Historical Question

I was doing some reading on the Minneapolis Steele and Machinery Company, I understand management fought very hard to keep the labor unions out, with that being said and what the outlook of the economy during the early 20's. What were the working hours for the production floor.

I know it was normal in that era for 10 and 12 hour days as a norm because that is what Ford was doing, but I am curious how many shifts were there?

My great uncle stated out as a riveter in 1928 and retired in 1968, his pension was one of those effected by the White mismanagement in the early 70's. I remember as a boy at family reunions he was always hot about the topic when it was brought up. (also a few beers never had anything to do with that conversation)

Thanks
 
Management always wanted to keep the labor unions out, they wanted to hire people, and work them like a rented mule,so that management team could divy up the profits for them selves. When things really went bad,is when they sold to the White family, and the pile of cash that was a Minneapolis- Moline asset,that was the unionns, went with the company.
 

The 8 hour work day was not a new thing, even with Henry Ford, it was back in 1867 Illinois enacted some of the first 8 hour workday laws, and it culminated in the Haymarket massacre in Chicago May 4th 1884 that 7 police officers and three workers were killed during a labor protest of how the laws were enforces, at the time Illinois had several 8 hour work day laws on the books at the time.

The most notable was in 1914 during an economic downturn and high turn over rates, when Henry Ford implemented his $5 a day for and 8 hour work day for male workers, in 1916 it was to include women workers.

The caveat was that even though the 8 Hour work day was a recruiting point for the Ford Motor Company, it was not a company policy nor was it wide spread in all the Ford Plants. The Rouge plant, Fords Largest, was technically the only plant at the time to use the new 8 hour work day. So typically the 10 to 12 hour work day was still common place even at Ford.

It wasn't until 1926, by the direction of then Ford Motor Companies President Edsel Ford, that the 8 hour work day and the 40 hour work week became standard in all Ford Plants.

Just for the record I am not a Union man nor do I support or profess any union, I am just a crazy history nut that wants to learn why and how our manufacturing industries made us a great country.
 

Also just a point to add, even though in the history books it is said this all happened because of Henry Ford, that is not entirely true.

Same goes for his $5 a day for an 8 hours of work. Not all employees received this benefit. Ford had a department that would go to the employees home to see if they deserved the wage before he would pay it.

In college my history of manufacturing in the U.S. was my favorite class, and Ford, Proctor and Gamble just happened to be the companies I researched for my class paper.
 
What mismanagement are you refering too, The best year Mpl-Moline ever had a was 1951, they just could get people to buy there products, what u going to do. I am not sticking up for the White family, they were as corrupt as they come. I have a good friend Paul Anderson, who worked there, at the Lake Street plant.
 
More to it than that, understand Henry Ford was a S.O.B. and in today's politically correct and sensitive society would of been sued into the poorhouse, but then maybe why that's why we
don't have an economy based on manufacturing anymore. If you look carefully you'll find many instances of ethical businessmen who have built successful businesses with out ill treatment of
their employees. Look at some of the policies and practices that were in place at REO (okay maybe that's not a good example as they were not successful over most of their existence) where
management/leadership tried to create a family attitude among employees. In many cases the union ends up destroying or changing that relationship. Consider the union may have to create
animosity between the employees and management to get in the door, and then ensure they maintain an adversarial relationship between labor and management to ensure their position and
maintain their ability to manipulate the employees. The basic fact is if a union is being run correctly it's job is to represent the best interests of the employee which may not be the best
interests of the company or the customers. This is were it might be assumed any business that is union is going to be in a decline. I remember reading and learning about the decline of the
British auto industry, an example was put forth that the negations to move the dimmer switch on a car from the floor to the steering column took over 4,000 hours. Let's put that in
perspective that's the equivalent of two persons working a year to simply negotiate moving the dimmer switch. This hinder's management's ability to improve, correct or upgrade products to
meet new laws and standards or customer demand. You got to wonder, if they chose to develop a new car what percentage of the cost of development is simply arguing with the union on what
each employee that builds the car can do and not do and how many people are needed to do each task and how fast they can run the line?

Look at the issues in the recent Hobby Lobby case. The owners of Hobby Lobby had objections to 4 of the 18 birth control methods required under the ACA, how much money did they have to
spend to get a ruling that 14 of 18 was acceptable? Further consider that Hobby Lobby has a 6 day work week (unheard of in retail) limits their evening hours and if the sign I read on
their front door about 6 months ago they start employees at about $15.00/ hour. How many people are FORCED to work at Hobby Lobby? How many people are forced to shop at Hobby Lobby? If
those 4 methods of birth control are so important to you Walmart is hiring for about $5 an hour LESS and you'll have to support a 7 day a week schedule. And remember how much the media
vilified Hobby Lobby and their "war on women".

Another example comes from the firm my Dad worked for for 30 years. They were a trucking firm hauling new cars and trucks out of plants in Michigan. The company owned a bus and a group of
employees could check out the bus for outings such as going to a Ball game, fairs, concerts or sporting events. One of their employees was a Boy scoutmaster and his troop was raising funds
to go to Washington DC. At the last moment the bus company they were going to use raised the price and the troop cancelled the trip because they didn't have enough money. When the owner of
the business saw the employee had cancelled his vacation time he asked him why, and the employee explained why. The owner of the business gave the employee the keys to the bus and a company
credit card and told him to take the boy scouts to Washington, but also told him "don't let anyone else drive the bus". When the employee returned from the trip he filed a grievance and
demanded he be paid for driving the scouts to DC, the union backed him and the company lost and had to pay the wages. The company got the money for the wages by selling the bus.

We can accuse companies of mismanagement but many times it isn't entirely managements fault. Sometimes it's simply the business hasn't responded to changes in their industry until to late,
sometimes (like REO) it's simply the market was getting smaller and there wasn't a place for them anymore. Sometimes it was because they didn't stand up to excessive union labor demands and
changed their focus from the companies future to a graceful exit from the market place. I grew up in the Lansing Michigan area Diamond Reo was another "victim" of White Motor Company but
the bottom line was the market for trucks was changing and they got forced out. Yes there was some accusations made that the man that bought them from White made money by bankrupting them,
and maybe he did. But it comes back to the big question- Why in today's economy is it immoral for a company to make money but it's okay for their employees to get above average compensation
for below average work?
 

All responses were fantastic, I am a history hound, but I think we wandered quite a ways from my original question. All I wanted to know is if anyone knew what the hours of production were at MS&M.

I am also guilty of wandering from my original question too.

The comments I mentioned as to what my great uncle said, since he died when I was 15, I am now relying on a 100 year old widow for what he actually said. I mentioned the mismanagement quote is because My great aunt mentioned to me over 30 times in our conversation, she also mentioned it was a hot topic when we had a family reunion at a park over by the old Como Plant, I remembered that it was heated because at 13 years old you remember when relatives go home mad cussing and swearing from a family function.

Now that she has recently passed at 102, I have acquired a couple of my great uncles items from the days he worked at MS&M. and at Minne.
 
Hello,

Very interesting topic!

I looked through my college's library and found a couple of bulletins that are public domain for the Minneapolis Steel company:
These are the links (don't want the copyright police comin for me!). From 1916 and 1918 I believe, the scans aren't the best quality but page 189 in the first link (1918 BUlletin) below has an interesting take from an employee's request to his manager to give him a raise.

[url =https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=nyp.33433069060188;view=1up;seq=7]1918 Bulletin:[/url]


1916 BUlletin:



This is a photo of the "Z" shop at MS&MC:

Z-Shop at MS&MC

Here's one of my own photos: sorry couldn't find a tractor from the Minneapolis Steel & Machinery Co. its from the WMSTR (Rollag) show in Minnesota.
35310.jpg
 
You should get in contact with Tony Thompson. He operates the Twin City website. From what I understand, he interviewed several MSM Co. employees prior to their passing trying to collect as much info about the company as possible.
I am not sure if their conversations focused solely on the machinery produced or if they ventured into the HR side of things, but it is worth asking.
 

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