Massey 135 Coolant Leak from Cyl. Head

RedBarnNate · Apr 19, 2016

Hello! We have a 135 that showed up at our shop. The customer complaint is coolant leak. When running for 5 minutes at high idle, coolant begins to seep out from between the cyl. head and the top deck of the block. The tractor was at another repair shop one year ago. We were told that the previous repair shop resurfaced the cyl. head & reinstalled. Possible cause of current leak?

1. Improper torque of cyl head bolts or nuts on studs?
2. Incorrect head gasket installed?
3. Reused stretched studs? (I don't think these are torque to yield studs/bolts....anyone?)
4. Crack in cyl. head (not sure if head was magnaflux inspected at previous repair shop).

Feel free to chime in =).

ptfarmer · Apr 19, 2016

(quoted from post at 09:22:10 04/19/16) Hello! We have a 135 that showed up at our shop. The customer complaint is coolant leak. When running for 5 minutes at high idle, coolant begins to seep out from between the cyl. head and the top deck of the block. The tractor was at another repair shop one year ago. We were told that the previous repair shop resurfaced the cyl. head & reinstalled. Possible cause of current leak?

1. Improper torque of cyl head bolts or nuts on studs?
2. Incorrect head gasket installed?
3. Reused stretched studs? (I don't think these are torque to yield studs/bolts....anyone?)
4. Crack in cyl. head (not sure if head was magnaflux inspected at previous repair shop).

Feel free to chime in =).

1. Probably (improper procedure)
2. Probably not (may not have used copper coat, or similar sealant)
3. Not torque to yield studs
4. Possible

RedBarnNate · Apr 19, 2016

(quoted from post at 09:51:18 04/19/16)

(quoted from post at 09:22:10 04/19/16) Hello! We have a 135 that showed up at our shop. The customer complaint is coolant leak. When running for 5 minutes at high idle, coolant begins to seep out from between the cyl. head and the top deck of the block. The tractor was at another repair shop one year ago. We were told that the previous repair shop resurfaced the cyl. head & reinstalled. Possible cause of current leak?

1. Improper torque of cyl head bolts or nuts on studs?
2. Incorrect head gasket installed?
3. Reused stretched studs? (I don't think these are torque to yield studs/bolts....anyone?)
4. Crack in cyl. head (not sure if head was magnaflux inspected at previous repair shop).

Feel free to chime in =).

Click to expand...

1. Probably (improper procedure)
2. Probably not (may not have used copper coat, or similar sealant)
3. Not torque to yield studs
4. Possible

Are you referring to using copper coat at the corners of the gasket? I found the thread below discussing this material.

http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1130921

Ok so your suspicions are the same as mine...improper torque order of nuts on studs.

I think the head should be removed and magnafluxed first before doing anything else. Agreed?

ptfarmer · Apr 19, 2016

You are going to have to pull the head to re-seal it, it wouldn't hurt to check it for cracks just to be safe. The link you provided for copper spray seal is how I do them.

RedBarnNate · Apr 19, 2016

(quoted from post at 13:02:15 04/19/16) You are going to have to pull the head to re-seal it, it wouldn't hurt to check it for cracks just to be safe. The link you provided for copper spray seal is how I do them.

Yes we planned to pull the head. Thanks for the confirmation. I'll chime in and let you know what we find.

Dieseltech · Apr 19, 2016

I'd try re-torqueing the head hardware first, since it has been apart and gasket replaced recently. I've seen lots of Z134, Z145, G176, and G193 engines that would seep coolant on the engine carb side, and stop when warmed up and the head re-torqued. I've had good results when working at the MF dealer years ago by taking the fan belt loose, the getting the engine to 185-190 degrees temp. Had a two quart portable fuel supply since the tank was off to warm the engine with. Will get up to temp a lot faster with the belt off too.

RedBarnNate · Apr 20, 2016

(quoted from post at 20:04:10 04/19/16) I'd try re-torqueing the head hardware first, since it has been apart and gasket replaced recently. I've seen lots of Z134, Z145, G176, and G193 engines that would seep coolant on the engine carb side, and stop when warmed up and the head re-torqued. I've had good results when working at the MF dealer years ago by taking the fan belt loose, the getting the engine to 185-190 degrees temp. Had a two quart portable fuel supply since the tank was off to warm the engine with. Will get up to temp a lot faster with the belt off too.

We're slightly ahead of your suggestion, but that would be a good idea.

Here's what we found. No copper spray gasket sealant on either side of the gasket. Half of the head stud nuts were super loose and easy to remove. The other half of the nuts were very tight. I think someone improperly torqued these head stud nuts.

The customer requested we replace the studs/nuts/gasket/misc hoses/engine oil/filter. At my recommendation to check the head for cracks, he said that the other shop that did the resurfacing on the head last year said they had it checked for cracks. I explained that they also told him they torqued the head stud nuts properly and that appears to have been done wrong too. I always recommend then let someone decide...Cover Your Beeeehind.

Dieseltech · Apr 20, 2016

The head hardware does not need replaced, they are not torque to yield. They just need re-torqued when hot as Perkins recommends...

RedBarnNate · Apr 21, 2016

(quoted from post at 17:51:31 04/20/16) The head hardware does not need replaced, they are not torque to yield. They just need re-torqued when hot as Perkins recommends...

I agree with your statement, and I advised the customer of this....he still wanted new hardware...I said if he wants new hardware, we will put new hardware in for him.

ptfarmer · Apr 21, 2016

(quoted from post at 12:17:23 04/21/16)

(quoted from post at 17:51:31 04/20/16) The head hardware does not need replaced, they are not torque to yield. They just need re-torqued when hot as Perkins recommends...

Click to expand...

I agree with your statement, and I advised the customer of this....he still wanted new hardware...I said if he wants new hardware, we will put new hardware in for him.

When the customer gets what he wants after being advised of his options = a happy customer that will come back to you for other work in the future.

RedBarnNate · Apr 21, 2016

(quoted from post at 12:44:39 04/21/16)

(quoted from post at 12:17:23 04/21/16)

(quoted from post at 17:51:31 04/20/16) The head hardware does not need replaced, they are not torque to yield. They just need re-torqued when hot as Perkins recommends...

Click to expand...

I agree with your statement, and I advised the customer of this....he still wanted new hardware...I said if he wants new hardware, we will put new hardware in for him.

Click to expand...

When the customer gets what he wants after being advised of his options = a happy customer that will come back to you for other work in the future.

Exactly. This is why his tractor is receiving new studs and nuts

.

JBKINWA · Apr 22, 2016

I am dealing with this right now. Just because studs are not torque to yield doesn't mean someone didn't use a crappy torque wrench or the infamous click elbow in the past. Trying to reuse my head hardware I started stripping threads at 25 ft/lbs. These are fine treads and very easy to overtorque. To throw my opinion in, the customer is always right even if you try to give them the best advice and they disagree. One must be careful when deciding to NDT components if other machine work is also needed. Sometimes it's just better to replace it. These decisions directly influence the quality and reputation of your shop.

RedBarnNate · Apr 22, 2016

(quoted from post at 22:07:48 04/21/16) I am dealing with this right now. Just because studs are not torque to yield doesn't mean someone didn't use a crappy torque wrench or the infamous click elbow in the past. Trying to reuse my head hardware I started stripping threads at 25 ft/lbs. These are fine treads and very easy to overtorque. To throw my opinion in, the customer is always right even if you try to give them the best advice and they disagree. One must be careful when deciding to NDT components if other machine work is also needed. Sometimes it's just better to replace it. These decisions directly influence the quality and reputation of your shop.

I understand what you're saying and agree with you. This has been our policy over the years.

Massey 135 Coolant Leak from Cyl. Head

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