Cylinder liners

Well I machined a knock out plug, tried to knock them at room temp with a 3 lb hammer no good, tried to heat them red hot and slow cool no good, tried filling them with dry ice and alcohol no good. Finally put the block in the VBM and bored out all but .010 and peeled them out with a screwdriver. NOW I am getting ready to order pistons and liners what do you guys suggest .040 or .090 liners.

Skip,All you would of had to do was weld a couple beads down the inside of them and you can slide them out with your hand after they cool.You just don't want to burn through them,a wire welder works the best.The weld shrinks them down a lot.

Skip Oh,have the block bored out for the .090 sleeves.I thought it already had .090s in it.

While I was working my way through college I worked as a welder in a shipyard and I must have shrunk 5,000 boiler tubes. They would cut the tubes off outside the steam drum with a cutting torch then I would drag a 6010 up the inside the tube stub on 3 sides and then I would squirt cold water inside the tube then the boilermaker would use an air hammer to knock the tube stub out. I would climb inside the steam drum and shrink 100 then I would climb out and the boilermaker would climb in. They finally made me a pipe welder right before I graduated. I guess I got lucky I never burned through a one.

It had .090 s in it, I haven't looked I thought you could use either one without boring the block. The .090 would just use a little smaller piston of accommodate the thicker sleeve.

Skip No the pistons are the same size for both the .040 and the .090 sleeves.The difference is in the OD of the sleeves.If your block had .090 sleeves in it before then that is what you need to order.

Thanks Den I haven't checked the bores yet I checked the old sleeves and there was .060 left on the liners and it had .030 pistons so I just figured it had .090 liners

Do you need to hone the new liners to fit the new pistons or are they close after you press them in.

i replaced sleeves and pistons last winter, was quite easy. i put the sleeves in my chest freezer overnight, and they dropped right in - i think i had to encourage one of them with a piece of wood. no honing was needed.

HFJ,

I wouldn't think new sleeves would have to be "bored" for fit
and that as far as "honing" would apply to a cylinder wall or sleeve, that would be just to cut the glaze . . .

So my question to you is:
Did you have to de-glaze your new sleeve walls before you finally installed the pistons, or do they come with the walls already crosshatched?

Thanks,
T

The new sleeves aren't installed yet, my question was do they change dimensionally after they are pressed in. What a new sleeve measures in your hand may not be the same size once it has been compressed into the block

yes, i know what honing is, my post was poorly worded. i was endeavoring to reply to two separate issues. the first part was about the outside of the sleeves, the second was referring to the inside.

but, since u brought it up, no boring was required either

HFJ

If you are talkin' ta me . . .
I wasn't referring to anything you said. It was skip who mentioned "honing" the sleeves.

I just wanted to ask you if you had to crosshatch your new sleeve walls for your new rings or if they came ring-ready.

I've prepped quite a few block cylinders but never dealt with sleeves.

HFJ

Sorry . . . Probably a dumb question now that I think about it.

No doubt the sleeve's inner wall is like a freshly "bored" cylinder; i.e., no de-glazing/crosshatching (honing) required for new rings to seat.

but a Chinese made sleeve . . . ya never know?

(quoted from post at 02:53:42 03/30/17) The new sleeves aren't installed yet, my question was do they change dimensionally after they are pressed in. What a new sleeve measures in your hand may not be the same size once it has been compressed into the block

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Out of the box they are not usually round. You have to take 9-12 OD or ID measurements along and around the sleeve and average them to get a reliable number.

Based on those measurements the sleeve to bore interference should be on the order of .0005/.0015 prior to installation. You should not see any significant change in the bore of the sleeve after installation although the bore should now have .001 or less out of round and taper.

Most replacement sleeves for the flathead come pre-sized and pre-finished but you should check the piston to bore fit after installation to verify clearances.

Like building any other engine - to do a quality job you have to check the fit of all new parts after installation to identify and correct any unwanted stack-up of manufacturing and machining tolerances.

TOH

(quoted from post at 22:48:23 03/29/17) Thanks Den I haven't checked the bores yet I checked the old sleeves and there was .060 left on the liners and it had .030 pistons so I just figured it had .090 liners

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I missed this post the first time around. Someone has been modifying things so be very careful. I have had a couple customers that discovered after the fact that what they thought were .090 sleeves were in fact custom "universal" sleeves probably installed by a professional engine shop. Before buying anything measure the OD of the old sleeves to verify size. An OEM .090 wall sleeve should measure 3.3675/3.3685. If it isn't VERY close to that something is up.

TOH

My Dad was a Ford dealer for years.
As I remember there were two different sized sleeves. So find out both sizes before making decisions.
Good Luck
Jim

Yes, what TOH says. I too, have found 'customized' cylinder sleeves in some tractors. Most likely done by a hackmaster who didn't know what he was doing. See post below "Year of 8N" about similar topic regarding cylinder sleeves. Original Ford cars, trucks, and tractors used steel cylinder sleeves, designated in the hand-stamped serial number by a STAR (*) symbol before and after the number. Later on, mid-8N production, they went to cast iron sleeves and they were now defined by a diamond <> symbol in the s/n. That being said, doesn't mean the engine still has steel sleeves. Chances are very good an old 60-70+ year old engine block has been rebuilt at least once, but not all have been. Sleeves may have been changed to the cast iron sleeves and the block could have been bored out to accept the larger OD sleeves. You have the block open now so measure the ID of the cylinder bores and the OD of the old sleeves to determine what you have. Like I said, if you had old original steel sleeves you will need the block bored for the new larger cast iron sleeves. If in doubt, take old sleeves, and if possible the block too, to a local machine shop/engine shop and have them measure it. Don't guess as to what new parts you should buy until all the facts are in. Same holds true for new bearings -don't buy until you know what the new crank size has been ground to. Did you get the block boiled out? Always a must when rebuilding so there's no hiccups when new parts are installed like plugged oil and/or water passages. Keep us posted...

[i:654c4848f0][b:654c4848f0]<font size="4">Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)</font>[/b:654c4848f0][/i:654c4848f0]<table width="100" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" bordercolor="#000000"><tr><td height="25" colspan="2" bgcolor="#CC0000"></td></tr><tr><td> </td><td></td></tr></table>

There wasn't enough of the old sleeves to get a good OD measurement of them. I got tired of trying to knock them out so I just put the block in the VBM and bored them out until I had about .010 left and I just folded them over and knocked them out from there so they were just folded up. I always vat my blocks before I start to get rid of the old oil and grease off and then after everything is done I will steam clean it before I begin to build it. I was just wondering if the sleeves changed dimensionally after they were pressed in the block and needed to be honed to fit the piston. I ll just put the sleeves in a bucket of alcohol with a big chunk of dry ice for an hour or two and they will fall right in. That's how I install aircraft landing gear bushings all the time. I looked at the liner lip protruding just inside the bottom of the block and they were .060 at a .030 over piston that means they must have been .090 liners. Hopefully I will have more time this weekend to get out to the shop and get some good measurements

(quoted from post at 19:38:12 03/30/17) There wasn't enough of the old sleeves to get a good OD measurement of them. I got tired of trying to knock them out so I just put the block in the VBM and bored them out until I had about .010 left and I just folded them over and knocked them out from there so they were just folded up. I always vat my blocks before I start to get rid of the old oil and grease off and then after everything is done I will steam clean it before I begin to build it. I was just wondering if the sleeves changed dimensionally after they were pressed in the block and needed to be honed to fit the piston. I ll just put the sleeves in a bucket of alcohol with a big chunk of dry ice for an hour or two and they will fall right in. That's how I install aircraft landing gear bushings all the time. I looked at the liner lip protruding just inside the bottom of the block and they were .060 at a .030 over piston that means they must have been .090 liners. Hopefully I will have more time this weekend to get out to the shop and get some good measurements

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Why guess? Measure the bore in the block. If you have a boring mill in your shop seems likely you have a dial bore gauge handy....

TOH

I do when I have time but I have so many other things going on I actually have to shut the door and move my truck around back to get left alone. I refuse to work on anything when people are there talking to me. If I am working on something and someone walks in to visit or shoot the breeze I stop what I am doing right then

We have already told you to measure the inside cylinder bores with dial calipers or better yet a dial bore gage. If you have access toe a CNC Boring Mill, or better yet a CNC VMC or HMC, then surely there must be dial bore gages around -QC Department usually stores them. Cylinder bore size should be 3-3/16" unless someone has rebored out. A local decent machine shop and/or engine shop has the right equipment too.

Tim