135 brakes

Loren NC · Sep 17, 2016

Help me out here. Right brake on 135 grabs. Left works great. Have had it apart twice. Not glazed, rusted, grooved or pitted. Shoe looks great. Touch the pedal and instant lockup. Where do I start? This is annoying and probably a bit dangerous.

rockepg · Sep 17, 2016

Pull the pin that locks the brake pedals together. Does each individual pedal have the same amount of travel? Most likely you need to back off the star wheel a click or two on that side.
The shoes are glued to the backers properly correct? One is not cocked. If you have the riveted kind the rivets are still tight and the shoe does not wobble around does it?

Loren NC · Sep 18, 2016

I could find nothing
wrong with them visually
and the right one grabs
whether the pedals are
locked together or not.

ptfarmer · Sep 18, 2016

Are you sure the one side is not missing a spring somewhere?

Loren NC · Sep 18, 2016

Good question. No, I am
not sure. With fluid in
the tires I only have
one wheel off at a time
so didn't compare the
sides piece by piece.
What spring would you
suspect?

Loren NC · Sep 18, 2016

I should explain that I only weigh 160 so handling fluid filled tires is a struggle. I park one wheel close to a barn support post and maneuver the wheel to lean against the post. One at a time is all I can handle.

Charles in Aus. · Sep 18, 2016

I use my phone to photograph anything complex before I tackle it . It made changing the belt on my John Deere mower possible . Try photographing both brake drum assemblies then compare .
Years ago I owned a Triumph roadster that kept rupturing the rhs brake cylinder . The local mechanic repaired it three times before I lost patience and looked at it myself . I took both wheels off and compared the cylinders . Turns out a previous owner had used an old Holden wheel cylinder as a replacement .
Local mechanic admitted he only ever looked at the busted one .

Loren NC · Sep 18, 2016

I think taking a picture would be the only way I could compare the two sides. Maybe parts diagram would work also. Might have to look for one before I take either side off again. Thanks for the idea.

rockepg · Sep 18, 2016

I hear ya on moving the filled tires. I am 215 pounds and i have a hard time with them too. There is only a few parts to the brakes and should be able to easily account for them. Lets start with the back side. You have the star adjuster assembly with one spring that pulls the shoes together onto the adjuster. On the actuator side you have a plate that crosses the actuator and both shoes to hold them onto the posts so they dont come off. Each shoe will have one spring that goes from the shoe to the post just over that plate. The shoes themselves will have two pins that go through the backing plate and through the shoe itself with a little arrow head. A capture "puck" slides over the pin and onto the shoe then a spring and another puck compresses the spring and slides over the arrow and turned 90 degrees to lock it in place. That is all there is to it for parts.
Is there any brake pedal travel for that side or is rock solid right at the top?

Loren NC · Sep 18, 2016

There is pedal play. It
has been a couple or
three weeks since I had
it apart last time, so I
will have to open it
again and study the
pieces. I have worked on
many brakes during my
lifetime but not on
tractors. I didn't
notice anything out of
place or missing but
will have to go in one
more time I guess.

ptfarmer · Sep 18, 2016

If you haven't looked at the side where the brakes don't seem to work I would look at that one. The problem could be on that side, it could have worn out shoes. On tractors with filled tires I have seen that a few times because some people don't want to handle two tires that are filled. Another question is what are you doing with the tractor, do you really need filled tires? If you are not doing any real pulling like plowing, filled tires aren't really needed.

Loren NC · Sep 19, 2016

I have had that side
apart twice and didn't
see anything that looked
wrong. As for use, it is
primarily used for
rotary mowing, but the
area is hilly and the
fluid is really helpful
whenever and wherever I
have to back up a hill,
which does happen. Also
I use a six foot scraper
blade for driveway
maintenance and I drag
logs out of the woods.
Compared to the old J-D
1010 I traded for this
135, this does a
wonderful job.

rockepg · Sep 19, 2016

Real quick before you pull the tire off look at the backing plate from the axle side. At the top and bottom you should see the back of the two pins that hold the shoes to the plate. Are both pins present? Can you move them with your finger or are they tight against the plate? Another thing to look at when you take the drum back off is the lands or flat spots where the shoes ride on the plate. You'll have to disconnect the shoes but check those spots and see if they have groves worn in them. Sometimes you can get one that is worn funky and might be forcing the shoe to sit at an unusual angle. If all that is good i would start backing off the star wheel. It might be that its simply to tight. When you get the drum off can you post a picture or two of what things look like?

Loren NC · Sep 19, 2016

Thanks. I will do that.
I feel certain the
adjuster is not too
tight. Otherwise the
drum would not pull off
easily. But since I
haven't figured out the
answer, everything is
suspect.

rockepg · Sep 19, 2016

One other thing to check while you have it off is the position of the actuator. It sits under that plate in the front under those two springs i described. With no pressure on the pedal is that bar parallel to the ground or is it twisted towards the shoes. It should be pretty close to parallel. If its twisted then most likely someone preloaded the connector rod which would explain things.
If you are familiar with drum brakes on cars then you'll be right at home with these. Almost identical except you have no cylinders to leak or parking brake pieces to deal with

Loren NC · Sep 19, 2016

Thanks again. Likely
will be a few days
before I can take it
apart again but I will
be back with more
questions or the answer.

Loren NC · Sep 20, 2016

I have it opened up again. All four shoe retainers are in place. Star wheel spring is in place. Two shoe closer springs are in place. Drum looks like new. Shoes are over half remaining. Press the pedal. Top shoe moves. Bottom one does not. Removed the big springs. Removed the keeper plate. Press the pedal. Bottom shoe moves, top does not. Took hold of the actuator shaft and tried moving it. It will move up and down probably 3/16". It has a dust cover over the backing plate hole, but shouldn't there be a bushing in there to keep it from moving around? If not, the loosest shoe and the shaft will move while the other one just sets there.

rockepg · Sep 20, 2016

Mine flops around like that too. The tension between the two shoes keeps it mostly centered. So now that you have it apart is the actuator bar parallel to the ground or at an angle? When you turn it both shoes should move evenly. If it's only moving one that is your problem. Pressure that is supposed to move both shoes is only being applied to one shoe at twice the force which i imagine would give a nice lock up effect. Need to figure out why that other shoe won't move. Take that shoe off and look at the lands on the backing plate. Are there big groves in them preventing the shoe from moving?

Loren NC · Sep 20, 2016

I have not removed the shoe yet. As soon as I removed the front plate from the pins where the big springs hook, I discovered how much the shaft moves so I came to my computer to see if I can find a bushing for it. So far I see no indication that there is any, which leaves me to do what you said and pull the shoe to look behind it. Can't believe there is no bushing for that hole. So far I have only found one diagram which shows the actuator rod. It showed no bushing in the diagram. Time to go take it apart a bit farther.

ptfarmer · Sep 20, 2016

It either wore the hole in the backing plate out, or it wore the shaft.

Loren NC · Sep 20, 2016

So the hole is supposed to be the same size as the shaft? It could only be the same in the horizontal dimension because vertically it has to be larger to let the actuator bar pass through the plate. Seems to me there would be a bushing to make it fit both directions.

Loren NC · Sep 20, 2016

Well young man (Rockepg, can I assume that?), you walked me to the problem even if I am a slow learner. The backing plate is grooved significantly enough on the bottom to keep the shoe from moving. The top is starting to groove but not significantly yet. Only the contact point nearest the actuator is grooved from both shoes. I assume the groove would have to make the shoe set slightly off kilter also. But the question now remains, what is the solution? I can easily grind the lip off the edge and it will move again, but that won't solve the fact that one end of the shoe will be slightly closer to the backing plate than the other end. Obviously I could buy a new backing plate. What about running a light weld in the groove and then grinding it smooth? I use the tractor to mow about nine acres three or four times a year, so it isn't like it gets over worked. Grinding it smooth will probably work for longer than I will be alive to use it.

rockepg · Sep 20, 2016

Well if 47 is young then sure

You have two choices really. First is to replace the backing plate. Second would be to run a weld down the groves and grind flat again. Mig, tig or braze would do the trick. Just depends on what you have, if any. You want those flat and even or the shoes will be off kilter like you said.

Loren NC · Sep 20, 2016

I have arc but am not
sure enough of my
welding skills to tackle
something that needs to
be rather refined.
Probably will remove the
plate and take it
somewhere. Twelve bolts
appear to hold it in
place.

rockepg · Sep 20, 2016

The whole axle comes out to get that plate off. Not a big deal unless you have the locking differential. While you are at it spend the 5 bucks and replace the axle seal as cheap insurance. Arc welder would blow through the plate and not be good at all.

Loren NC · Sep 20, 2016

YAY! It is fixed! I took the easy way out and used a side grinder to smooth the contact point that was grooved. Not the correct solution but it works beautifully now and will last another twenty years or so. That will probably be longer than I will last so life is good again. Thanks for all the input from all of you who offered guidance.

rockepg · Sep 20, 2016

Glad to hear it!

135 brakes

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