Let's Talk Hydraulic Fluid (again)

fixt

Member
I have a Massey model 65 diesel utility.
My hydraulic fluid is milky/foamy probably resulting in a "twitchy" acting lift, so I elected to change it. It is likely water contamination resulting from sitting outside.

I went to NAPA and picked up 10 gals of warren 303 tractor fluid.
Nowhere does it say GL-1 spec or viscosity. Sold by the 5 gallon pail.
From searching here, I [b:f1eca34c10]think[/b:f1eca34c10] it meets the following Massey specs:
Massey Ferguson – M-1103A, M-1103B, M-1110, M-1129A, M-1135, Permatran® III,
M-1138, M-1141, M-1143, M-1145
I am not sure about this as the viscosity seems wrong.
I [b:f1eca34c10]think[/b:f1eca34c10] that viscosity from gear oil to hydraulic oil is different, but I'm not sure how.
It is not 80-90 weight. Note the SAE viscosity of 20 wt.

Typical Properties from Warren 303 Data Sheet
API Gravity @ 60°F 24.0
Sp. Gr. @ 60°F 0.9100
Flash, COC, °F 390
Viscosity,
cSt @40°C 68.5
cSt @100°C 7.5
SAE Viscosity Grade 20 WT

Now consider the following:
NAPA part # 65-201 (by the gallon), no data sheet
GL-1 90 Gear Oil
That's all I can find on it.


Am I wrong in thinking I need to take this back and get the proper 80-90 GL-1 from Napa?
Help a guy learn something (more) here.
Thanks again guys.
 
Opinions are like belly buttons and a**holes. Everybody has one! I believe 303 fluid is a trans-hydraulic fluid but if it doesn"t say what spec"s it meets than I would not use it. But that"s me. There are plenty of other brands out there state what specs they meet and I would use them. The original 90 GL-1 that was spec"d for this tractor 50-60 years ago is not always easy to find but I believe NAPA carries it. You can also use Hy-Tran, Costco has a premium tractor fluid that meets most manufacturers specs. Some people use 10W30 motor oil (I personally wouldn"t unless I was in a emergency situation.). I guess it"s just the engineer in me but I would try to get an oil that that was spec"d for the manufacturer product.

My $0.02.
 
Choosing oils for older tractors can leave you crosseyed from reading all the specs and trying to decide what comes closest to original. My
TEA 20 should have non detergent 90 but no such animal exists in Canada anymore.(Our NAPA and TSC are independent of the US companies. Even
part numbers are sometimes different) I went to an Esso dealer I felt I could trust. After consulting their books and calling the
distribution office it was suggested that Mobil Hydraul 56 was a good choice to replace the original fluid. I think your 65 probably has a
hydraulic oil filter so it should be even better for you than me.
 

OK, Thanks to you both.
I'm taking the 303 stuff back.
Will the NAPA GL-1 90 wt meet the spec for my tractor?

I'm limited in where I can get hydraulic oil.
There's an Auto Zone, which I try to avoid.
There's NAPA which is an independent and sometimes limited. But I did call them and they can get it next day.
Then there's an independent auto parts dealer which is my go to for fittings and bolts and such. Anything else is 20 miles away.
 
Does your tractor has MultiPower ? If yes you must use Massey-Ferguson Permatran oil.

90 oil is too tick for multi-power system. MP clutch will slip and fail.

MF 100 series with MultiPower and/or independent PTO must use Permatran.
As per MF Permatran may be used in power steering system.

HTH Joe Ferguson
 
No multipower

This is what the old fluid looked like. The floating stuff is from the
surgically clean bucket. That is what is called a clue.
mvphoto11347.jpg


Since no one will come out and say it,
I'll get the GL-1 90 wt from NAPA.
 
I found this (vintage tractor engineer).
Re: oil type, The original oil for the gearbox recommended for temperate regions is the SAE50 grade, with a move to SAE40 and then SAE30 as the temperature decreases and a similar move the other way as temp goes up. Nowadays we would suggest a move to a tractor universal oil ( 15w/40 or 15w/30) for climates like ours (UK). Even the MF branded HC Plus used in the modern tractors is ok to use all the way back to the 35s. I feel that the 80 or 90 grades would be much too viscus for the hydraulics and unable to pass through the filter, however although not recommended the thicker grades may be a possibility for tractors operating in hot climates which are not fitted with the hydraulic system.

The spec for the 80/90 oil will be for the reduction hubs on the rear axle of the 65. These are sealed from the center housing.
 
Hey yeah, I saw that too searching through the intertubes. That was one of the things that made me ask this. It seems nobody can agree on an oil spec unless its whether to use a GL-5 spec or not regarding bushing materials (yellow metals) and sulfur content.
It seems a lot of people use what works and nothing wrong with that I guess.
Although oils have advanced in 54 years.

I finally found it in one of the books.
From MH-S-MF65
From the Service Manual Group III Section A Part 1 p. 352

HYDRAULIC SYSTEM, DIFFERENTIAL AND TRANSMISSION LUBRICATION
The oil used in the hydraulic system is also used to lubricate the transmission and differential.
Capacity of these combined units is 8 U.S. (6-1/2 Imperial) gallons.
Oil specifications are:
S.A.E. 90 for temperatues above 50 F.
S.A.E. 80 for temperatures below 50 F.

Then it goes on to talk about adding additional oil based on volume requirements of external systems if more than 1-1/2 gallons.

So I'm thinking I'll be ok with the GL-1 oil. It may be a little slow on the lift at first until it warms up, but I'm not expecting a lot of winter use.
Wasn't that oil nasty?
I'm surprised it was only "twitchy" and not erratic and that it worked at all.
 
I think you will find out that GL-90 oil is way too thick for your tractor. Remember the lift system used the same oil. The original MF oil was about the same as 30w engine oil. I can remember changing the oil with the factory oil years ago. We had a good local MF dealership. I know the oil was not a thick as GL-90 oil.
 
Well, according to the chart posted by JLMAC the 90 wt oil viscosity would be around the same as 40-50 wt S.A.E. engine oil. That's nothing like a 90 wt EP gear lube. And the engineers of the time called for 80-90 wt, with the caveat that formulations have improved a great deal since then.
But if it worked then, it will work now.
I've decided to give the GL-1 a go and if its too thick, I'll find something else. I've got 2 pails of the NAPA oil sitting and waiting on pick up.

The hydraulics have been drip draining all weekend so weather permitting it will go in tomorrow. Probably afternoon when the rain quits. I'll report back on how it works.
 

The GL-1 works fine. The lift is still a little twitchy when raising, but it holds its position and doesn't creep down.
I'm calling it good for now, until I can afford a pump and the time to do it. Probably next winter, sounds like a good time for me.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top