Need opinion please

rnccen

Member
I am in the process of replacing the piston in the lift cylinder of my 135 with the new style (teflon).

The cylinder has some scoring towards the lip on the bottom (when installed)....my question is should it be replaced or will it be ok as is to install the new piston and leave it alone?

I have not popped the old piston out yet.

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Since you aren't intending to do a complete rebuild, i would at least hone this one out, you can rent hones at auto zone or something like that. Whatever killed the piston didn't do the cylinder any good. What does the bearing look like?
 
If you can feel the scratches with your fingernail replace the cylinder. You would be there a very long time with a hone trying to remove enough material to remove the scratches. A cylinder hone that people use at home is not very precise, and is only used to get rid of the shiny glaze in a cylinder. You could give it a quick hone, but the scratches will still be there to wear your new piston, and seal(s) faster.
 
I would hone it out as best as possible. The new Teflon ring and rubber ring underneath do a good job of sealing the piston, but you still would want to get as many scratches clean and smoothed out as possible. I did mine a few years ago and I was lucky that the piston was in pristine condition.
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I would replace the cylinder personally.. Even if you hone the edges off the score marks you are still leaving plenty of groves for the pressure to bypass. The seal will not last as long either.
 
Thank you for your reply's, I went ahead and ordered a replacement, got the piston out it was also scored quite a bit.

Got the o-ring and teflon on after much effort on the new piston though there is a lot of play in the teflon ring from side to side in the slot. I can't seem compress it enough to even get it flush with the piston side to put into the new one.

Is this normal, I am worried I may have stretched it to much putting it on.
 
Can you post a picture of that ring? That don't sound right at all. Any written instructions in the kit? All this 'might' fit the new cylinder when it arrives tho. You only have the non metal pistons and rings right? Hard to imagine a plastic taking all that pressure, there are several posts on here where the whole arsend of the tractor cracked in half.... course the 'give' would make it safer i suppose?
 
The ring won't compress enough to get it flush with the side of the piston so that is ok. The o-ring under it is designed to give outword pressure so it stays compressed against the side of the cylinder. I should be snug though on the o-ring and have no side to side movement.
Did you heat it up before sliding it over the piston or did you force it cold?
 
(quoted from post at 05:57:40 04/28/17) The ring won't compress enough to get it flush with the side of the piston so that is ok. The o-ring under it is designed to give outword pressure so it stays compressed against the side of the cylinder. I should be snug though on the o-ring and have no side to side movement.
Did you heat it up before sliding it over the piston or did you force it cold?




X2 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
(quoted from post at 09:43:21 04/28/17)
(quoted from post at 05:57:40 04/28/17) The ring won't compress enough to get it flush with the side of the piston so that is ok. The o-ring under it is designed to give outword pressure so it stays compressed against the side of the cylinder. I should be snug though on the o-ring and have no side to side movement.
Did you heat it up before sliding it over the piston or did you force it cold?




X2 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I did put in hot water to soften up, and just barley got it over the lip and down into the seat. I saw on youtube that with the PTFE seals you need to compress them so I wrapped it with plastic and tape overnight and this am it shrunk down to orig. size and looks a lot better on the piston.

I honed the old cylinder and the scratches are gone, so on a whim I installed the piston with a ring compressor and it went in with a few taps from wooden dowel.

Rebuild the tractor but now I have very very slow lift on the arms and only with draft. Position is non-responsive so either I lost the spring for position or the roller popped off. The 2 long springs were off when I took the plate off the side of the cylinder.

so I will have to remove the lift cover again to sort it out. I was trying to bleed air but it was painfully slow to raise the arms so shut it all down and will look at it later.

I wanted to see what this piston would do and still intend on replacing the cylinder when the new one comes in, but I need to sort out the slow arm lift.
 
Remember when you put it all back together you have to do the adjustments to the linkage. If you don't then you run a big risk of things not working right at the minimum to heavy damage at the maximum.
 
I took the cover off and followed the manual for the draft control adjustment and the position control adjustment using the 3lbs and a feeler gauge as noted. I did not have a wedge tool so I rigged something to insert.

Refitted the cover and followed the remaining adjustment procedures.

At present I have no response from the arms, I can see the actuator moving back and forth from the side cover and the roller arm moving also, when I manually push the roller arm towards the rear (raise the arms) I get nothing. I am at a loss.

Anyone know a good tractor person in the San Antonio, TX area that I can bring the tractor to so this can be sorted out?

Thanks again for the help thus far, I appreciate it greatly.
 
So you have enough fluid drained out that you can take the side cover off and watch what's happening. I assume you have enough fluid in there to flow through the pump filter though correct?
With the quadrant levers both up do you see any fluid leaking or squirting inside? A flashlight and mirror really help with this one. If you angle the mirror and light so you can see the front do you see the fluid being splashed around by the pump moving or is it calm in there?
Do you have a pressure gauge you can put on the side of the top cover port to measure pressure with? TSC or any farm store should have them if not for about 20 bucks. Always a good thing to have in your tools box.
 
(quoted from post at 10:05:56 04/29/17) So you have enough fluid drained out that you can take the side cover off and watch what's happening. I assume you have enough fluid in there to flow through the pump filter though correct?
With the quadrant levers both up do you see any fluid leaking or squirting inside? A flashlight and mirror really help with this one. If you angle the mirror and light so you can see the front do you see the fluid being splashed around by the pump moving or is it calm in there?
Do you have a pressure gauge you can put on the side of the top cover port to measure pressure with? TSC or any farm store should have them if not for about 20 bucks. Always a good thing to have in your tools box.

I went to TSC they don't have the 3k PSI, have to go to Northern on Monday.

it is very calm inside, not a lot of movement, really only movement from the vibration of the tractor evident in the fluid.

Position and draft movement is smooth with the arm and the roller but no response.

The pump is pumping (though not very much)...took the cap off and fluid pulsated up but did not shoot out.

Images are with the tractor running and both cycled position/draft in the up position but still no movement in the arms.

I did change the pressure relief valve (2750 psi), there is no fluid coming out of the valve, wondering if I should swap it back out with the old one?

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(quoted from post at 17:53:46 04/29/17) My brother who's in LaVernia knows how to set it up, but I think your problem is a stuck control valve in the pump.

Any chance you can email me your # or brothers #, at this point willing to pay to get it resolved.
 
(quoted from post at 18:09:16 04/29/17)
(quoted from post at 17:53:46 04/29/17) My brother who's in LaVernia knows how to set it up, but I think your problem is a stuck control valve in the pump.

Any chance you can email me your # or brothers #, at this point willing to pay to get it resolved.



Check your email, I'll have to see what my brothers schedule looks like.
 
(quoted from post at 19:04:25 04/29/17)
(quoted from post at 18:09:16 04/29/17)
(quoted from post at 17:53:46 04/29/17) My brother who's in LaVernia knows how to set it up, but I think your problem is a stuck control valve in the pump.

Check your email, I'll have to see what my brothers schedule looks like.

Thanks, I replied back with my contact info.

I drained all the fluid and lifted the top, the roller arm is a little tight then clicks at the end when I push it towards the front of the tractor. Not sure how smooth it is supposed to be with that valve.

I see 2 versions, was going to order the control valve since I am this far in and once you can make arrangements, kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

Replace the valve and set the linkage, so I can use the tractor again.

http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/M...135_Lift-Pump-Valve-Assembly-_1862486M96.html

Looks like the 2nd one is an update to the original version?
 
ok not sure what happened to my 1st reply...but anyway...drained all the fluid out, took the cover off again.

The roller arm when I push toward the front of the tractor has resistance then at a point clicks. When released, the arm goes back in. I can move the arm in and out...not sure how much resistance or if it is supposed to click on at a certain point when pushed / pulled.

Yesterday has 2 valves

Lift Pump Valve Assembly. Part Number 1862486M96 (this appears to be an updated version to the original)

Lift Pump Control Valve Part Number 897507M92 (not sure if this is just the valve and additional components required?)

I want to make sure to order the correct (better version) so once you are able to get a schedule, I can get both taken care of at the same time. The valve swapped out and the linkage checked/set so I can use the tractor.

Thanks again for all the assistance.
 
It doesn't look like which one you order makes a difference, Part Number: 1862486M96, Replaces OEM Part Numbers 897507M92, 1660209M92, 897507M94, 1862486M96
 

Well I replaced the control valve in the lift pump per the manual, put it all back together and back in tractor, put new oil back in again. Cover back on, etc...still nothing on the arms.

draft and position are in up position, I can lift the arms up by hand there is no resistance, same in the down position, when let go they just fall.

only real difference I noted was the oil had really tiny bubbles in it...reminded me of frying oil bubbles or beer bubbles.

Help please...
 
Looks like the pump isn't working, when its running work the position control, look at the standpipe, and up at the cylinder and look for leaks. Doesn't look like you don't have any leaks by the way the oil looks in the video.
 
(quoted from post at 18:37:20 05/12/17) Looks like the pump isn't working, when its running work the position control, look at the standpipe, and up at the cylinder and look for leaks. Doesn't look like you don't have any leaks by the way the oil looks in the video.

The fluid barely gets up the stand pipe...I suspected the pump has gone bad and in need of a rebuild / replacement. It was working just prior to replacement of the lift piston which is what I was not sure about.

not sure if I can get just a seal kit or if I need to redo the whole pump, not really sure how to test aside from a visual inspection.
 
I cranked mine over with the starter one time without the small plate on top of the stand pipe, it would shoot oil out of the stand pipe about 2". Yours was barely getting to the top of the stand pipe. Was that by just cranking the engine over, or was the tractor running at an idle, or? Either way it definitely sounds like the pump isn't working like it should.
 
Just wanted to thank PTFarmer for coming out and helping resolve my issue with the 135. Greatly appreciated...back up and running.

In addition, thank you to Rockepg for his assistance via this forum.

Great resource....thank you again.
 
You got a good tractor for the price you paid for it. It was interesting to find the serial number tag under the right side of the battery tray hiding behind the air cleaner.
 
I had a used pump that I knew worked good, that with a very minor adjustment to the linkage was what it took. Someone had the pump that was in it apart as it had some missing o-rings (and they probably tried to adjust the linkage) instead of replacing the lift cylinder which it needed.
 

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