fluids in PS, trans and final drives, MF165 and 255

Nesikep

New User
I'm just doing a full service on a couple tractors here..
I found some info here about what fluids to use, but I have never heard of them before.. like M1129 and M1127... those numbers mean nothing to me.

The MF255 (8 spd) has wet brakes, and had very dirty oil in the final drives, I'm assuming the final drives share the oil with the brakes? Is this a standard 80w90 gear oil or is it special?
Also, is there any other place to drain it other than at the final drive? Seems like there should be a drain somewhere for the brake side but I'm not seeing it

Power steering fluid.. a light weight hydraulic oil should be fine? I heard not to use Dextron because the seals don't like it.

Transmission I use Hydraul 56 which is a hydraulic/gear oil.. in the 165 with Multipower i used 68 weight, it doesn't run in the winter and has hard use in the summer
 
MF 255 - Use MF Permatran hyd oil per the owners manual for the rear end, hydraulics, and power steering. Any oil brand that meets that Permatran spec will work. Do not use 80w90 because it's not compatible with the wet brakes. The dirty oil in the final drives could be because it was not changed or the wrong oil was used and it has debris from the brake discs in it.
There should be two drains on the side for the rear axle, 1 1/16"

MF 165 - IF it has the squared rear axle which means wet brakes use Permatran. If not then Permatran will work but gear oil may work -check the owners manual due to the MP. Unknown for the power steering because it may have changed in later models.
MF/AGCO does not make their oil, they have a contractor do it so as long as it meets the Permatran specs you should be okay.
 
(quoted from post at 23:14:51 02/02/17) MF 255 - Use MF Permatran hyd oil per the owners manual for the rear end, hydraulics, and power steering. Any oil brand that meets that Permatran spec will work. Do not use 80w90 because it's not compatible with the wet brakes. The dirty oil in the final drives could be because it was not changed or the wrong oil was used and it has debris from the brake discs in it.
There should be two drains on the side for the rear axle, 1 1/16"

MF 165 - IF it has the squared rear axle which means wet brakes use Permatran. If not then Permatran will work but gear oil may work -check the owners manual due to the MP. Unknown for the power steering because it may have changed in later models.
MF/AGCO does not make their oil, they have a contractor do it so as long as it meets the Permatran specs you should be okay.
Yes, the 165 is dry brakes..
Any other common trade names for permatran? Esso/Chevron, etc equivalents?

thanks :)
 
No way to find a drain for the inboard side of it.. there's the fill level plug and small 1/8th NPT drain plug on the outboard side though.. do you have to crack the casings apart to drain that stuff?
 
I've never seen any US 100 series with wet brakes, even the late square axles. Brother has a late 165 square axle with dry brakes that have larger discs and actuator units than the early tractors, and this late tractor has been apart twice for repair due to locking up. The US wet brake late 200 series have notches that are cut into the inner axle spacer that dry brake models don't have. Early 165 had the same size as the 65, 7 inch disc size. Later used 8 3/4 inch dry discs. US 200 series could have dry or wet brakes.
 
If it helps at all... Here's some pictures

Housing from rear view


Housing from front view


Outboard side rear view, fill and small drains visible


Serial number, 9A 299819
 

Yes, this 255 does have the notches in the axle.. not visible in the pictures though.. The brakes feel *much* smoother than the dry brakes on the 165
 
Thanks for clarification Dieseltech. I seem to remember one that I saw years ago that had the wet brakes but it could have been adapted. It was the last ones that were produced in the last year of the 165. Do you know the power steering fluid requirement for the 165?
 
I don't know what country you're in so I can only reference U.S. Permatran equivalents. Here NAPA and many others have Universal Tractor Fluid(UTF) that meet the Permatran specs including CAT, John Deere, Case/IH, New Holland, Tractor Supply, etc. You may want to Google Permatran III to find something that is close to you.
While sitting on the 255 look under the LEFT footrest and you should see two large drain plugs on the bottom contour of the casting. These allow you to drain the transmission and hydraulic systems. An Owners Manual will have the location and capacity of these systems, I don't have the 255 OM at hand at this time. Also an OM for the 165 would be more specific for what it requires. I definitely agree that the wet brakes of the 255 are much better than the dry brakes you have on the 165.
Good luck with the fluid change, they both probably need it :)
 
Dealer I worked for always used type A ATF in power steering pumps. Some trans-hydraulic oil would be OK too if that's what's already in the pump canister.
 
The two rear planetaries by the wheels are separate from the rest of the rear axle, and should use a 90w gear oil. The oil in the planetaries usually don't ever get changed. I change the oil in them once a year.
 
Just to add on to this, I have a 165 and
265, and service manuals for both. I use MF
Agco Permatran 821xl, which replaced the
older M1129. I use this for power steering,
planetaries, and transmission. You get
varied opinions on best oils. The books say
use Permantran grade. Definitely important
to keep these fluids full and clean, people
often neglect to check planetaries. On 255
the Diff drain is left side under pedal step
and tranny left side too. Good luck.
 
(quoted from post at 02:08:16 02/03/17) I don't know what country you're in so I can only reference U.S. Permatran equivalents. Here NAPA and many others have Universal Tractor Fluid(UTF) that meet the Permatran specs including CAT, John Deere, Case/IH, New Holland, Tractor Supply, etc. You may want to Google Permatran III to find something that is close to you.
While sitting on the 255 look under the LEFT footrest and you should see two large drain plugs on the bottom contour of the casting. These allow you to drain the transmission and hydraulic systems. An Owners Manual will have the location and capacity of these systems, I don't have the 255 OM at hand at this time. Also an OM for the 165 would be more specific for what it requires. I definitely agree that the wet brakes of the 255 are much better than the dry brakes you have on the 165.
Good luck with the fluid change, they both probably need it :)

I posted pictures of what i have.. I have drained the transmision oil. Are the brakes bathed in the transmission oil? I've removed the oil filter and the transmission drain plugs, I don't see any other plugs down there though that would be exclusively for the brakes.

The planetaries (especially the right side) were ABSOLUTELY black and thick like tar.. I think I'll run some UTF or something light in them for a few hours and change it out again.


Thanks for all the replies.. BTW, I'm in BC, Canada.
 
As long as water, and or rust colored does not oil come out of the planetaries, they should be ok. I don't know if I would put a different type of oil in the planetaries, and run it for a little bit. I'd worry about them old oil seals in them going bad because of the different type of oil.
 
(quoted from post at 01:07:49 02/05/17) As long as water, and or rust colored does not oil come out of the planetaries, they should be ok. I don't know if I would put a different type of oil in the planetaries, and run it for a little bit. I'd worry about them old oil seals in them going bad because of the different type of oil.
Nah, it looked like used engine oil.

UTF should be at least as friendly to seals as gear oil... I think a flushing of sorts would benefit it greatly.. either way it'll probably get far more frequent changes from here on in.. it's true that the planetaries are often very neglected

Here's the transmission oil filter that came out of the 165.... Yeah, I think it got a little hot once... I replaced it with an all-stainless one
20170118_173934.jpg
 
Keep in mind UTF, like ATF, has natural cleaning properties to it. It's the whole reason guys will run it in engines or other areas like you want to do. Old seals will get hard and crack and when the gunk gets rinsed off it exposes the cracks to fluids like ptfarmer was alluding to. Sounds from your description that it might be a good idea to do, just be prepared for a seal project.
 
Yeah, seals are cheaper than gears...
HOw involved is the seal changing process? It seems like taking the planetaries off would be pretty easy, remove planetary carrier, press out shaft, etc
Installation is the reverse of removal, use new gaskets and seals. torque fasteners to specifications listed at beginning of chapter :)
 
You don't want to open up the planetaries unless you really, really need to. The dealer has special tools to put the planetaries back together.
 

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