135 Lift Arms act weak/Master Control Spring issue?

JeffScott

Member
My 135 3 pt lift arms are weak when the top link is installed or a taught chain is substituted. I believe the pump to be in decent condition as it will lift a considerable amount of weight with the top link/chain disconnected.

I was reading somewhere that the master control spring could be an issue. There was about 1/8" of play in and out with the spring installed. I pulled the spring assembly and was going to take it apart but someone has popped a weld on the exit hole where the roll pin needs to come out of the clevis. Not sure why that was done, but I can grind it out. I'm not sure what I'm looking at, but here's a picture of the assembly. Anything look amiss?



Appreciate any and all input. The hydraulic fluid is newish, the hyd filter is new so those can be ruled out. Draft control is all the way up, I don't plow so I don't really use it, just the position control.

Thanks for your help in advance,

Jeff
 
First thing i see is you are missing the boot to keep the water out. The coil towards the back appears to be compressed but hard to tell. If it's adjusted properly you should have no in/out, up/down, left/right movement. You should be able to rotate it a little but that's it. You'll have to get the assembly apart to install the boot so it's not time wasted. Do you have a manual? There is a procedure to get it properly adjusted.
I had a similar issue with mine and just replaced the bolt and spring.
 
If it will lift without a top link, or chain you probably need a new lift cylinder, piston, and seal. My MF2135 industrial did the same thing, and with nothing on them the lift arms they would drop fairly quick (you can see them dropping) when you cut the engine off (on mine the lift cylinder/piston was worn beyond just re-sealing it).
 
Thanks for the input guys Would i be able to see the lift cylinder condition by pulling the right side inspection cover and operating the lift? What
should I look for? Sounds like the top covers coming off. I also need to get a new boot for the spring The old one was in bad shape.
 
You would have to take the top cover off to see in the cylinder. However if you take the side cover off and run the position control through its range, with the engine running, you can get an idea. If it starts raining inside the case while lifting then the cylinder is toast. If you get just a dribble out of the front of the cylinder then it "may" be ok. Works best if you have a load on the back to lift. A mechanics mirror and flashlight really help to look up in the case with the engine running. DO NOT stick your hands in there!
 
You said you had about 1/8" of play in the spring? If the spring is adjusted right you should just be able to turn it in the assembly you have out. If that is the case you could put it back in and adjust the big nut so there is no play in the spring. Then try it. If all is well the cover won't have to come off. If not then it all has to be opened up to check for internal problems.I am in the process of doing my 65 right now because the boot was gone completely and i have water in it.

Steven
 
Alright guys, I've done it now.

I pulled the cover and observed what happened when I operated the position control back and forth. The vertical linkage with the roller would move backwards, but only after the position control was half way up on the quadrant, then it started to move. At the transport demarc on the quad scale, it didn't appear to me to have moved far enough backwards. So I took a long flat blade screwdriver and pushed back on the whole position control linkage and after just about a quarter inch travel, the bush hog rose 2 feet off the deck using a chain for the top link.
There also doesn't appear to be anything leaking or spraying inside the chassis/casting.

Now me being the idiot I am decided to push that linkage a little further to see how high I could get it and it for sure hit the upper travel limit of the lift arms. That's when I heard a "crack!" noise and the mower dropped quickly to the deck.

I'm guessing I've broken something in the position control linkage or surpassed the stop for this linkage and it's come apart. Here's a picture post "crack". The vertical linkage looks like the bottom pivot point has moved to the rear to me. I don't remember it looking exactly like that to begin with. The tractor won't pick up the mower now, just sits there like it's disconnected inside. The position control lever feels a little harder to move through its travel.

Any guess what the heck I did to it? SOS!



 
Uh oh... Based on that picture you have one of the quadrant levers all the way down and are in full down mode if you will. Is that the case or are both levers up? Take a good look at the top cover and make sure you didn't crack it.
 
(quoted from post at 14:09:31 02/19/17) Uh oh... Based on that picture you have one of the quadrant levers all the way down and are in full down mode if you will. Is that the case or are both levers up? Take a good look at the top cover and make sure you didn't crack it.

The position control is down and the draft control is up. I guess we'll have to pull the cover and figure out whats broken. Any tips for pulling it? I have a shop crane.
 
Ok then that is correct. If you put both levers up then that vertical lever should move back towards the bracket. Does the roller follow it all the way back or stay forward like that?
 

It stays towards the front of the tractor now. Before it did move to the back of the tractor actuating the lift arms. I can manually push it back, but the lift arms dont rise now.
 

It stays towards the front of the tractor now. Before it did move to the back of the tractor actuating the lift arms. I can manually push it back, but the lift arms dont rise now.
 
Ok does the vertical arm on the left that goes up into the cover area have spring tension? If you hold that lever to the rear next to the bracket can you manually work the roller lever to the rear and have it raise the arms or no?
 
The crack that you heard could well be a broken cylinder if you have operated the linkage incorrectly. Check the tightness of the 4 13/16" nuts on the top of the cover. Cylinders often break across the stud holes resulting in one or more becoming loose.
Do not attempt to adjust the control spring nut until the DRAFT lever is in the fully lowered position. Adjust it so that all end float disappears and STOP. Tightening further will cause the end float to reappear. The control spring should be adjusted in the assembly so that it is stiff to turn by hand. Ensure that the rocker links are free.

DavidP, South Wales
 
(quoted from post at 15:45:38 02/19/17) Ok does the vertical arm on the left that goes up into the cover area have spring tension? If you hold that lever to the rear next to the bracket can you manually work the roller lever to the rear and have it raise the arms or no?

It does have spring tension. It does not raise the arms however. Still not seeing any hydraulic fluid spraying or leaking anywhere inside. Hoping thats a good sign.
 
Did you check the nuts on top like davidp suggested? Would think they are ok if its not raining in there. Never know though..
Ok one last test. On the side of the top cover where your right knee would be if sitting on it there is a plug in the side of the top cover. Pull that out and install a 3000 psi pressure gauge. Run the engine and put position and draft controls all the way up. Does it build any pressure? Regardless it sounds like the top cover is going to have to come off but the pressure results will hopefully narrow down the area.
 
If your big spring is snug, that is ok. If not - I had 4 that wouldn't unscrew to readjust. The thread in the yoke is open to the back - originally sealed with a rubber plug, which deteriorated and let water into the hole (boots long since departed!); rusted the rod solid.

I fought with the first one until I was blue in the face - no chance to get a good grip on the inner end. So wound up cutting the rod with a hacksaw down through a gap in the spring midway. The rods are relatively cheap to replace with new ones.

Then soaking the yoke overnight, heating the yoke and with lots of muscle 3 of the rods unscrewed ok; the fourth had to be replaced.
After cleaning up the threads, the new rods worked nicely with new boots installed. And I packed the end of the hole in the yoke with grease so the next owners would have an easier job . . .
 
(quoted from post at 06:15:53 02/20/17) Edit to my prev post - my springs were all on 35's - I think the 135 is similar , , ,

Thanks Jack, thankfully mine came out with some PB blaster overnight.
 
(quoted from post at 17:00:07 02/19/17) Did you check the nuts on top like davidp suggested?

Checked the nuts and 1 was slightly loose. No cracks in the lift cover and the bolt/stud that this loose nut was on wouldn't turn, not sure if that's significant or not. Lift cover removal starts tomorrow, I'll report back with lots of pictures and questions for all you good folks I'm sure.
 
I think I found the issue with my lift not working now...




The piston looks ok, no cracks. I will get new rings though because this tractor would never hold an implement up in the air for long when turned off. Here's some more pictures of the linkage and inside the case.









Are these rods supposed to have cotter pins on them after they go through the bracket? There's nothing holding them in the holes and the top one is close to falling out of its hole when you play with the linkage.

Speaking of the linkage, I took a short 10 second video of moving the position control from down to up and back down. The movement of the linkage looks sort of suspicious. See when the control is moved down at the very bottom of it's travel the spring moves back up. The link below is to my YouTube channel.

https://youtu.be/736oiLKcHPM

What do you guys think on the linkage?

I know I need a new cylinder and rings and gasket and master control spring boot. What else do I need to get in your estimation?

Thanks for looking,

Jeff
 
Aaaand there is your loud pop. Those rods with the holes do not require anything unless you are disassembling things. You put cotter pins through the holes after you pull the rods out of the bracket to keep your springs from launching across the room. Check those studs and make sure none are bent. If they are you need to find actual massey studs and not generic ones. They are precision fit for the holes in the top cover to keep things tight. Take the opportunity to clean out the hydraulic filter there on the left and replace the pressure relief valve on the pump itself. Its the narrow cylinder on the right by the open side cover. Cheap insurance since you have the cover off anyway. You'll also need the 0-rings for the stand pipe and the one that goes between the cylinder and cover as well as the one under the cap.
If you don't have a manual stop now and get one. Everything must be adjusted before you put the cover back on so you don't end up right back in the same boat. DON'T GUESS!
 
(quoted from post at 18:02:39 02/25/17) Aaaand there is your loud pop. Those rods with the holes do not require anything unless you are disassembling things. You put cotter pins through the holes after you pull the rods out of the bracket to keep your springs from launching across the room. Check those studs and make sure none are bent. If they are you need to find actual massey studs and not generic ones. They are precision fit for the holes in the top cover to keep things tight. Take the opportunity to clean out the hydraulic filter there on the left and replace the pressure relief valve on the pump itself. Its the narrow cylinder on the right by the open side cover. Cheap insurance since you have the cover off anyway. You'll also need the 0-rings for the stand pipe and the one that goes between the cylinder and cover as well as the one under the cap.
If you don't have a manual stop now and get one. Everything must be adjusted before you put the cover back on so you don't end up right back in the same boat. DON'T GUESS!



Thanks Rock. Do i need to pull the pump to change the pressure relief valve? I may do it just to get a better look at it.

Jeff
 
(quoted from post at 06:25:57 02/26/17) you should be able to get an open end wrench on it with the cover off and not pull the pump.

Well I've finally got the new lift cylinder mounted and new piston rings as well as a new pressure relief valve for the pump. Got it all put back together and worked the position control yesterday and it was going up and down easily but had no weight on it. Got the brush hog hooked up and tried it and nothing. Won't budge. Tested the fluid pressure off the front right hand port with my hose and gauge and it's showing zero PSI. I don't thing the fluid is making it all the way through the top cover yet. When I took the hose off the port, It just leaked a small amount.

Am I being too impatient, I only ran it for a minute or two. The linkage looks like it's working good, it's smooth. Verified the standpipe is in the pump like it should be. I will try to take a short video of the linkage working through the side cover to see if you guys think its hooked up right.

PT or Rock? Any ideas? Anybody else?

Thanks,

Jeff
 
(quoted from post at 10:17:21 03/12/17) I've had a some that took a little bit to start working unless something linkage moved/changed when you changed the lift cylinder out

Ok looks like a false alarm, it started working, lifts it nice and high so i think we're good. Now on to the fuel system losing prime all the time issue. Save that for a new thread if i can't figure it out.

Thanks guys! I'd be lost without you.
 

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