tractor acting up like it has water in gas

Posted this earlier---now it is gone from the forum. Got a 52 N, side mount of course. Not long ago I put on a new gas tank, had some rust in tank. New sediment bowl-shut off devise It ran ok for awhile, then it started acting like it was running out of gas. I drilled a small hole in gas cap to vent, no help. Finally I had a local tractor place re-build carb. They adjusted points and timing too. It ran ok for awhile, then I put new plugs and plug wires. Used Autolite plugs as advised here. Never started and ran so good in the 10 years I've owned it. That was last fall. Today, I started it--started good, but soon was acting like it was running out of gas. The carb bottom plug pou8rs gas out good, the inlet fitting ]was removed to check that screen--slick as a whistle. The tractor now will run to limp it back from where I was if the choke is 1/2 out. It is a mess. Anyone want a cheap tractor? haha, would like to get her going again. I adjusted the jets on carb for 15 minutes, no good, it just acts like water in tank, or plugged up someplace. Hope you have an idea. Thank you. This is really a nice tractor actually.
 
Pulling out the choke gives you a richer mixture. So, you could have either a fuel or spark problem.

A carb out of adjustment will also cause this problem; set the main jet at 1-1/2 turns out & leave it alone.

A dirty carb can cause the problem as well; start by cleaning the fuel screens. (see tips 45 & 56)

Dirty/old gas, or water in the gas can cause this problem. Put a pint of gas in a clear glass jar & let it set overnight.

Restricted fuel flow can cause this problem; remove the bolt at the bottom of the carb & check for flow. The flow should fill a pint jar in under 2 minutes.

On my 1950 frontmount, needing choke to run is the first sign that the points need adjusting/replacing.

A vacuum leak can do the same thing. Get a hand propane torch and carefully spray it (unlit of course) around the intake manifold at the carb to manifold interface & the manifold to block gasket of the tractor while it is running. Or, you can use carb cleaner or WD40. If it speeds up, you found the leak. Sometimes (rarely) manifolds crack or get rust holes.

Lastly, when all else fails, you could have an air leak around the carb metering section. The likely suspects are leaky throttle shaft seals and/or a worn throttle shaft. Or, just a real dirty carb w/ clogged passages.

Bottom line: Probably 90% of "needs choke to run" problems are fuel related, but do not rule out ignition problems, contrary to what others may tell you. I?ve had that very same problem before w/ a rebuilt carb, fresh fuel & good flow & a tight manifold.......and it was a spark problem. But, that was unusual. Just check the likely fuel problems first.

Please be sure to post back & let us know what the fix was. We all learn something if you tell us what worked!
75 Tips
 
Forgot to ask this===I have a Marvel carb, but was wondering if anyone had experiences with the 109 dollar knock-offs offered all the time on E-Bay. Hate Chinese junk and imagine that is what they are. About 300 on this site for a Marvel. The carb I have may need replaced, despite being re-built last summer.
 
Brucew44guns,If you want your original quality rebuilt and tractor teated .You need to send it to our resident carb man Royse as he does great work and it will be tested and set on his tractor, ready to run when you get it back.Just contact him at [email protected] or just look for him on this site.Your carb rebuilt would be 100% better than a junk import.
 
Brucew44guns,Remove the plug on the bottom of the carb and catch the gas in a pint jar(it should fill it in about 2 minutes) to see if it has any water in it that set in there all winter and rusted the inside of your carb up.Is there any water showing in the sediment bowl,if so remove it and clean it up also.
 
brucew44guns, Yes, I have some experience with those $109 carbs.
In my opinion, they are much better than the more expensive
"black beauty" knock-offs that are advertised as M/S but are not.
Neither of those have 60+ years of proven reliability.

I want to thank Den for the recommendation.
It is common to misspell my name, so if you tried to send an
email and got a bounce back, try replacing the C with an S -
RoyseTractors at gmail.com

I would be happy to rebuild your original or help you rebuild it
yourself over the phone or via email. Whatever keeps them alive.

I also would not dismiss a weak spark condition until ruled out.
Most new points are not of the best quality.
I have had cheap ones fail within a couple hours of run time.

45827.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 18:49:58 02/19/17) Gas is perfect, sediment bowl clean, gas flows fast out the bottom.

Depending on your location and were you store your tractor, you very well could have water in the gas. These temperature fluctuations here have cause bad condensation. I would buy a bottle of HEAT and pull the plug in the carb for a second to get the treated fuel to the carb. This is even more likely if you keep your tank low on fuel.

Obviously the other replies are all possibilities also, but for the cost of the gas treatment, it is worth a try.
 
Look for a good used MS on ebay if ya go to mikes carbs they have Made in the USA kits. Stay away from the import junk. I think somebody in Minn. is making some carbs but not sure who.
 

replace points with a high quality set and gap to 0.025" if you do not have a good spark to the plugs. it should be able to jump 1/4" gap.
 
"they have Made in the USA kits."

Packaged in the USA from what I can tell, and the kits are woefully incomplete.
O'Reilly's sells about the same thing at the same price minus the shipping cost.
TSC's carb kits are also marked "Made in the USA" and contain more parts than
that, although still not complete. I don't buy them either.
Good carb kits are getting hard to come by.
 
If you are using the modern ethanol gas.. it's very, very, very rare to see liquid water in your tank anymore, rather than it being dissolved.

If you want to check, run some into a jar.. proof will be in the bottom of the jar.

I'm going to say that this is not water.. but rather clogged circuits, or a hair of possibility of a vacume leak.. but my bet is on fuel delivery thru the carb.
 
before telling him to go buy something.. why not tell him to look at the gas in a glass jar.

water will be evident, IF it exists.

If he's using ethanol gas.. it's VERY unlikely there will be seperated liquid water showing. ( If there is.. there is a WHOLE
LOT of water in that tank, past saturation ).

Ethanol gas, or not, water in gas or not.....Observe first, buy second.
 
Thanks for your reply. I just came back from the barn working on it a bit. I opened the fuel valve, took the plug out bottom of carb, let a pint of gas run through. It trickled through at a fair rate I think--looked good to me. The first gas coming I captured it, it was clean and clear as a bell. It was fresh gas I filled it up with recently, the sediment bowl is crystal clear. Maybe the carb guy who rebuilt the carb last summer did a poor job, or used an inferior kit. He did mention when I picked it up that the main jet had to be drilled out? Did not come out easy. I'm unfamiliar so not sure what that meant. But it's a disaster now. I adjusted screws at 1 turn for idle and 1 1/2 for the main, started it and let it run 10 minutes, without the choke out about 1/3 she would die. It sounds smooth for a bit, then like it loads up and gets all hacky, you have to goose it a bit to -prevent from dieng. Probably send it to Royse.
 
Maybe end of story. I had a brand new Pertronix coil here, never used. I put it on today for the heck of it. The inside of distributor cap and points area was a bit dusty--although not horrible when I checked it out. Blew it out, put it all back--that sucker sounds like it would climb a tree in high gear now. Idles perfectly, and smooth as a tap at very high idle. Did not put a load on it tonight, no time--but it sounds great and re-starts right up and idles nice, no choke needed. Was it the new coil, or blowing dirt out of distributor? I don't know and really don't care, just glad my6 8 runs again. Thanks all--as usual.
 
" Was it the new coil, or blowing dirt out of distributor?"

Or a loose wire that you fixed when you installed the new coil.

Put the old coil back on to find out.

And get a dust cover for the distributor.

As well as suppression plugs wires to go with that EI or it will burn itself out from the RFI on the plug wires. That's what Pertronix told me when the EI went bad in my MG TD.
75 Tips
 
Bruce---trust me, right now I prefer to perhaps leave a sleeping dog lie. Maybe you can write me back and tell me where those suppression wires are to be had, and a dust cover too It's got almost new copper wired plug wires on now that made a huge difference in starting when I installed those last summer. Got Autolite 437's too. I'm going to try running it cutting thick old dead grass tomorrow, that will tell the outcome but she sounded great today. bruce
 
This site should have the dust cover. nnalert's does, p/n FAA12239A.

Pertronix should have the wires. Not resistor wires, but suppression wires.
75 Tips
 
Does the tractor have electronic ignition or just a Pertronix
brand coil? I thought earlier you mentioned it having points.
 
(quoted from post at 06:48:00 02/21/17) Does the tractor have electronic ignition or just a Pertronix
brand coil? I thought earlier you mentioned it having points.

Oooops!

My bad. Need more coffee.

Yea, I see he said points, so forget about the wires.
 
It has a standard distributor and points. The coil is that 34 dollar one that is oil filled. Im going to go mow again right now--under a load the proof will pan out if it is fixed.
 
I ran the 8N today, mowed down some weeds that were 5 feet high with grass all twined in to that mess. At full high operating throttle she pulled on through like a champ, no bucking or puking at all, sounding great. I always thought a coil was good---or bad. AND---it could have been the blowing out of the dist. cap. I don't think the carb needed adjusting at all. Anyhow---all of you guys really impress me--you take time to help, thank you sincerely. Especially appreciated an e-mail I received from Royse. Bruce
 
(quoted from post at 18:35:22 02/21/17) I ran the 8N today, mowed down some weeds that were 5 feet high with grass all twined in to that mess. At full high operating throttle she pulled on through like a champ, no bucking or puking at all, sounding great. I always thought a coil was good---or bad. AND---it could have been the blowing out of the dist. cap. I don't think the carb needed adjusting at all. Anyhow---all of you guys really impress me--you take time to help, thank you sincerely. Especially appreciated an e-mail I received from Royse. Bruce

You're welcome. Glad to help. Tnx for the follow-up.
 

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