Hydraulic pumps on Massey 165 *PICTURES*

Hey all!

I have a Massey 165 that my homestead uses on a pretty regular basis. I got it 3 years ago and its hardly given me a hiccup until now. I recently purchased a PTO driven M14 Foley Belsaw Sawmill. The blade is hammered perfect for a Massey 165 and its cuts anything you feed it AWESOME!

My problem is that just the other day, the front end hydraulics stopped working. They won't lift. The rear hydraulics and PTO work perfectly fine. It's only the front end loader that won't lift.
How can the back end hydraulics work but the front will not??

Does the 165 have 2 pumps? What do I need to check. I really use this tractor a lot and need the front end to be working.

The hydraulic fluid levels are full.
Everything else on the tractor seems to work fine.

Included below are pics...because a post without pics would be boring. :)
 
Well the upload photos didn't work. but here you go.
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Its hard to tell from your pictures where the feed for the front spool valve comes from?....if it comes from the plate just below the PTO lever then the auxilary pump has issues, either an internal cracked pipe or a sheared pump drive, if it comes from the top lift cover then maybe your diverter is not set correctly?...more pics please...follow the hoses from the front spool block and lets see where the supply comes from.....Sam
 
I'm with Sam, need to know where the loader spool valves get there oil flow from. Is there a front mount pump driven from the crank pulley? If so and it has a spline drive could be the coupler and shaft splines are stripped, and not turning the loader pump.
 

Ok guys thanks. The hydraulic line for the loader comes from the left side near where my left foot sits. The rear hydraulic lines come from basically under my seat.

I also should have mentioned that I don't see any hydraulic leaks in any of the lines.

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What do I look for now?
 
The loader valve supply line is connected to the left side cover auxiliary output port. Next question, does the Multi-Power high side work and/or the PTO clutch? If not then something's failed on the auxiliary side. Could be the gearset drive inside, it's at the front on top of the three point pump. Could be a sheared key inside the pump also.
 
That is not plumbed correctly, the two pipes coming out of the PTO plate originally were a feed and return, The return taking pressure to the IPTO pack or the multi-power pack.....or at least to the oil cooler. the way it is plumbed the loader has priority
with the oil being dumped back into the casing through the port for the speed controller. WRONG!......Anyway.If you need your loader urgently, take off that feed pipe from the PTO plate and put on a loop pipe to the port beside it.then plug your loader
supply pipe into one of the rear spools. The return that you have is sufficient for this.....But you need to find what harm has been done internally. It is as Dieseltec has said, either a bust pipe or a sheared drive in the pump.....I have yet to see a Massey
Tractor in America plumbed correctly for loader use!!!.........The correct way is for a feed off the top isolator valve with a non return valve in the line, and also a feed off the pressure pipe at the PTO plate(auxillary pump) again with a non return
valve...These two lines now need plumbed into a 'T" piece connector and one pipe from there to the spool valve. The return from the spool valve then neede a larger bore hose and is returned to the return port on the PTO plate.....You now have
combined hydraulics with real good flow and pressure. That little auxillary pump is just for lift disc wheels and light work, it will not stick the pressures of a loader!.........Sam
 
Sam, all the US tractors here will work the loader just fine on the auxiliary pump by itself, dad's 180 has for years. Main thing I see in the photos is this tractor does not have the original auxiliary mounted spool valve, so they are using the loader valve instead. The loader should have the return line back to the cover return line, but I see it at the diff case top front. This will work but not the best as the unused elbow would need capped to keep air out of the return side back to the pump. I know MF had combining valves to tie both the three point and auxiliary pumps together, but I've never seen one. If I recall the auxiliary pump high flow side was about 12 GPM and worked well compared to the old system using the scotch yoke pump only. I did have a 265 last summer that suddenly lost pressure, it had the curved steel line inside that comes off the pump to the side cover split about two inches long. Had 700 PSI at the outlets instead of 2000 as it should have. I still wonder what could have broke on this 165..
 
Hey Diesel Tech,

If you look at my last pic, the hose coming out closest to the PTO bar on the plate is capped off. You can't see it because its below the foot rest.

The hose to the left goes to the loader.

What do I need to take apart to see what's broke? Do I need to take off that plate to gain access?
 
I had a hunch it was capped, as that fitting goes back to the auxiliary pump inlet. What really SHOULD have been done is to put the valve return line to that fitting. The left side cover can't be removed until the three point lift cover is off as there are lines hooked inside. DON'T pull the cover until you study a manual first, or linkage will be damaged. There's a roller inside the right cover to remove first. Will the loader try to do anything at all? If so it may be like the 265 that I had where the steel line split that comes from the auxiliary pump to the side cover pressure port. If I have you thoroughly confused call me some evening, five seven four, eight three five three two nine two. If no answer leave a message and I'll get back to you, sometimes I don't hear it when I have a diesel pump running on the test stand.
 
(quoted from post at 14:13:26 06/23/16) I had a hunch it was capped, as that fitting goes back to the auxiliary pump inlet. What really SHOULD have been done is to put the valve return line to that fitting. The left side cover can't be removed until the three point lift cover is off as there are lines hooked inside. DON'T pull the cover until you study a manual first, or linkage will be damaged. There's a roller inside the right cover to remove first. Will the loader try to do anything at all? If so it may be like the 265 that I had where the steel line split that comes from the auxiliary pump to the side cover pressure port. If I have you thoroughly confused call me some evening, five seven four, eight three five three two nine two. If no answer leave a message and I'll get back to you, sometimes I don't hear it when I have a diesel pump running on the test stand.

Thanks! What's too late to call? I'm CST and I really need to get out to my garden tonight before the sun goes down and tie up some tomato plants. I have a number of questions for you. If not I can call tomorrow evening.
 

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