8N OIL CHANGE

Oil drain was normal but when I added 5+ quarts to the oil filler with the rest of the 6th quart added to the new filter; nothing shows on the dip stick. I then tried checking the quantity with a stiff wire and got a little oil on the bottom. I added another full quart of oil (7 quarts total) but still nothing shows on the dip stick. I have owned this little tractor over 20 years but it hasn't been started in about six years due a surgery back then. It always ran great before and never had a problem adding oil. Is there any place the oil may be going between the filler and the oil pan? Pan appears to be original but were there pans that held 8-10 quarts back then? Never had this problem before but has been so long and I can't remember how many quarts it held. I'm afraid to try to start it until I know where the oil is, or if possibly she is still a couple quarts short. Thank you for any help.....

Gocarz,Are you sure it has the proper length dipstick or proper length dipstick tube in the engine.Check the hydraulic dipstick which is a shorter one than the engine stick to be sure someone hasn't swapped them.^ quarts with the filter and it should be full.The oil pan capacity is all the same on all 9N,2N,8Ns.I don't have a dipstick handy to measure the length right now.

gocarz........ALL N-tractors (9N-2N-8N) hold 6-qts. Donna mucka 'round pre-filling yer oil filter canaster 'cuz thattza good way to make'er LEAK. While I applaud yer industry and changing oil izza good thing, yer gonna have more problems onna tractor that ain't run in 6-yrs. Yer carbie is chief problem with dried out gaskets. Then theres todays additive filled gasoline that turns into varnish. So iff'n ya wanna pre-lube yer engine bearings, just crank away with the ignition key switch OFF and watch yer mechanical oil pressure meter show some pressure. Simple, eh? ........HTH, oily Dell

NEVER EVER OVERFILL beyond what capacity specifies for. Dumb question here, but did you put the oil drain plug back onto the oil pan with a new gasket? Any signs of leaking there? Did you remove the old oil filter and clean out the canister first before installing new oil filter? Did you close the canister drain petcock? Any signs of leaking at the brass junction lines? I always fill the canister with ne filter about 2/3 way with new fresh oil, clamp lid on -don't overtighten and be sure you have th correct gasket under lid as well as the little fibre washer under clamp bolt head. Pour oil slow in the filler neck; sometimes you get backwash and lose some. Only fill with 3 quarts. Start engine, observe oil pressure gauge shows -give it a few seconds as pressure build s up and it reacts. Walk around tractor and look for any signs of leaking, especially at the oil canister. After a good 5-10 minutes of running and no signs of leaks, shut down engine, let cool a bit then add the rest of the oil as recommended. Fire it over, run til hot, shut down and let oil drain into pan before attempting to read dipstick again. Just curios that you filled the engine oil thru the filler neck, not thru the tranny cover filler by the shifter lever, right? Just checking all bases here...


[i:654c4848f0][b:654c4848f0]<font size="4">Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)</font>[/b:654c4848f0][/i:654c4848f0]<table width="100" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" bordercolor="#000000"><tr><td height="25" colspan="2" bgcolor="#CC0000"></td></tr><tr><td> </td><td></td></tr></table>

Do you have the correct dipstick?

Dean

Clean out your waste oil drain pan. Because you're going to need to drain all of those 7 quarts out and you don't want to contaminate that new oil with crap in the waste oil pan. Over filling the engine oil pan will cause those rope seals to sit in oil and they won't seal for long like that.

You do not need to put any oil in the oil filter canister.

And use the correct dipstick.
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gocarz, I will give you credit for enough smarts to see a pool of oil on the ground, you have eliminated the possibility of an incorrect dipstick by using the wire, and we know that you don't want to be overfilled because you posted this. I have never seen this but I was told once of an oil pan when removed was full of sludge with just a path for the crank and rods, and a little pathway to the oil pump intake screen. If you have a lot of sludge you could have a hole in it for the dipstick, but no way for the oil to get into it and show on your stick. I suggest dropping the pan and checking it out.

Hey Bruce, yeah, filling the canister with oil is not required, but I've found I get immediate pressure readings when I do. Once the pump does its job and gets the new oil circulating and the gauge comes up, usually takes about only 5 seconds or less, but I just do that out of habit. I once had a problem with the 01A6749 fibre washer under the lid bolt leaking. Actually it was a cheap copper one I was given at my local Kubota dealer. Anyway, I did my oil change and installed the new copper gasket/washer and when I turned engine over, everything looked normal then all of a sudden my gauge needle began dropping. WTF, so I look around and spot oil spewing out over the top lid. I shut down the engine and try to remedy the problem. Steel washers won't work either. I ended up making one out of rubber and cork and with the dual seal it held until I discovered that CNH sells the correct washer/gasket, p/n 01A6749A -see pix. I stocked up on several because you never know when they will discontinue an item. After that I had no problems with leaks at the lid clamp bolt. Back 15-20 years ago when you bought a new oil filter you always go the large rubber under lid gasket AND the smaller fibre gasket for the lid clamp bolt. Now you're lucky if you get the large one in the box with a new filter. I usually use FRAM C3P; BALDWIN; or basic stocked ones from local CNH dealer, Carpenter, STEINERS, or nnalert.

N-SERIES OIL FILTER HOUSING LID CLAMP BOLT GASKET:

(quoted from post at 07:25:11 03/12/17)
gocarz, I will give you credit for enough smarts to see a pool of oil on the ground, you have eliminated the possibility of an incorrect dipstick by using the wire, and we know that you don't want to be overfilled because you posted this. I have never seen this but I was told once of an oil pan when removed was full of sludge with just a path for the crank and rods, and a little pathway to the oil pump intake screen. If you have a lot of sludge you could have a hole in it for the dipstick, but no way for the oil to get into it and show on your stick. I suggest dropping the pan and checking it out.

Click to expand...

If there is so much sludge in that oil pan, shouldn't he be able to reach in the oil drain hole and feel it with his fingers?

Did you add the oil to the engine oil filler or maybe the trans oil filler ?

Don't be insulted, but did you put the oil in the engine or the transmission? I had a cousin do that once!

Den N,
Thank you so much as you perfectly analyzed the switched dipstick problem. They were switched before I bought the tractor and I would never have figured that out. I still can't tell from pictures that the longer one belongs to the engine and nothing I've seen written tells that except for your help. Although I picked up another job skill during Vietnam, I'd previously changed oil in Model A's to Peterbilts but this is my first tractor and it really had me stumped. I have changed fluids in both ends before but never at the same time and just used the stick to tell me when each was full. Obviously has been too much in the front and not enough in the back but fortunately I have only put about 50 hours on her in the last twenty years after a paint job in 1997. Sort of like Bruce who wrote the 75 points, my grandpa, also a VA farmer preferred his Mule for plowing. The mule died in the mid 50s and he finally got a tractor, an 8N Ford, and the reason I have one today. Now, if I can just get some juice through the points, should be able to get her going again. Thanks again to you, and the internet................

" Now, if I can just get some juice through the points"

That's easy.

6v or 12v?

Front or side distributor?

Do you have battery voltage to the coil?

I was in I Corps, (Chu Lai) 5th SF, 1969. You?

68-69 Bien Hoa, chopper pilot. Flew mostly 9th ID, 25th ARVN Div and SF Teams out of Song Be/Tay Ninh area. I switched to 12v many years ago and has a front mount dist. I spent so much time trying to figure out where my oil was going that have not started TS electrical, hopefully tomorrow. I see Petronix now offers an electronic conversion to replace the points. Is this a good thing to do on a tractor that is run very little? It would not start when I bought it but I had it running very good for over 15 years before letting it sit for so long. I did run it out of gas before parking and so far just a little weeping out of the carb. I have a 5' bush hog that has kept a couple of lots cleared and just having it around continues to bring back memories of Grandpa in the 50s and how hard farm life was back then and even earlier days. Young grandsons have no interest but none of their friends do either so guess just sign of the times.

(quoted from post at 21:30:03 03/12/17) 68-69 Bien Hoa, chopper pilot. Flew mostly 9th ID, 25th ARVN Div and SF Teams out of Song Be/Tay Ninh area. I switched to 12v many years ago and has a front mount dist. I spent so much time trying to figure out where my oil was going that have not started TS electrical, hopefully tomorrow. I see Petronix now offers an electronic conversion to replace the points. Is this a good thing to do on a tractor that is run very little? It would not start when I bought it but I had it running very good for over 15 years before letting it sit for so long. I did run it out of gas before parking and so far just a little weeping out of the carb. I have a 5' bush hog that has kept a couple of lots cleared and just having it around continues to bring back memories of Grandpa in the 50s and how hard farm life was back then and even earlier days. Young grandsons have no interest but none of their friends do either so guess just sign of the times.

Click to expand...

Ever get to Ben Het? Got medevaced with a couple of guys from there. III Corps in 69 was pretty hot for the SF teams in 69. As I'm sure you recall.

Do you have battery voltage to the coil (points open; about 9v if closed)? If so, and no spark, the problem is in the distributor.

Hold off on the EI until you get it running on points. All EI does is replace the points/condenser. It won't fix a worn out distributor.

The front distributor was designed to come off of the tractor to replace/adjust the points. To do this, remove the wire on the coil, remove the coil bail, remove the distributor cap &amp; take the two bolts off. The base of the distributor has an offset tang &amp; can only go back one way unless you really force it on.

The first thing you need to check is bushing wear. If the shaft has any sideways movement AT ALL, the bushings must be replaced. (see below)

Next, look at how the points &amp; condenser are set in the distributor before you start pulling it down! Turn the tang &amp; observe how the points open &amp; close. If this is your first time doing it, draw a sketch! Make sure you are using quality points. I use only Wells, Blue Streak or Echlin brand points (* see below). Be careful not to ground the tip of the condenser wire to the body of the distributor when you replace the points. Do not break the little copper strip that go to the points. (If you do, make another out of the old set of points). Also, make sure the condenser wire does not go through the same opening in the distributor as the coil pig tail. The condenser wire goes through the opening on the top right.

Look at the old points; are they burned, pitted or misaligned? Check the point gap, .015 on all four lobes. Make sure the blade is at a perfect right angle to the points. You want to feel just the slightest bit of drag when you pull the blade through the points. Set the points on the high side of the cam and ensure they align correctly. Make sure you have the star washers under the screws on the points. If you need to replace the 8-32 X
.19 fillister head screws, ensure that the new screws do not interfere with the advance weights. Dress the points by running a piece of card stock or a brown paper bag through them. New points sometimes have an anti-corrosive dielectric coating on them &amp; old points can corrode or pick up grease from a dirty feeler gauge or excessive cam lubricant. And, don’t forget to lube the rubbing block w/ cam lube; not Vaseline, not bearing grease, but cam lube (** see below).

If you are using quality points and cannot get the gap to open to .015, chances are you need to replace the bushings.

Now, set the timing. Get a meter or test light, a 21/64” drill bit (*** see below) &amp; a metal straight edge. Put the distributor face down w/ the condenser on the left &amp; the timing plate lock screw on the bottom. Look at the end of the shaft: it has a narrow side &amp; a wide side. Make sure you can tell the difference. Now, place the drill bit in the bottom mounting hole (this will be your reference point for measuring). Next, place a straight edge on the wide side of the tang on the shaft as shown in fig. FO83 in the picture. Rotate the shaft CCW (as viewed from rotor side OR CW as viewed from back/tang side) until the straight edge is ¼" beyond the outside edge of the drill bit you stuck in the distributor mounting hole. At this distance, the distributor points should start to open (get your meter/light out now &amp; check). If not, loosen the timing plate lock screw and turn to advance or retard the timing (move the plate down to advance timing, up to retard). Remember, each one of those little hash marks represents about 4° of timing. Keep adjusting until you get the proper ¼" setting. (if the plate won’t move, you might need to remove the big C clip to loosen it a bit) As you’re adjusting, eliminate backlash by turning the shaft backwards (CW as viewed from the front) and bring the shaft forward (CCW as viewed from the front) to measure your setting. This ¼" setting will get you static timing at top dead center.

After you set the points &amp; timing, do a continuity check before you put the distributor back on the tractor. Before you start, make sure your meter/light works.

With the distributor still off the tractor, follow these steps:

1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw &amp; the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded.

2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw &amp; the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open &amp; close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open.

3. Put the coil on the distributor, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should have continuity!

4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity!

At this point, I just put the distributor, coil &amp; cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil misaligned trying to put it back together, one piece at a time. The result is something gets broken or you get a ‘no spark’ problem.

It's possible to put it back on wrong &amp; break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. Whatever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam &amp; distributor! (close counts). Place the distributor on the front of the engine, gently push it in place &amp; slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes line up. Hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush with the timing gear cover.

Double-check your firing order &amp; plug wires. It’s 1-2-4-3, counterclockwise. It’s very easy to cross 3 &amp; 4.

And finally, do not forget to remove the distributor on an annual basis (more often, depending on use) to check the point gap and re-lube the cam.

* NAPA part numbers:

· Points: FD-6769X

· Condenser: FD-71

· Rotor: FD-104

· Cap: FD-126

** Distributor cam lube:

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Result.aspx?Ntt=ECH+ML1
&lt;http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Result.aspx?Ntt=ECH+ML1&amp;Ntk=Keyword&amp;Nty=1
&amp;Dn=0&amp;D=ECH+ML1&amp;Dk=1&amp;Dp=3&amp;N=0&gt;
&amp;Ntk=Keyword&amp;Nty=1&amp;Dn=0&amp;D=ECH+ML1&amp;Dk=1&amp;Dp=3&amp;N=0

** Distributor cam lube

http://www.carquest.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/subcategory__10151_-1_1065
1_11340

*** Rather than the drill bit, a jig made by Dan Allen (The Old Hokie) will make this task quicker &amp; more accurate.



http://windyridgefarm.us/

**** Unscrew the plate hold down screw &amp; remove the C clip to get the plate out. Remove the shaft &amp; weights. The weights should freely move.

There are three ways to replace the bushings in a front distributor:

1. Buy new bushings (part numbers 9N12120 front &amp; 18-12132 rear). Press
out the old ones, press in the new ones and ream to fit. CAUTION: do not try this unless you have a press &amp; know how to use it. If you break the base, a new one costs $130. If you bend the tower which holds the front bushing, a new plate will cost you $30.

2. Take the new bushings and distributor to your local machine shop.

3. Send the distributor out for bushing replacement if you do not have a
local machine shop.

Make sure your distributor isn’t worn out; check the wear parts with a micrometer and compare what you have to the factory specs (below). Factory
Specs:

Shaft top .4367 / .4370

Shaft Bottom .8625 / .8630

Cam Flats .789 / .791

Cam Lobes .869 / .871

Base Tang .177 / .178

Bruce, Thanks again for your help. My little tractor starts right up and is back running like a sewing machine again, although with a little smoke. No more than I use it, I can live with that. I had a hot wire to the coil but nothing beyond the coil. I took the distributor off, cleaned and reset the points and reinstalled it all. Couldn't find anything wrong but could have been the ground strap on the points but everything looked good before I cleaned it up. As soon as I hit the starter, she fired right up and runs great. Hydraulics are next. Back to NAM, I never got as far north as you were. Bu Dop was the northern most SF team we normally supported, although I did go to Ninh Co (sp) once a little further up, about due west of Cam Ranh. Stayed mostly in lll Corps but occasionally down the delta. Me and my room mate in school went back over in '93 for four days. He was with the 1st Cav out of LZ Evans, got evacuated about mid tour so we went back just to see what we missed. Not much. No Americans there yet, most assumed we were Russians. Interesting trip, did get down in the Cu Chi tunnels.

You're welcome. Glad to help. Tnx for the follow-up.

Check out tip # 16. Post back w/ results when you're ready to deal w/ the hydraulics.

I've never had a desire to see VN again. Had a friend who went back about 10 years ago. His tour group stopped in Hanoi. He told me that late one night, he got out of bed, got dressed & walked down to the bridge over the Red River & took a pizz.
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