The many issues with my new to me 135

nrowles · Jul 4, 2016

Please forgive my wall of text and I appreciate any help on any of my issues. I severely need some diagnosing assistance.

Picked up a 1966 135 diesel on Saturday. Looked it over pretty good the last couple days.

I will be at a computer tomorrow where I can post pictures and details of my purchase. In the meantime I would like to ask some questions.

First, I did buy a shop manual but am still having issues diagnosing some things. I am feeling very overwhelmed right now and think I made a bad purchase. This tractor appears to need a lot.

1. With both 3 pt levers all the way back, the 3 pt does not stay up when turned off even without a load. The draft lever feels like it has very little friction/resistance. Is that normal? Can the draft lever get out of place or malfunction? The position lever when all the way back can be pulled out a bit past a "notch" and pulled back further but I thought for some reason that is a no-no??? Any ideas on where I go from here? You may want to read #3 below before answering.

2. There is a very small bolt/screw in the right side of the engine block with nothing attached to it. It seems to be seeping coolant. ???

3. There seems to be 2 seep holes underneath. One at the rear main seal that has a cotter pin and one under the transmission that does not have a cotter pin. They both appear to be seeping hydraulic fluid. I assume I have a leak somewhere and this may be related to my question #1 above? How do I get a cotter pin back in the hole under the transmission?

4. Power steering pump is empty and I believe it has engine oil leaking from it. Is this possible? I still have yet to get some fluid and put in it.

5. Sometimes the tractor will jump when I put it in gear. The clutch seems to be strong though. I am hoping this is just a pedal adjustment.

Following are things I will be doing. I don't really have any questions but if something doesn't sound right let me know.

Brakes aren't working well. The guy I bought it off of said he made the screw adjustments on drums and that didn't help. I will take the drum off and see what it looks like in there. Maybe fluid on the pads.

The injector leak off pipe has drops of fuel coming off it. I will replace it and hopefully that fixes it. I will be draining all fuel at the same time because the fuel is almost milky and looks old.

Engine smokes a bit so I am assuming an overhaul at some point but that's not a priority right now.

If you even read this far you can see why I am overwhelmed.

DavidP, South Wales · Jul 4, 2016

Hi, had to print your message to make sure that I had everything!
Hope you were able to get the genuine MF manual, well worth any difference in price. There do appear to be a
number of issues but hopefully we can work through them one at a time;
1. When you switch the engine off it is quite normal for the linkage to drop. The question is how long does it
take? If it drops within 2 minutes of stopping then that suggests an internal leak. If it takes anything over 5
minutes then that is more normal. Is this with an implement attached?
The DRAFT lever operates on a spring internally so the load remains quite constant that you have to apply to move
it. If the lever moves easily then the damper washers between the lever and the quadrant are likely to be worn or
the spring has rusted and lost it's pressure to damp the lever movement. When you move the POSITION lever past the
stop you are moving into the CONSTANT PUMPING section. This should be used when you require a supply of oil to
lift a front end loader or tip a trailer for example. The arms will rise slightly but the valve should not blow
off because oil is being supplied elsewhere. The system should not be allowed to blow off for longer than is
absolutely necessary.

2. Where on the side of the block is this screw. Is it possible that there was a small crack in the block and
someone has drilled and tapped it to try and seal it?

3. The weep holes under the clutch housing are to allow any oil that may pass the rear crankshaft and input shaft
into the gearbox to drain away. The reason for the split pins is that oil will seep along the split-pin easily
whereas it would be likely to block a plain hole and fill with debris. The split-pin will keep moving and maintain
a passage. If you can be sure that it is transmission fluid and not engine oil then it would appear to be coming
from the input housing. The transmission split pin can be replaced easily by removing the plate under the clutch
housing. You can then reach inside and fit the split pin and open the legs. Use a flashlight and inspect the
interior of the housing. This will give you a better idea of where the oil is coming from and how much damage it
might have done. If there is a film of oil over the clutch unit then the likelyhood is that one or both plates
will be contaminated with oil.

If the steering pump is empty the likelyhood is that the oil has leaked into the engine. If the pwer steering
system is integral in the steering box or has seperate cylinders there may be a leak there. Being an early US
tractor I believe that you will have an integral unit. Normally the seal at the front of the pump will split or
harden and allow oil through. There may of course be wear in the pump bushings will will reduce the efficiency of
the seal.

The tractor 'jumping' when you put it into gear is a symptom of an oil contaminated clutch plate where the oil
drag causes an immediate, although short 'engagement' of the clutch. You should have one to one and a half inches
of free pedal travel with forward disengagement taking place by about half pedal travel when you encounter the
second or PTO stage. Pressing the pedal further ideally should disengage the PTO with about one inch of travel
remaining.

The screw adjustments that have apparently been made probably refer to the adjusters to set the face of the shoes
parallel to the drum face. If the seals are allowing oil to pass onto the shoes evidence of this can normally be
seen on the inside face of the backplates. I suspect that the shaft cams are likely to be worn and are allowing
the operating levers to come forward too far before actuating brake pressure. Stand on either side of the tractor
with the brakes applied. Look inwards along the brake shafts and you will see the operating arms which attach to
the brake rods. If these arms are forward of vertical then the cams in the drum will be worn. The tips of the
brake shoes may be worn as well. The good news is that they can be built up with weld and ground back to size. It
does not matter what else you do....worn cams....poor brakes.

The injector drain pipe leak could be due to a leaking 5/16" copper or aluminium washer or might just need
tightening a little. If the fuel is discoloured it and all the filters should be changed as quickly as possible.
Don't forget the strainer above the fuel tap in the tank and there should be a gauze above the lift pump bowl.

What colour smoke are you getting from the engine? It may be fuel related especially if the thermostart heating
aid (if fitted in the inlet manifold) is leaking.

A lot of issues but probably none that can't be resolved.

Let us know what you find.

DavidP, South Wales

ptfarmer · Jul 4, 2016

(quoted from post at 15:18:50 07/04/16) Hi, had to print your message to make sure that I had everything!
Hope you were able to get the genuine MF manual, well worth any difference in price. There do appear to be a
number of issues but hopefully we can work through them one at a time;
1. When you switch the engine off it is quite normal for the linkage to drop. The question is how long does it
take? If it drops within 2 minutes of stopping then that suggests an internal leak. If it takes anything over 5
minutes then that is more normal. Is this with an implement attached?
The DRAFT lever operates on a spring internally so the load remains quite constant that you have to apply to move
it. If the lever moves easily then the damper washers between the lever and the quadrant are likely to be worn or
the spring has rusted and lost it's pressure to damp the lever movement. When you move the POSITION lever past the
stop you are moving into the CONSTANT PUMPING section. This should be used when you require a supply of oil to
lift a front end loader or tip a trailer for example. The arms will rise slightly but the valve should not blow
off because oil is being supplied elsewhere. The system should not be allowed to blow off for longer than is
absolutely necessary.

2. Where on the side of the block is this screw. Is it possible that there was a small crack in the block and
someone has drilled and tapped it to try and seal it?

3. The weep holes under the clutch housing are to allow any oil that may pass the rear crankshaft and input shaft
into the gearbox to drain away. The reason for the split pins is that oil will seep along the split-pin easily
whereas it would be likely to block a plain hole and fill with debris. The split-pin will keep moving and maintain
a passage. If you can be sure that it is transmission fluid and not engine oil then it would appear to be coming
from the input housing. The transmission split pin can be replaced easily by removing the plate under the clutch
housing. You can then reach inside and fit the split pin and open the legs. Use a flashlight and inspect the
interior of the housing. This will give you a better idea of where the oil is coming from and how much damage it
might have done. If there is a film of oil over the clutch unit then the likelyhood is that one or both plates
will be contaminated with oil.

If the steering pump is empty the likelyhood is that the oil has leaked into the engine. If the pwer steering
system is integral in the steering box or has seperate cylinders there may be a leak there. Being an early US
tractor I believe that you will have an integral unit. Normally the seal at the front of the pump will split or
harden and allow oil through. There may of course be wear in the pump bushings will will reduce the efficiency of
the seal.

The tractor 'jumping' when you put it into gear is a symptom of an oil contaminated clutch plate where the oil
drag causes an immediate, although short 'engagement' of the clutch. You should have one to one and a half inches
of free pedal travel with forward disengagement taking place by about half pedal travel when you encounter the
second or PTO stage. Pressing the pedal further ideally should disengage the PTO with about one inch of travel
remaining.

The screw adjustments that have apparently been made probably refer to the adjusters to set the face of the shoes
parallel to the drum face. If the seals are allowing oil to pass onto the shoes evidence of this can normally be
seen on the inside face of the backplates. I suspect that the shaft cams are likely to be worn and are allowing
the operating levers to come forward too far before actuating brake pressure. Stand on either side of the tractor
with the brakes applied. Look inwards along the brake shafts and you will see the operating arms which attach to
the brake rods. If these arms are forward of vertical then the cams in the drum will be worn. The tips of the
brake shoes may be worn as well. The good news is that they can be built up with weld and ground back to size. It
does not matter what else you do....worn cams....poor brakes.

The injector drain pipe leak could be due to a leaking 5/16" copper or aluminium washer or might just need
tightening a little. If the fuel is discoloured it and all the filters should be changed as quickly as possible.
Don't forget the strainer above the fuel tap in the tank and there should be a gauze above the lift pump bowl.

What colour smoke are you getting from the engine? It may be fuel related especially if the thermostart heating
aid (if fitted in the inlet manifold) is leaking.

A lot of issues but probably none that can't be resolved.

Let us know what you find.

DavidP, South Wales

X2 on what DavidP said. Most of the problems you have are not too terribly hard to fix. If you are good on working on cars, tractors for the most part are easier to fix. I would rather split a tractor to replace a clutch than crawl under a car to replace a clutch any day!

nrowles · Jul 4, 2016

I really appreciate your reply. This is very helpful.

I'm pretty sure I got the genuine manual. Maybe not. Paid $35 at tractor supply for it.

3 pt. There is no implement attached and it takes about 30 minutes. I have a Ford 1500 that will hold my 400lb box blade up overnight so this just seemed odd to me that it would drop like that. The previous owner was clueless on this tractor. He said he did have the lever on constant pumping one time and it was making a terrible noise and he pushed lever forward. Not sure how long it was on constant pumping. Could this have done damage and where did it put the fluid from the release valve being pressurized?

The screw is directly behind the front of the starter. It is also directly below the block heater plug, which now that I think about it could also be where the coolant seep is coming from and collecting on the screw.

It is definitely transmission fluid from undercarriage seep holes because it is golden in color and my engine oil is not fresh and is black. If it is coming from the input housing I would assume that is something that would require a fixin and could it be the cause of the 3 pt dropping if in fact that is a problem?

I believe I have an integral unit. I don't see any external cylinders if that's what you mean. And it does look like the oil collection was at the seal on the front of the pump. I guess I will fill it with fluid and see what happens? If it is leaking into the engine oil SHOULD a new pump fix the problem?

I adjusted the clutch pedal to 3/4" per my manual for a 2 stage clutch. This did not change anything. I think it could be safe to say that my clutch is contaminated with oil coming out of the seep holes. If you read my post from yesterday I had pushed a small piece of wire into the seep hole and about 4 oz of fluid flowed out. It was plugged up because no split pin.

I will check the brakes tomorrow.

I did tighten the injector drain pipe which was pretty loose and that seemed to work. Yay! I will flush and refuel ASAP.

The smoke seems to be white. It is also coming out the engine oil dipstick tube. Engine oil is black, no white in it or smell of fuel. Coolant is nice and green. And while I'm talking fluids, the hydraulic fluid is nice and golden.

samn40 · Jul 4, 2016

As David has said, plus....Tip, you are over thinking everything! David will confirm that we have these bomb proof 135s working away over here on yard scrapers on dairy farms day in day out in pure cow muck and no-one ever does anything to them
except ill treat them and they still work away!....Don't get too excited about the oil leaking into the clutch housing, there are two holes to let it out, just don't fill the rear end so full unless you are using large remote cylinders....normally if the oil is
touching the bottom of the dipstick then it is OK and there will be less pressure on the front oil seal.....replace those washers on the draft lever and tighten the spring and that should be OK......Get a cotter pin which has a head just about too big for
that weep hole and drive it up in from below...it works, I have done it many times!...Jack one rear wheel off the ground and with a large slot screwdriver reach in and click the brake adjuster up until the wheel locks solid....(on both sides levering
towards the axle tightens the brake.)..now just back it off until the wheel just releases, do the same on the other side. Drive the tractor in high first gear and stand on each pedal until the tractor is labouring....join up the pedals again and adjust until
they are locking evenly.... I can not say for sure but sometimes the smoke with these engines is because they were not worked hard enough and the bores have got glazed....The Perkins diesel loves real hard work!...............Sam

FBH44 · Jul 5, 2016

Yes, when I finally got around to paying attention to the owner's manual for my Perkins diesel, it said to warm it u for 3 minutes at 1200 RPM, and operate under load at 1700 RPM. Do not just let it idle along, or be gentle with it, or just lope along. Get it up and work it. When I did that, it stopped slobbering fuel out the exhaust, stopped smoking, and runs just fine.

nrowles · Jul 5, 2016

Thanks for all the info guys. Tractors like this are somewhat new to me so I am a bit overwhelmed. I was just worried I might have to spend the next few months rebuilding the hydraulics, clutch and engine on top of the other little problems. I could do it with the manual but it would take me a while. And I want to use it.

ptfarmer · Jul 5, 2016

The 30 minute leak down on the 3 point is not too bad, if it leaked down in 30 seconds that's another story.
The manual you got from TS is probably the I&T manual which is not the best, but better than nothing, if you want to get the MF shop manual go here http://www.agcopubs.com/
If you are in North American you can look up part numbers online here http://agcopartsbooks.com/PartsBooksN/Viewer/Default.aspx?
The block heater plug could be your coolant leak.
If the trans/hydraulic oil that is leaking is clear, and not cloudy that's a good sign (no water in the oil).
Since the weep hole got plugged up it could have contaminated the clutch with oil, you can remove the plate on the bottom of the bellhousing (4 bolts), and look at the clutch to see if it got oil on the clutch.

nrowles · Jul 6, 2016

Below are some pictures regarding the braking issue.

First picture is looking straight down on the braking arm. With brake applied it may be very slightly forward of vertical but it would be very minimal. The other side is exactly vertical.

The next 2 pictures would be right wheel. You can see where I was poking around at the oil.

The last 2 pictures are the left wheel. It's much harder to see but there is a smaller amount of oil on that wheel as well and you can't see this but if I look in the small crease between the drum and plate there is an oily sheen inside. The dirt on the wheel is darker and damp.

Would you agree that based on these pictures and info that the brakes may be working properly (with the arm staying vertical when applied) and the seals and pads need replaced?

ptfarmer · Jul 6, 2016

New oil seals on the axles, and new brake shoes should fix your brakes. Once the shoes get oil on them they don't want to work very good.

nrowles · Jul 9, 2016

I have taken the plate off under the clutch. I know nothing about clutches other than use of them. Never even seen one in front of me so I'm not 100% on what is what. It would appear that my input shaft is definitely leaking transaxle fluid. From what I can see the clutch bearings have oil on them but the clutch itself does not. Does this make sense? Below are some pictures. Can I use the tractor as is or does this REQUIRE a repair? Splitting a tractor seems it would be a big undertaking for me.

Also, I have not used the tractor other than moving it around before tearing into it. What I have noticed is that it will SOMETIMES "jump" when putting it in gear. The clutch seems strong from what I can tell though. Put it in high gear and let the clutch go and there is no slipping. Grips and goes.

ptfarmer · Jul 9, 2016

The clutch probably has some oil on it, if it takes awhile for a drop of trans/hyd fluid to form the seals aren't completely gone yet.

The many issues with my new to me 135

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