to maybe 1/8" and I get spark on cylinder 1, but not consistent at that. Likewise for other cylinders. I got new wires, distributor cap, condensor, point and coil (3 ohm flamethrower and bypassed ballast resistor). So I'm wondering If I have a poor ground or wiring?

I should also mention I jumped out the ignition switch (and pulled battery terminal off to make sure I didnt burn up coil) and also bypassed the ammeter. About the only thing in line is the starter button (oh I should mention I bought a new starter solenoid aswell). I guess I thought I'd see if anyone had ideas to what else could cause a weak spark. I should mention the tractor ran before I started fiddling with it (shame on me). I decided while I was doing the ring gear and clutch, I'd go ahead and bring all the other wearout parts up to snuff.

Thanks!

Andy
 
(quoted from post at 20:17:05 04/06/17) New points, gapped at 25 thousands and cleaned afterwards?

Yes, I double checked the points, and they are new. Gapped at 25 tho. Now, you say cleaned afterwards. What would you use to clean the surface. I did leave the key on one night and I was worried it may have toasted the coil, or burnt up the point. I looked at the points and they looked fine, but it wouldnt hurt to "clean" them anyways. Also, I tried new coil and coil that was previously in tractor (when it ran), and neither provide the spark I'm looking for, however the new coil seems be be better than the original.
 
I clean them with electrical contact cleaner.
They can be cleaned/burnished with card stock, a piece of
brown paper bag or as Dell likes to recommend, a dollar bill.
 

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