New to me 202

Timinohio

Member
My landlord has this 'ol '59 workbull 202 and said i could use it! Now its just up to me to get it running. They say it ran good, when they parked it 15 years ago. Im sure it will run good again. They used it solely for plowing the drive way. They have a plow they they fabricated that mounts in the bucket, a blade on the 3 point, and a bush hog that im going to use on this property.

Long term plans are to restore it to pristine condition. Long term of course.

They must have turned the fuel off and ran the carb dry when they parked it because it was so clean inside, not one little passage was blocked. Not even the smell of varnish when i opened it. The fuel in the tank is a different story tho. I rigged up a gallon gas can to feed it, untill i can get it to my house and take the tank off and clean or replace it. Once i get it running and shake it down real good at there farm i plan on driving it to mine, about a mile up the road.

With a new battery and "rebuilt" carb with fresh fuel supply i hopped for the best when i hit the starter button, it cranked over good, all compression cycles sounded consist, but, no fire. I just couldn't get that lucky. Didnt think so anyway. Checked and sure enough no spark. So im ordering from the store here everything from the coil to the plugs. Points and condenser, cap and rotor, and wires. Im srue that should cover anything that might be giving fits. If it dont, and the problem lies elsewhere ill fix that also and still have no worries about the ignition.

While cranking i was able to verify that the three point raised, and the loader bucket went up. So looks like all the hydraulics work. They did tell me it had a oil leak off the front of the motor when they parked it, im wondering if its the front hydraulic pump. But we'll see.

He also said it has a dual disk clutch in it. Im wondering if he ment 2 stage for a "live" pto. Hes the kinda guy that would have had that done, decades ago. Probably when you could get those clutches with out any problems. Its a jgf, if i remember that right, So no 2 stage from the factory. Again, we'll find out. If not, then it will be a over run bering with the mower.

More pictures and lots of questions to come about my new toy :D
35985.jpg
 
The 202 is pretty much like a MF35 so most parts are available. Sounds like it has a 2 stage clutch so it has live pto so that's good. The loader should have a tag was to what model of loader it is, Massey Ferguson gave their loaders different model numbers than the tractor.
 

Its a 200 loader, pretty sure of that, but iv lost all the pictures of every data plate on the tractor. Cell phones dont do well in the rain lol.
 
Ok, well it runs, i can say that.....

And it is a 101 loader, and no live pto like i thought might have been. All the hydraulics work, but.....


It is the noisiest engine I've ever heard. It sounds like every bearing in it is making noise. Especially up front with all the accessories. It won't idle, it misses like it's home sick, and after checking the float level twice it will still overfill the Bowl and dribble fuel out the intake.

It's got a new bowl gasket needle and seat and all the little felt gaskets have been replaced. New coil, cap and roter, points and condenser, and plugs. The carb was very clean, but still got a good soaking in carb cleaner for a couple days, and even tho all the holes were clear, a piece of wire ran through them, just to make sure. I'm not an expert on carburetors, but I've done a few of them. Always with good success. I'm very confident that this carburetor is clean and clear.

It ran at an elevated RPM for about 35 minutes to let it get hot. I noticed that it began circulating coolant through the radiator, but don't think that it got to the point of the thermostat being fully opened. None of the gauges work except for the ammeter so I wasn't able to tell what the temperature really was on the engine.


The points were set at a tight .028, since i couldn't find my set of feeler gauges to get the .022 that if im not mistaken is the correct gap.

Why is this thing so noisy and why won't it idle?
 
I'd put a oil pressure gauge on it, and find out what the oil pressure is at idle. I'd also do either compression test, or a leak down test. As much as I hate to say it, it sounds like it may need bearings, and a the oil pump rebuilt. I'd almost bet it has little to no oil pressure at idle.
 
And I didn't realize it until I was trying to take this picture, but there's a grease fitting there. So I'm going to squirt some grease into it next time I'm down there and see if that helps with the noise. As far as those rubber bushings in that front pulley, remember that the object is to get this thing running just good enough to make it one mile up the road to my farm where I'll have more time to work on it. As it sits now at their place I can only access it on Saturdays for about 4 hours.

I'm going to get an oil pressure gauge and put on it to check that, if it's real low on oil pressure then I'm not going to drive it. It will just take longer to get it to my place because I'll have to do the oil pump there where it's at.
 
The grease fitting is for the front axle support pivot so it won't help with the noise. Those rubber bushings in the coupler are no good so that is probably most of the noise you hear. Since the rubber bushings are out of the coupler plate the holes they go into are probably egg-shaped from the bolts so you will probably need a new coupler plate with the bushings. Since it probably has been run a lot with the bushings like that it should be able to make the drive home.
 


Ok, I've set the points at .022" and the plugs at .025" and have to say it runs better and idles a little lower. But still has a miss to it. Not as bad as before though.

Compression tests reviled 110 pounds on cylinder 1, 120 on 2, 90 on 3 and 110 on 4. These were taken before it ran, so cold and have been sitting for 2 weeks. Couldn't get to it last week with Memorial Day and my old man's birthday. And only had a few minutes this weekend, or i would have put a little oil in number 3 to see if it came up. And tested again after a short warm up.

The plugs that came outa 3 and 4 were dry with lots of soot on them. Running rich for whatever reason. 1 and 2 had a wetness to them. Again before running, so its how they were from running 2 weeks ago.

Set the points and put it back together, laid a plug up against the block and cranked it over and had a big beautiful amber Spark that filled the entire gap.

I tried to hook up an oil pressure gauge to it, but the fittings that came with the gauge did not fit the port on the side of the block. I couldn't get the 90 degree angle fitting out of the block so I'll have to get a smaller adapter to actually hook up a gauge. But I took the line off that goes to the factory gauge and crank the motor over with the ignition disabled and surely it shot oil out of the port. Now I know this isn't exactly a pressure test, but it certainly shows oil flowing while cranking.

Pending the results of a real oil pressure test and if the left front holds air, this thing will be driving around again next week for the first time in over 10 years. If it dont over heat it will be comming home a week after that!
 
Mine has a little miss to it also, and I've done everything to it short of pulling the head, having a valve job done, and replacing the sleeves, and pistons. Even though it has a little miss I can't get out it does a good job of pulling a 84" Woods mower in some very thick, and or tall grass/weeds. Here's a video of it at work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rudJBe2oZk4
 
Well, its been awhile. But good news.

Got a oil pressure gauge hooked up to it and it's got a good steady 20 pounds of oil pressure. That's cold and after I drove it around for about 30 minutes. The oil pan never got real warm but as the oil seemed to warm up the oil pressure didn't drop much, maybe down to 19 or 18 pounds. I did manage to get it to drive, the first time it's moved from that spot in nearly 15 years. As I drove it around it started to run a little better. I got it to idle a little lower, but I think I need to richen the idle mixture. I think I'll hold off on this though because I don't have an air cleaner hooked up to it. I haven't been wanting to use the oil bath cleaner until I can get it opened up and cleaned out and fresh oil put in it.

Had the bush hog on it, and when I went to spin it up the engine fan hand grenaded, taking out the radiator. So I pulled the fuel tank, and the radiator and I took it to my local shop where they're going to braise the holes that are in the radiator, clean out and reline the fuel tank. So hopefully when I get it back I'll be able to use it's own fuel tank instead of the gallon and a half can that I had rigged up.

I was so close to driving it home, but that's why I decided to shake it down real good at their property in case anything went awry. When the fan exploded I was only about a hundred feet from the barn. (insted of a half mile from my farm and there's) I was able to drive it quickly back and park it before any chance of overheating.
 
Well $250 later...

Got the fuel tank and radiator back, and the correct fan, after getting the wrong fan. New thermostat also. Stant 160 deg. Reinstalled everything and filled it with coolent. Fired it up and was going to let it run until the thermostat opened and verify that I had all of the air out of the system and that nothing leaked. As it was running I noticed the fan being mounted to the water pump pulley wood rattle severely and when I shut it off I discovered that there was a significant amount of play with the water pump pulley. I don't know if the pulley is coming loose from the water pump or if the water pump bearings are just that badly worn out but I foresee this being the next major problem. So I fired it back up and was letting it run at a Brisk Idle hoping maybe as things warmed up the tolerances in the bearings of the water pump would tighten up and it would calm down. It seems like it was doing that, and then all the sudden it just up and quit running as if I had hit the key to the off position. Looking it over and checking for spark I realized I had no spark. The coil is getting hot, but it's not sparking from anywhere.

All of the ignition components are new. I rigged up a jumper wire from the battery positive terminal to the positive side of the coil and still no spark. But like I said the call was getting hot so I suspect that it's got electricity to it.

I'm open to suggestions as to where to look. I took the cap and rotor off and all of the parts still look new, the points didn't change any settings.

This is very frustrating. But i expected it to not go willingly.
 

Hot coil might have a break opening up when warm and closing when cold . Do you have the old one ? try substituting it , new ones can fail readily don't trust it just because it's come straight out of the box .
 
Ptfarmer, I did look and make sure the distributor was turning, and it is. My family used to race a class of asphalt round track cars called ministocks. They used bigtime built ford 2300cc motors and with cold thick race oil they would frequently shear the pin on the distributor drive gear since the distributor shaft also drove the oil pump. Verifying the distributor was turning what's the first thing I did after I discovered the no spark condition.

I'd also like to thank you for all of your responses and help through this project and hope that there's some way that I can help you equally in the future.

Charles in Aus, thankyou as well for your input, i do have the old coil and will give it a try next time im down there. The motor didnt even run long enough to open a 160deg thermostat, didnt even get too hot to lay your hand on the side of the block. But the coil, when i touched it i immediately thought let that cool down before I touch it again. I did not try it after it cooled, was frustrated so i took a brake from it.
 
(quoted from post at 05:16:25 10/24/16) Ptfarmer, I did look and make sure the distributor was turning, and it is. My family used to race a class of asphalt round track cars called ministocks. They used bigtime built ford 2300cc motors and with cold thick race oil they would frequently shear the pin on the distributor drive gear since the distributor shaft also drove the oil pump. Verifying the distributor was turning what's the first thing I did after I discovered the no spark condition.



I still mess with the Ford 2300 (my 86 Ranger has one in it). I used to SCCA autocross with one in a Pinto, and I loved running almost as fast, or faster than the guys with Corvettes, and the like with it. Anyways since the coil gets really hot I'd say that's your problem, but I would get another condenser just incase.
 
So i took a closer look at the points, and i guess i didnt see that they werent opening or something. The light isent real good in this barn. But, they were not opening. I wonder if a piece of the little plastic follower broke off, or if they slipped outa adjustment. Ether way, put them back in adjustment and fire right up she did!

Then less than a minute later BAM!! goes the fan, with another hole in the radiator. A blade came off. A brand new fan, with less than 5 minutes run time!

I want to give up. I just want to call it quits.
 
I had two fans in a row break on my 35 a few years ago, when I replaced the water pump that solved the problem. I got one on eBay that wouldn't turn once I got it bolted up, then I went to the local independent tractor shop and they got me an A&I pump that was great. I bought a new fan and radiator too and it has been fine since then.
Zach
 
So i was thinking maybe the play in the water pump bearings could contribute to the fan comming apart again. Guess ill R&R the pump down there, afterall at this point most of my tools have made it down there. Might as well pull the head, drop the pan and split the case while im at it.

But i digress.....

This pump has a cone shaped pully on it. Is it held on by the 4 bolts that mount the fan? And would the water pump here in the store work with this pully or would i need to buy the pump with pully?
 
The cone is just a cover held on by the 4 fan bolts, the actual pulley is pressed on the pump shaft. You can press the pulley off the old pump, and onto the new pump, but be careful it's not too hard to break part of the pulley off (cast iron pulley). Measure the distance between the mounting face of the water pump to the pulley so when you put it on the new pump it won't be offset from the crank pulley.
 
Well it finally happened! After going so long taking 2 steps forward and one step backward I managed to get ahead of the curve. About two days ago I finally had it ironed out to where I felt confident it would make the drive home. And it did, it ran like a champ all the way to my house! It had a little trouble getting up a steep hill between there house and mine. I had to drop it down to 2nd gear High as it was bogging down. But it didnt miss a beat, ran like it wanted to get away from the garage where its spent its last decade in solitary confinement.

I had a great deal of trouble with the points through all of this. And while I understand points, I didn't know that they make a specific Lube that goes on the cam in the distributor to lubricate the rubbing block. What has been happening is that the rubbing block would get hot from the friction on the cam and ware or meltdown, closing the gap on the points and causing the tractor to quit. After I got it home and checked it over for any leaks or other issues I proceeded to Bush Hog the four tenths of an acre field that was grown up in Weeds and such to my waist. It got about halfway through it when it quit again, and when I looked at the points the rubbing block had melted completely down and there was no hope of getting the Gap set correctly again. So I ran to O'Reilly's and explained to them that I had a Delco distributor and needed points for it and we found a set of points that would work. And it did, other than the fact the rubbing block was excessively tall and the closest I could get the points Gap was about 40 to 45 thousands. So I took a file and filed down the rubbing block until I got the correct Gap. I didn't have any camlube so for the immediate time being I just took a couple drops of engine oil and put on the cam. This has actually led to dirtied and burning of the current points set, so I'm going to be getting another set of points and some proper camlube.

Other than the ignition problems, this thing is running really good. No major leaks, and it dont miss near as bad as it did. Before the first points set failed, when they were clean and gapped right, it ran so smooth and idled great.

Id like to thank Ptfarmer and everybody else that helped and gave there 2 cents in this, I hope one day I can help everyone out, like they helped me. Still, more questions to come, but will start a new thread for them, as this chapter of this tractor has come to a close, its in MY garage now. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
My 202 has the Pertronix electronic ignition installed. Haven't had to messs with it since installing it 5-6 years ago.
 
(quoted from post at 06:53:13 05/15/17) My 202 has the Pertronix electronic ignition installed. Haven't had to messs with it since installing it 5-6 years ago.

Through all of this, iv gave serous consideration to going to electronic ignition. Right now its a money thing, just dont have it. :lol:
 
That is one drawback the Continental gas engine has is getting bogged down (like going up a steep hill) my 2135 was the same way. They just don't have the torque like the Perkins engine does, but its good you get it home (makes it easier to work on it).
 
Wow! I didnt every realize that! It feals like its been a year and a half. What a coincidence. That was not on purpose :lol:
 

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