24 Speed Transmission massey 2705

Paul (WI)

New User
This message is a reply to an archived post by Paul WI on March 07, 2016 at 14:30:08.
The original subject was "Re: 24 Speed Transmission Questions".

So here's what I think I found out. I took the main hydraulic pump out of my tractor last week and took it apart. The aluminum bores in the pump itself where the gears run are around .006-.018 larger than the high end of the tolerance and the brass bushing bores the gears go into are also .002-.011 over the high tolerance. We checked the flow for both the high volume (2000 psi) side of main pump and the low volume (300 psi) side before pulling the pump and both were only 50-60% volume of what they were supposed to be. We split the tractor last weekend and took the input assembly out, smaller "o" ring in low piston was blown out, intermediate clutch disc is warped around 1"!, friction is wore pretty bad especially on the inside part of it. Low disc is warped around 1/4" and friction is wore about the same. High discs and frictions are ok, but there is a blown sealing ring on the transmission brake support which effects your high pressure.So here is my guess on what happened. I rebuilt the engine like I said last spring. About 10 hrs into hay season reverse started acting up and about 10 more hours low started to as well. I ran the tractor around 100 hours like this and tried to use intermediate as much as possible but my nephew's were running it some as well and im sure they were running high range some and possibly low . I think the shavings from the clutch packs plugged the hydraulic filters bad enough to bypass them and run dirty oil through the pumps and destroy them as well. Im scared my aux pump on left side is somewhat compromised too but im going to try to run it for this year. Bottom line.....if you lose reverse in these tractors PARK THEM!! I could have split this tractor , pulled the powershift and put in an entire set of new o rings for $170 and put it back together in around 2-3 nights. Now im going to be putting over $3000.00 of o rings, clutches and at least one pump into it. Dave B at Kuhn Equipment in Illinois has been very helpful with information on this transmission, and also id recommend ordering your parts through them guys. Also the Jensales service manual I ordered is well worth the money. Step by step instructions and pictures on each step.
 
I rebuilt mine 2 years ago and glad i did.I ended up spending 1700 thats new o rings 1 friction disc 1 metal disc and new clutch press plate and throw out bearing.Have been running it working ground runs great.That perkins sure runs smooth.
 
ward, did you replace o rings in high clutch set piston? I am worried about the o-rings trying to turn inside out when trying to install. They are tapered o rings and it seems like its going to be a battle. I work at a machine shop and am thinking I am going to make around a .015 thick sleeve for the inner and outer o rings and putting them sleeves on the piston over the o rings and then when placing the piston in bore hoping the sleeve will start in the bore just a bit before the o-rings can get stuck on upper chamfers before actually starting in the bore. I see in my jensales manual they sell a nuday tool set for this that looks like about what I am going to make. Any other thoughts. Im thinking on calling dave Monday and asking him if I cant figure it out.
 
replaced all o rings got a complete kit no sense doing it half assed. If i remember correctly i lubed them up really well and when installing them into the bores i used a straight pick and went around the o rings as i was pushing on the piston.It must have worked i was a little concerned with that myself.Another thought i was thinking about trying was getting some brass shim stock and using that around the piston as i installed it in the bore.Like i said the pick worked for me just take your time. Good luck if i can be any more help you know how to find me.Yes dave at kuhns was a wealth of knowledge on that unit too.
 
ward, I made steel bushings today which is basically the same idea as your brass shim stock I think. I should have my parts tomarrow ill let you know how my progress goes. Ill pick up a decent pick tomarrow too. And like you said...take my time
Thanks,
 
Ok , so we got all new o rings, discs and plates I'm trans. I used a pick to install my high pack inner o ring seal as well. Just worked it around carefully until the piston basically dropped in. Also I saved $750.00 on the thick friction plate between intermediate and low cluthes. It was warped .014 and i work at a machine shop so we ground it flat which took around .020 to clean up then to get the gear sets and intermediate clutch sets back in spec I made .020 thicker 9/16 spacers and I made a completely new locating plate which is the uppermost plate under the two bevel springs which is also .020 thicker. ( in hindsight I woulda just spent the $750 I think,I got over 12 hours into making parts) ok so trans is back together , tractor halves are back together and everything's connected up front just have to install new main hydraulic pump and filters. With new pump it has a tag that says to back out relief valve and run with no load for three minutes. In the Jensales book it says with new or rebuilt pump to just not run any hydraulics ( brakes , steering, pto etc) for three minutes then start loading it. Also from the way it sounds Dave at kuhns was telling me to run it through the power shift a few times during start up to get oil going through everything real well in new trans clutches and discs but always start with clutch pedel depressed and in intermediate. I'm just wondering possibly Wards input or anyone else familiar with these tractors exactly what procedure to use on start up. I'm also picking up one more 500# hydraulic gauge today to hopefully dial in my pressures for trans right where they have to be 290-320 according to book. I'm sorry this is long just hoping to start up this afternoon. Any input is appreciated.
 
Paul i hope everything will run perfectly for you on start up.Dave gave me the same advice on start up.I dont think there is any
real tricks other than what Dave told you.The only thing i had to do is adjust new clutch i didnt have to mess with the pressures
they were within specs right off the bat.I didnt replace the hydraulic pump though either.Dave did advise me to use good quality oil
though he and others did say there is a difference in quality.I used case/ih hytran a little more money but worth it.Hope yours
works as good as mine. good luck.
 
(quoted from post at 22:45:29 06/18/16) Paul i hope everything will run perfectly for you on start up.Dave gave me the same advice on start up.I dont think there is any
real tricks other than what Dave told you.The only thing i had to do is adjust new clutch i didnt have to mess with the pressures
they were within specs right off the bat.I didnt replace the hydraulic pump though either.Dave did advise me to use good quality oil
though he and others did say there is a difference in quality.I used case/ih hytran a little more money but worth it.Hope yours
works as good as mine. good luck.
Everything worked as it should ward, steering is nice and responsive now, I got three gauges hooked up on the multipower pressure ports and I'm going to just leave them there all the time. All pressures were at 300 psi right away. My multipower pressure switch got tweaked tjough and my light is staying on even in intermediate so I ordered a new one. Sure is nice to have reverse again! This was actually a fun and enjoying project. I'm ready to knock down some hay.
 
Well bad news, I got about 75 hours on the new trans and every now and then it would start laboring the engine when switching from intermediate to high or low, but it would only labor for a split second then it would be fine and pressures were still fine at three ports,it seemed like it would just do it the first shift of the day and then was fine, then it got to the point it'd do it every time I shifted but just a split second, now a couple days later it won't quite laboring the engine and it just won't shift into low or high, I'm afraid it's trying to engage two clutch packs so I just quite trying it. Any ideas? This tractors just starting to really frustrate me, between the price of the tractor, the new engine, trans and pumps I got $22,000.00 into an 8 speed tractor with no reverse, I really should have just bought a new tractor 4 years ago but that's water under the bridge.
 
The shift valve may just need a good cleaning, that's what controls the clutches. Make sure what MF calls timing pins are in the right places on the valve too, that can adversely affect shift range changes. Make sure the gaskets are not blown also..
 

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